A Proper World Cup

[Uncle Rotter]

Not an unusual scenario in the US's case. You must be new.

The difference is that they've been ranked behind Slovakia, and Slovakia was invited to the World Cup.

 

[Trap Jesus]

It's difficult to really pinpoint a format when parity between countries seems to shift so often. I think the Olympic format is the closest they've got as 12 seems like a pretty solid number that the lower teams have the potential to challenge the top teams on a good day, but won't get blown out too badly when they play at their normal level. That being said, it's still stupid to have a round-robin stage where no one gets eliminated at the end of it. I think this type of format would be good, but alter it a bit so you're eliminating some teams after the round robin.

Still better than the "over-way-too-quick" format of the World Cup and the complete insanity of the World Championships though.

 

[Paxton Fettel]

The ideal format is the one from the old Canada Cups, except the playoff round.

Round robin : One single group of 6 teams.
Each team plays 5 games, one game against each opponent.

Playoff round : top 4 teams advance.
Every series is a best of 3.

 

[Trap Jesus]

The ideal format is the one from the old Canada Cups, except the playoff round.

Round robin : One single group of 6 teams.
Each team plays 5 games, one game against each opponent.

Playoff round : top 4 teams advance.
Every series is a best of 3.

I disagree with this quite strongly actually. To me, the ideal tournament is much more sprawling, but one that still makes every game meaningful. This basically equates to more teams + smaller round robin groups. The soccer World Cup to me is perfect (32 teams, 8 round robin groups, top 2 in each group advance to the single elimination playoff round), but hockey just doesn't have that many countries participating to justify anything close to that.

Ideally I'd like to see 16 teams with 4 round robin groups and 2 advancing from each group, but I don't think they're there yet to justify letting in Countries in that 12-16 range. Once you start getting to 6 or 8 teams in the same round robin, it's just waaaaay too many games in the round robin stage. A group of 4 makes every game meaningful, but 2 advancing still gives some leeway so that one bad game won't end one of the better team's run.

 

[JETZZZ]

I like most of what you are proposing. A couple of things tough:

- I think NHL rules would make for more exciting games when the tournament is played on NA ice. I mean the USA-CAN pre-WCH game was pretty epic (let's not talk about what happened afterwards). IIHF rules don't allow that same physical intensity and the Olympics are played under international rules already.

Also not sure about the goal crease violation rule. Do they still stop play if a player stands in the crease?

- I personally like the idea of a best of 3 series for the final with continuous OT. I think it would really give a playoff feel to that tournament. Imagine the best two teams potentially playing each other 4 times.

I prefer IIHF rules/ice myself, and I think one of the big selling points to the NHL owners of such a world cup would be how short it is (14 days tops, before season starts) so a quick preliminary round to get a couple games under belt/determine matchups in elimination round.
That being said, as long as no gimmick teams are involved and Olympic participation continues, I won't have any problems with NHL rules and a best of 3 finals.

As for the goal crease, I think play is blown dead if somebody is standing in the crease in IIHF

 

[robertmac43]

Continuous OT as a rule for elimination games

 

[Eye of Ra]

there is talent for 10 teams.

Sweden
Canada
USA
Russia
Czech
Finland
Slovakia
Germany
Switzerland
Denmark

 

[Zegras Zebra]

Here is my vision for a proper WCOH:

-A 16 team tournament (in theory a 32 team tournament would work too, but that's too many teams for most people's liking).
-4 groups of 4 teams selected from seeded pots like the FIFA World Cup so the groups would in theory be even in talent although one may end up being a "group of death."
-Each group plays the other three teams in the group once. The top two teams make it to the Quarter-Finals.
-Overtime in the group stage is settled in a shootout after 3 on 3 OT.
-Points in the group stage are based on the 3-2-1-0 model
-The Quarter and Semi-Finals are single elimination knockout with continuous 5 on 5 OT until goal is scored.
-The WCOH Final is a best of 3 series with continuous 5 on 5 OT until goal is scored. (Winner plays 8 games max.)
-The tournament will be rotated between Canada, the U.S.A and the rest of the world over a three tournament cycle.
-Each tournament will be held in a specific region within the country if taking place in Canada or the U.S.A (ex. California, Western Canada, North Eastern U.S.A, Quebec and Atlantic Canada, etc.) so one region doesn't risk becoming over saturated and it becomes a special event.
-At least 3 NHL sized arenas (15,000 +) will be used if held in North America, larger non-NHL sized facilities will be used to show games between teams with smaller fan bases.
-After the first tournament, Quarter-Finalists automatically qualify for the next WCOH. The remaining eight teams will qualify in pre-tournaments played in the 3 years leading up to the WCOH.
-Tournament will take place in late August/ early September.

Here is what an example WCOH would look like if played in California:

Arenas:
-Staples Center (18,230) - Los Angeles
-Honda Center (17,174) - Anaheim
-SAP Center (17,562) - San Jose
-Valley View Casino Center (12,920) - San Diego

Groups (Based on current IIHF Standings)

Group A Group B Group C Group D
-Canada -Russia -Sweden -Finland
-Switzerland -Germany -U.S.A -Czech Republic
-Norway -Slovakia -Belarus -France
-Kazakhstan -Slovenia -Denmark -Latvia

Quarter-Finals:
A1: Canada vs. D2: Czech Republic (Honda Center)
B1: Russia vs. C2: U.S.A (Staples Center)
C1: Sweden vs. B2: Slovakia (SAP Center)
D1: Finland vs. A2: Switzerland (Valley View Casino Center)

Semi-Finals:
A1: Canada vs. C2: U.S.A (Honda Center)
C1: Sweden vs. D1: Finland (SAP Center)

Final (Best of 3):
A1: Canada vs. C1: Sweden (Staples Center)

 

[Atas2000]

I think just about all of us would like to see a proper World Cup of Hockey but I guess some questions would have to be answered first.

1) If the NHL and IIHF were to work together to put this on, which rules would apply or would it depend on what nation is hosting?

2) Concern about overall quality of play: While there are many nations which have national teams(more than I certainly thought) outside of the powerhouses with NHL players the quality of play might be lacking.

3) How big of a tournament and when? What would be a good starting point for the #of teams? Are we talking 8,10,12 or more? Also when would be the best time to put on such a tournament, we all want the best players there representing our respective countries so during the NHL off season would be ideal but you also don't want it too close to the start of a new season.

4) Qualifying-When would qualifying be done for The World Cup, perhaps the year before?

There ist no World Cup under NHL rule.

Let's start there.

 

[Jez]

There ist no World Cup under NHL rule.

Let's start there.

99% of the World's best players play in the NHL though.

 

[Albatros]

99% of the World's best players play in the NHL though.

How many players does "World's best players" encompass and what is the geographical distribution of their origins?

 

[1Gold Standard]

I couldn't care less who organizes it and to whom the profits flow. There's enough cash to be made by all the parties involved, NHL/IIHF and the participating federations. Just organize the damn thing.

If the parties are going to squabble over % of the pie, who deserves what and why...then screw it.

As I wrote yesterday, give me a 8 game Summit Series between Canada v U.S. in 2022. The build up to this epic border clash would be amazing. and no doubt it would be an even a more entertaining 'take no prisoners' brand of hockey than any World Cup can provide. On every level Canada v USA are the only games that matter.

 

[Atas2000]

99% of the World's best players play in the NHL though.

Your 99% are a joke.

A vast majority of best football players play in the English Premier League. Now what? FIFA should give the World Cup to them?

That doesn't mean squat. A league can't claim the world for itself for the conflict of interests alone.

As long as it is a Whatever-NHL-Greatest Cup, I am fine with it. Canada Cupvwas fine back then.

 

[Jez]

Your 99% are a joke.

A vast majority of best football players play in the English Premier League. Now what? FIFA should give the World Cup to them?

That doesn't mean squat. A league can't claim the world for itself for the conflict of interests alone.

As long as it is a Whatever-NHL-Greatest Cup, I am fine with it. Canada Cupvwas fine back then.

I'm not saying they should claim it for themselves simply that it is understandable that the League which will provide the overwhelming majority of players – I guess that depends on how many countries you invite – can expect to be involved heavily in the organization of the event.

Your comparison to the EPL is off-base in that context. Only 16% of the players from the 2014 World Cup played in England (that included players from the championship and league one).

Also I'm not sure how many of the best players in the world actually play in the EPL. Germany, Spain and Portugal have dominated the international stage with few EPL players. I think 7 or 8 players who featured in the last WC final played in England (Germany vs Argentina).

PS: I also misread your original message and thought you meant NHL ruleS. Sorry about that.

 

[Jez]

How many players does "World's best players" encompass and what is the geographical distribution of their origins?

Let's say you have a tournament with 12 countries and 25 players per country. That's 300 players.

Now if you were to make a list of the 300 best hockey players in the world - without taking nationality into consideration - how many would be NHL players?

You might be able to make a case for a handful of Russian players (Datsyuk, Gusev, Kaprizov...) plus maybe Dahlin and a few D+1 guys like Tolvanen and Petersson. So maybe 99% is a bit exaggerated but 97% sounds fair?

I don't think it matters that the best players in world are from a few countries. They are still the best players in the world. And they play in the NHL.

Now I get that if you expand the WC to a dozen countries then you might get 40% of non-NHL players. But if it's played between the top 8 nations then dismissing the NHL doesn't make sense.

 

[Albatros]

So what you suggest is that the international rosters should be filled with leftover NHL Canadians because they're better than most of the German Olympic vice champions?

 

[Jez]

So what you suggest is that the international rosters should be filled with leftover NHL Canadians because they're better than most of the German Olympic vice champions?

Well if that's what you read... You seemed to ask me to clarify what I meant in regards to best players in the World playing in the NHL. My whole point was simply that the NHL needs to be involved for a world cup to be successful as they provide the vast majority of players. And most if not all of the stars. Can't do it without them, we've seen it with the Olympics.

 

[Spirit of 67]

In an ideal world.........

The IIHF would organize and run the tournament.
Play it in September.
Rotate the host countries.
Top 8 nations in. A play in or qualifying tourney could be played.
Play it every 4 years

The NHL can have their money maker every 4 years as well. But between the WCH. NHL would have to more properly name their tourney. I thoroughly enjoyed the last one. Just thought the name was inappropriate.

 

[Albatros]

Well if that's what you read... You seemed to ask me to clarify what I meant in regards to best players in the World playing in the NHL. My whole point was simply that the NHL needs to be involved for a world cup to be successful as they provide the vast majority of players. And most if not all of the stars. Can't do it without them, we've seen it with the Olympics.

Why not? The Olympics were as good as ever. Germany for one has only 3 players in the NHL that would significantly strengthen that team. It would mostly benefit the North Americans, not international hockey as a whole.

 

[Icedog2735]

This idea may be a bit out there and really not "feel" like one tournament but I think we can all agree that August/September, while really the only place on the calendar to fit the tournament, is far from ideal with players coming back from summer break and not in mid-season form, etc. So maybe this idea bridges that gap. Whichever size (10-12 team) group play takes place in August/September. The playoff round takes place instead of the All Star Game that season. If it is an 8-team playoff round then the QF can be Wednesday, SF on Friday, and Final on Sunday. In return for having more players possibly committed to the tournament, the PA gets a full week off for its "All Star break" that season. The NHL could still have its skills competition on Saturday night even. There could be 2 NHL sites selected for the games, ideally located near each other, with 1 hosting 2 QFs and a SF and the other hosting the other 2 QF, SF, Skills Comp, and Final. Perhaps the group play games could have more of a focus of being hosted in Europe or other sites. Teams could have the freedom to alter their roster based on injury, performance, etc. between September and January. It's an NHL event so the NHL could market the playoff round better throughout the lead up rather than having a WC Final while every fan really has their eye on their favorite team's season opener in October like the previous format. I love all hockey, whenever it's played, but I feel like this is a mini-tournament that I could really get excited about.

On a side note, there were rumors of a Ryder Cup style event with NA players facing European players as a potential NHL event. I could also see this as a fixture on the NHL calendar but instead of NA vs Europe, I would have USA play Canada. Perhaps you can add an event for the European players with mainland Europe playing Russia.

 

[NSHPreds1835]

I was thinking that for possible locations in the US/Canada that it would probably be best if the cities were in the same state/province so the possible cities I came up with were.

Pittsburgh-Philly
Toronto-Ottawa
Anaheim-LA-San Jose
Buffalo-NYC-NJ
Tampa-Sunrise
Edmonton-Calgary

 

[MNNumbers]

This idea may be a bit out there and really not "feel" like one tournament but I think we can all agree that August/September, while really the only place on the calendar to fit the tournament, is far from ideal with players coming back from summer break and not in mid-season form, etc. So maybe this idea bridges that gap. Whichever size (10-12 team) group play takes place in August/September. The playoff round takes place instead of the All Star Game that season. If it is an 8-team playoff round then the QF can be Wednesday, SF on Friday, and Final on Sunday. In return for having more players possibly committed to the tournament, the PA gets a full week off for its "All Star break" that season. The NHL could still have its skills competition on Saturday night even. There could be 2 NHL sites selected for the games, ideally located near each other, with 1 hosting 2 QFs and a SF and the other hosting the other 2 QF, SF, Skills Comp, and Final. Perhaps the group play games could have more of a focus of being hosted in Europe or other sites. Teams could have the freedom to alter their roster based on injury, performance, etc. between September and January. It's an NHL event so the NHL could market the playoff round better throughout the lead up rather than having a WC Final while every fan really has their eye on their favorite team's season opener in October like the previous format. I love all hockey, whenever it's played, but I feel like this is a mini-tournament that I could really get excited about.

On a side note, there were rumors of a Ryder Cup style event with NA players facing European players as a potential NHL event. I could also see this as a fixture on the NHL calendar but instead of NA vs Europe, I would have USA play Canada. Perhaps you can add an event for the European players with mainland Europe playing Russia.

I like this IceDog. It feels rather like the idea of Futbol's Champions' League arrangement, which is actually the playoffs of last year's national league winners. Play is interspersed through the year.

I keep coming back to something like this:
If the New WCOH takes place with any games during the NHL season, NHL will have to be compensated for it. I can't see NHL and IIHF cooperating on a tournament, because they really have little to do with each other. Hockey is unique in that even things like player transfers have no international governance because the NHL is such a large elephant compared to the other leagues. So, I believe any tournament would have to be NHL run. That's not BAD, in and of itself, but it does lend itself to a schedule like the one you propose.

I continue to go back to my original idea: 6 teams. CAN, USA, RUS, FIN, SWE, CZECH (6th slot may change over time).
The round robin is NOT a full round robin. It's 3 games apiece, with no nation playing both USA and CAN. Round robin used for seeding purposes only. That makes a 9-game round robin.
On your schedule, that's NOT a huge chunk of time. Maybe a week training camp, and a week to play the games. Places that could easily host the round robin portion would be:
BUF/TOR
PHI/PIT
MIN/CHI or MIN/WPG
LAK/ANA or LAK/ANA/SJS
VAN/SEA
TBL/FLO
NY/BOS
EDM/VAN
MTL/OTT...etc
There are LOTS of options. All you really need are 2 rinks and a week, or 3 rinks and 5 days.
Then, like you said: Replace the All-Star Game with the WC. You have 6 teams. You need 5 games.
Thurs: 1/4 finals. (2 games)
Fri eve: Skills competition
Sat 1:00 and 8:30: WC semis
Sun: Finals.
You sell tickets for 5 games. Players get the whole week off (maybe negotiate with the PA that this takes the place of the bye week in the schedule). Very little disruption.

 

[Calgarybrutalist]

8 team bracket, best of three series. Big 6 plus two qualifying countries.

 

[snipes]

Calgary and Edmonton hosting would be absolutely bonkers.

Every game would be in front of a packed house unlike Toronto.

 

[Burke the Legend]

The tourney should not just have a single host but games be spread around. Would cost a bit more in travel and lodgeing but you would get a lot more international buy-in and hype. They need to do stuff like this to improve things a bit over the old IIHF arrangements and win over fans.

You have two divisions, 5-6 teams each. One playing in North America, one in Europe. Playoffs are a division bracket, not crossover seeding with teams playing in countries actually involved in the games (unless two NA division teams are Euro). 1 vs 4, 2 vs 3. Then semi-finals are a best of 3 and final. NO SHOOTOUT.