A Proper World Cup

[NSHPreds1835]

I think just about all of us would like to see a proper World Cup of Hockey but I guess some questions would have to be answered first.

1) If the NHL and IIHF were to work together to put this on, which rules would apply or would it depend on what nation is hosting?

2) Concern about overall quality of play: While there are many nations which have national teams(more than I certainly thought) outside of the powerhouses with NHL players the quality of play might be lacking.

3) How big of a tournament and when? What would be a good starting point for the #of teams? Are we talking 8,10,12 or more? Also when would be the best time to put on such a tournament, we all want the best players there representing our respective countries so during the NHL off season would be ideal but you also don't want it too close to the start of a new season.

4) Qualifying-When would qualifying be done for The World Cup, perhaps the year before?

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[JackSlater]

They should copy the format of the 1996 World Cup in terms of tournament structure. No shootout. Qualifying games aren't realistic given that the NHL doesn't have an international break, but the IIHF rankings are sufficient for this purpose. Perhaps have a play-in game for the eighth spot.

 

[Jon Riley]

I would use the WHC results as a qualification criterium. Something like a ranking based on the previous 3/4 editions. 8 teams but I would not oppose 10, depending how long they would want the tournament to last.
European ice when in Europe, small ice when in NA, maybe in an alternate succession.
No stupid made up teams.

 

[GermanNuck]

Regarding 2)
A proper world cup should not make the amount of NHL players an criteria.
This is not the spirit of a world cup.
Nobody would ever think of excluding USA from soccer world cup because they have too many players playing in crappy MLS

 

[Zine]

The current olympic format would be ideal. 12 teams, 3 groups of 4. A play-in for the final 8 team elimination round.
The only issue I have is, with Bettman's participation, all elimination games would certainly need to be played in North America.

 

[JETZZZ]

2020 World Cup
-8 teams, no qualification, just use the top 8 nations ranked by IIHF by spring 2020.
-no gimmick teams, no age restrictions, just 8 national teams.
-International rules, on either NA or Olympic ice, depending where it will be
hosted each time (Not Toronto every time!)
-every 4 years between Olympic years, will probably have to be in September
again though.
-Like Olympic format except 2 groups of 4 teams. For preliminary round each team plays 3 games, 1 against
every other team in their group.
-every team makes 1/4 finals, are ranked by group performance. 1st plays 8th, 2nd plays 7th, etc.
-1/4 finals is 1 game elimination, winners play 1/2 finals
-1/2 finals is 1 game elimination, winners play final
-final is also 1 game elimination. Short tournament, only 4-6 games depending how far
you advance
-19 games total. 19 extra games of revenue split between the NHL and NHLPA. NHLPA uses
revenue from 2020 WCoH to pay travel/insurance costs for following Olympics in 2022.
-NHL owners allow players to go to Olympics as they dont have to foot the bill for costs anymore.
-NHL owners make 19 extra international games of revenue every 4 years, more than makes up
for skipping an all-star game every 4 years for Olympics.
-Best-on-best international hockey every 2 years for fans, NHL players get to go to Olympics, NHL
gets their own Olympic tournament with blackjack and hookers, everybody wins.

 

[Jez]

2020 World Cup
-8 teams, no qualification, just use the top 8 nations ranked by IIHF by spring 2020.
-no gimmick teams, no age restrictions, just 8 national teams.
-International rules, on either NA or Olympic ice, depending where it will be
hosted each time (Not Toronto every time!)
-every 4 years between Olympic years, will probably have to be in September
again though.
-Like Olympic format except 2 groups of 4 teams. For preliminary round each team plays 3 games, 1 against
every other team in their group.
-every team makes 1/4 finals, are ranked by group performance. 1st plays 8th, 2nd plays 7th, etc.
-1/4 finals is 1 game elimination, winners play 1/2 finals
-1/2 finals is 1 game elimination, winners play final
-final is also 1 game elimination. Short tournament, only 4-6 games depending how far
you advance
-19 games total. 19 extra games of revenue split between the NHL and NHLPA. NHLPA uses
revenue from 2020 WCoH to pay travel/insurance costs for following Olympics in 2022.
-NHL owners allow players to go to Olympics as they dont have to foot the bill for costs anymore.
-NHL owners make 19 extra international games of revenue every 4 years, more than makes up
for skipping an all-star game every 4 years for Olympics.
-Best-on-best international hockey every 2 years for fans, NHL players get to go to Olympics, NHL
gets their own Olympic tournament with blackjack and hookers, everybody wins.

I like most of what you are proposing. A couple of things tough:

- I think NHL rules would make for more exciting games when the tournament is played on NA ice. I mean the USA-CAN pre-WCH game was pretty epic (let's not talk about what happened afterwards). IIHF rules don't allow that same physical intensity and the Olympics are played under international rules already.

Also not sure about the goal crease violation rule. Do they still stop play if a player stands in the crease?

- I personally like the idea of a best of 3 series for the final with continuous OT. I think it would really give a playoff feel to that tournament. Imagine the best two teams potentially playing each other 4 times.

 

[1Gold Standard]

we all agree that a real World Cup minus the gimmicks is the way to go. Hosting rights are open to bidding to the various federations. I have no interest in seeing the NHL exploit Canadian fans for this every 4 years. so, please, wherever they stage this event in 2020 (if it happens) then somewhere other than Canada! Alternating N. America/Europe is the way to go.

Also, for the purposes of qualification, the OP has it right, IIHF ranking is how you do it... but for 2020 IIHF rankings in the spring of 2019 would have to apply, as sponsors/marketing depts. and the federations themselves need time to prepare, and qualifying in the spring of 2020 for a tournament in Sept. 2020 just isn't enough time.

I prefer 10-12 teams! but that's just me, if it has to be the Top 8, then the Top 8 it is.

If they can't pull this off, then our only alternative is to start pounding the drum for 2022. 2022 is the 50th. Anniversary of the original Summit Series Cold War on Ice.

I think another 8 game Summit Series is in order, but no point in making it a Canada-Russia series. been there, done that! and Russia is old news anyway.

A better option would be a 7 or 8 game Summit Series Canada vs. USA.

 

[VictorLustig]

I like most of what you are proposing. A couple of things tough:

- I think NHL rules would make for more exciting games when the tournament is played on NA ice. I mean the USA-CAN pre-WCH game was pretty epic (let's not talk about what happened afterwards). IIHF rules don't allow that same physical intensity and the Olympics are played under international rules already.

Also not sure about the goal crease violation rule. Do they still stop play if a player stands in the crease?

- I personally like the idea of a best of 3 series for the final with continuous OT. I think it would really give a playoff feel to that tournament. Imagine the best two teams potentially playing each other 4 times.

Really?

 

[Jez]

Really?

Yeah maybe that wasn't phrased correctly.

Fighting under IIHF rules results in a game misconduct. Attacking players can't stand in the goal crease.

Watching games played under both set of rules I always felt like there was less animosity and physicality after the whistle. I'm not saying that fighting is important in best on best but the possibility of dropping the gloves adds a dimension if teams are playing each other several times during the course of the tournament. Just my opinion.

 

[CharlestownChiefsESC]

Id love if they reverted back to the 96 format, 04 was too sterile and 16 was a joke. I wish they would have it in multiple cities though

 

[patnyrnyg]

10 teams.
2 pools of 5.
Top- 3 in each pool move on to knock-out with group winner getting bye to semis.
1 game eliminations.
Top-8 in IIHF rankings automatically in. 9th vs 12th, 10th vs 11th in a best-of-3 qualification for the last 2 spots the summer before.

With 10 teams participating and another 2 given a shot to qualify, it gives more of the smaller countries a chance without making it so big that we have too many blow-outs in the pool play.

My guess is the NHL/IIHF would want to make it a 16-team tourney, with 4 pools of 4, to maximize revenue.

Alternate sites between Europe and North America.

 

[Bear12Good]

we all agree that a real World Cup minus the gimmicks is the way to go. Hosting rights are open to bidding to the various federations. I have no interest in seeing the NHL exploit Canadian fans for this every 4 years. so, please, wherever they stage this event in 2020 (if it happens) then somewhere other than Canada! Alternating N. America/Europe is the way to go.

Also, for the purposes of qualification, the OP has it right, IIHF ranking is how you do it... but for 2020 IIHF rankings in the spring of 2019 would have to apply, as sponsors/marketing depts. and the federations themselves need time to prepare, and qualifying in the spring of 2020 for a tournament in Sept. 2020 just isn't enough time.

I prefer 10-12 teams! but that's just me, if it has to be the Top 8, then the Top 8 it is.

If they can't pull this off, then our only alternative is to start pounding the drum for 2022. 2022 is the 50th. Anniversary of the original Summit Series Cold War on Ice.

I think another 8 game Summit Series is in order, but no point in making it a Canada-Russia series. been there, done that! and Russia is old news anyway.

A better option would be a 7 or 8 game Summit Series Canada vs. USA.

What do you think about Russia-Sweden series? winner this series play series with winner Canada-USA series?

 

[MNNumbers]

Oh, wow......

Big questions here....

1- Who is actually putting on the tournament? If it's IIHF, then what's in it for the NHL? Use of video for promotional purposes? Would have to be, or NHL is not interested. If it's IIHF, how does that impact future Olympics? Bettman yesterday in an interview on TSN basically said that, under current arrangements, we are not interested in suspending our season for the Olympics. If IIHF sponsors a WCOH, they may want an Olympic commitment, and that's problematic, for sure. If it's NHL, then under what capacity does one speak of "National Teams"? I say that because, without IIHF involvement, the National Associations do not to be involved, so how does the NHL make sure players are available?

1a) - Thus, the answer we have is the fantasy world where, somehow, there is an agreement between IIHF and NHL to joint-sponsor this thing.

2- Once you've done that, the next question is: Where do you play? NHL will NOT be interested in playing in Europe, because attendance $$ will be light, so there isn't as much money to be made. The majority of the world's best players are in NoAm, so there will be a puch for the sake of the $$ to keep the WCOH on the west side of the Atlantic. Still, if this thing replaces the World Champs every so often, I think the National Associations in Europe might go for it, but there are hard negotiations to be had before you can ge there.

3- If you get there, it would be a great tournament no matter how you do it. us, it's a short tourney, no more than 2 weeks long, and whether you go for 8, 10 or 12 teams won't really matter.

Clearly, I think the obstacles between the IIHF and NHL are too large to be negotiated away, so that leaves us with something like the last one that the NHL sponsored, except perhaps with actual teams from 8 countries, although I don't know where you get players for European teams. In this case, because you have a limited player pool, and you may need to negotiate with the leagues in Euro countries for player availability, then I think you are looking at 8 teams max, and you might have to settle for 6, but 6 could work like this:
The big fish are the US and Canada. We are going to make a round robin portion that does NOT include everyone playing everyone because we don't have time.

So, everyone plays 3 games. Yes, 3.
Minnows play ONE of the big fish, and 2 of the other 3 minnows.
US and Canada play each other, and 2 of the minnows.
Example:
Game 1: US/Can; Swe/Rus; Fin/Czech
Game 2: US/Swe; Rus/Fin; Can/Czech
Game 3: US/Rus; Can/Fin; Czech/Swe

Now, rank according to records: 1-6.
Top 2 get byes into the semis.
1/4 finals: 10 min 5v5 OT, then shootout
1/2 finals: 20 min 5v5 OT, then shootout
Finals: NHL Playoff rules. No shootouts.

Everyone gets 4 games. Possibility of 6. Schedule favors the smaller nations, really. Set it up like this on the calendar:
Sat: 2 games of matchday 1
Sun: Other game of matchday 1
Mon: 1 game, between 2 teams who played Saturday
Tues: 1 game
Wed: 1 game
Thurs: OFF
Fri night: 1 game
Sat: 2 games
Sun: OFF
Mon: 1/4 final #1
Tues: 1/4 final #2
Wed: 1/2 final #1
Thur: 1/2 final #2
Sat Finals.

 

[1Gold Standard]

What do you think about Russia-Sweden series? winner this series play series with winner Canada-USA series?

I'd prefer to see a legit World Cup + NHL Olympics, but if that can't be worked out, then I'd like to see a Canada-USA Summit Series as these are the only 2 teams that play the most entertaining brand of hockey.

If Russia wants to find a dance partner to have their own tournament, then have at it. I don't care and am not interested in winner v winner match up after that. there is only so much room in the calendar to play these tournaments and players do have a NHL season to play and a families to spend time with. they can't be playing regular season games/tournaments 12 months a year.

 

[tony d]

A 16 team event with qualification for the final 8 spots which would be televised. This would show people just how far reaching the game is. Based upon current IIHF rankings here would be the matches:

Norway/Ukraine
Slovakia/Japan
Belarus/Great Britian
Latvia/Hungary
France/Poland
Denmark/Italy
Slovenia/Kazakhstan
South Korea/Austria

The top 8 current teams (Canada, Russia, Sweden, Czech Republic, Germany, United States, Switzerland) automatically qualify with the other 8 countries playing a play in game.

4 groups of 4 teams each, top 2 teams in each group make playoffs.

They want a true World Cup, have more countries able to qualify.

 

[weklof]

12 teams, top 8 directly qualified, the other 4 play qualification playoff the year before (like for the Olympics). 2 groups of 6 teams, top 4 qualifies for quarterfinals. IIHF rules.

 

[Machinehead]

If we're doing a proper World Cup, I want real countries.

Europe and u23 were fun, but this is supposed to be a world-class international tournament. It shouldn't feel like an exhibition.

One of my favorite parts of the FIFA World Cup is the random ass teams that qualify. And yeah, they usually suck, but it's part of the pageantry of the event.

 

[Bear12Good]

A 16 team event with qualification for the final 8 spots which would be televised. This would show people just how far reaching the game is. Based upon current IIHF rankings here would be the matches:

Norway/Ukraine
Slovakia/Japan
Belarus/Great Britian
Latvia/Hungary
France/Poland
Denmark/Italy
Slovenia/Kazakhstan
South Korea/Austria

The top 8 current teams (Canada, Russia, Sweden, Czech Republic, Germany, United States, Switzerland) automatically qualify with the other 8 countries playing a play in game.

4 groups of 4 teams each, top 2 teams in each group make playoffs.

They want a true World Cup, have more countries able to qualify.

Agreed.

Wcup16 has been big joke

 

[MaxV]

16 is too many imo, but 8 is ... I don't know, seems kind of wrong to exclude nations that are trying to grow their programs.

 

[um]

The current olympic format would be ideal. 12 teams, 3 groups of 4. A play-in for the final 8 team elimination round.
The only issue I have is, with Bettman's participation, all elimination games would certainly need to be played in North America.

if you do two groups of 6 or 5 than you can have one divisions playoffs in NA

 

[Uncle Rotter]

Speaking of IIHF rankings, if Germany finishes ahead of the US at this years WHC, they will move ahead of them in the rankings. Just putting that out there.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

Regarding the IIHF, there is no way they would run a tournament that would detract from the World Hockey Championsips.

 

[torniojaws]

Norway/Ukraine
Slovakia/Japan
Belarus/Great Britian
Latvia/Hungary
France/Poland
Denmark/Italy
Slovenia/Kazakhstan
South Korea/Austria

The top 8 current teams (Canada, Russia, Sweden, Czech Republic, Germany, United States, Switzerland) automatically qualify with the other 8 countries playing a play in game.

Finland is disqualified?

 

[saskganesh]

Speaking of IIHF rankings, if Germany finishes ahead of the US at this years WHC, they will move ahead of them in the rankings. Just putting that out there.

Not an unusual scenario in the US's case. You must be new.