Value of: A goal-scoring winger to SJ

Juxtaposer

Outro: Divina Comedia
Dec 21, 2009
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I cannot say about what other Sharks fans feel but I think Doug Wilson should make all of our prospects (except for Meier and Labanc) available as well as our 1st round picks for the next 2 years. Obviously what gets packaged up depends on the return but I think we have enough in our prospect pool now that we can do this for the next couple of years. Also, like I said earlier, I am ok with even trading Meier and Labanc but the return has to be really really good.

And if we really wanted, we can always trade to get picks back too.

Making our 2017 1st available is okay since we are all but assure to make the playoffs. Making our 2018 1st available as well would be dumb as hell since we don't know if Marleau and Thornton will re-sign (or if they'll be useful players) and literally any given team can miss the playoffs with some bad luck.

And besides, giving up 2 1sts for JVR is not smart. JVR's contract has been the pride of Trade Forums Leafs Fans for years, but now there's only two more years on it after this one and JVR is not exactly young anymore.

I'd assume the Leafs would be looking at something around Braun but I could see how that would be a non-starter

In a vacuum I'm sure something fair could be agreed upon, but yeah, trading half of your shut-down pair as you head into the playoffs and hopefully go far doesn't seem smart.
 

JetsFan815

Replacement Level Poster
Jan 16, 2012
19,271
24,516
To San Jose: Blake Wheeler, he's the 3rd highest producing RW in the NHL in the last 6 years only behind Kane and Kessell. Signed for 2 more years after this at a team friendly dollar amount

To Winnipeg:
Timo Meir
2017 1st
2017 2nd
2018 1st

Jets open to retaining salary to make it work
 

Albus Dumbledore

Master of Death
Mar 28, 2015
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Maybe something around Bergman+DeMelo could work for jvr(retention/cap dump could be worked in as well as picks/prospects on either side if need be)?
Also Lol Jvr could never return Timo Meier+.
 
Last edited:

Fistfullofbeer

Moderator
May 9, 2011
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Whidbey Island, WA
Making our 2017 1st available is okay since we are all but assure to make the playoffs. Making our 2018 1st available as well would be dumb as hell since we don't know if Marleau and Thornton will re-sign (or if they'll be useful players) and literally any given team can miss the playoffs with some bad luck.

And besides, giving up 2 1sts for JVR is not smart. JVR's contract has been the pride of Trade Forums Leafs Fans for years, but now there's only two more years on it after this one and JVR is not exactly young anymore.

In a vacuum I'm sure something fair could be agreed upon, but yeah, trading half of your shut-down pair as you head into the playoffs and hopefully go far doesn't seem smart.

Oh absolutely I am not saying that we give up 2 1st for JVR. What we give up is going to be dictated by the return. I am fairly certain that even without Jumbo and Marleau we are a playoff team next year. It is highly likely that we get atleast one of them play on our roster next season.
 

Fistfullofbeer

Moderator
May 9, 2011
30,441
9,110
Whidbey Island, WA
To San Jose: Blake Wheeler, he's the 3rd highest producing RW in the NHL in the last 6 years only behind Kane and Kessell. Signed for 2 more years after this at a team friendly dollar amount

To Winnipeg:
Timo Meir
2017 1st
2017 2nd
2018 1st

Jets open to retaining salary to make it work

That is way too much to give up for Wheeler. If we give that much I want a younger RFA type player coming back.
 

CanadienShark

Registered User
Dec 18, 2012
37,930
11,305
Killorn isn't out of the question. I hardly know anything about your farm, though.

Outside of Roy and Goldobin, I'd probably consider a deal around anyone not on the NHL roster. Obviously the Sharks add. We don't have enough high end prospects to offer better, and we can't offer NHL wingers outside of guys like Ward or Wingels, who obviously aren't interesting to you. Realistically, I don't think we'd be willing to pay the price for Killorn.
 

Randy Randerson

Registered User
Jul 28, 2016
10,637
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Hamilton
Making our 2017 1st available is okay since we are all but assure to make the playoffs. Making our 2018 1st available as well would be dumb as hell since we don't know if Marleau and Thornton will re-sign (or if they'll be useful players) and literally any given team can miss the playoffs with some bad luck.

And besides, giving up 2 1sts for JVR is not smart. JVR's contract has been the pride of Trade Forums Leafs Fans for years, but now there's only two more years on it after this one and JVR is not exactly young anymore.

I can see why you guys wouldn't do it with the uncertainty, but your 2017 1st isn't all that attractive being that you're a top 10 team by points % and the defending western conference champs.

If you thought that you were making runs in 2017 & 2018 then those two 1sts is a fair ask based on previous trades of similar guys in rental situations - Ladd, Lucic, Ryan

If JVR finds himself on the block, which probably depends on where we sit and how we're trending at the TDL, there's probably a big market for him with the contract you mentioned and our willingness to retain/take back salary

As for the "young" thing...27 isn't exactly old either
 

2020 Cup Champions

Formerly Sila v Kucherove
Nov 26, 2013
14,774
4,404
To San Jose: Blake Wheeler, he's the 3rd highest producing RW in the NHL in the last 6 years only behind Kane and Kessell. Signed for 2 more years after this at a team friendly dollar amount

To Winnipeg:
Timo Meir
2017 1st
2017 2nd
2018 1st

Jets open to retaining salary to make it work

:amazed:

Wheeler is about the best offer you can realistically hope for, I think.

With respect to OP's earlier reply: Killorn is going to be expansion bait for us barring any other moves, so if we can squeeze some value out of him all the better. I'm not going to say Goldobin is necessary, but broadly speaking the Lightning could use going forward:
  • Cap space
  • ED exempt non-trivial prospects/players
  • Puck moving defenseman that aren't methuselahs, bonus for RHD
  • Picks work if they're the right ones

I'm under no illusion that Killorn is going to fetch Braun or that you're looking to move him, so we needn't go there. I'd say DeMelo is of interest, but is he ED exempt?
 

Revelation

Registered User
Aug 15, 2016
5,298
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Why no Vanek? He's PPG this year, a goal scoring winger who has a decade of proven production behind him, good net presence. Cheap enough that SJ can add him without tweaking the cap and good fit with both Thornton and Couture. No reason to exclude him unless you hate his guts for what he did.
 

CanadienShark

Registered User
Dec 18, 2012
37,930
11,305
Nash/possibly at half available for acceptable cap dump and ELC D prospects.

another option:
Zuc + Stepan
for
Couture, Bergman, cap dump

or
Pirri + NYR 4th
for
SJ1st

any of these?

Bern... That first deal honestly favours SJ. Couture is my second favourite player in the league and I'd happily take this. The difference between Stepan and Couture is obvious, but Zucarello more than makes up the gap.
 

Juxtaposer

Outro: Divina Comedia
Dec 21, 2009
48,064
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Bay Area
Maybe something around Bergman+DeMelo could work for jvr(retention/cap dump could be worked in as well as picks/prospects on either side if need be)?
Also Lol Jvr could never return Timo Meier+.

I'd probably do that. Sharks have Burns and Braun locked up so we're not in dire need of a young RHD to groom. If we could send Wingels back, it'd be good. Wingels is definitely a solid 4th liner and he's a real character dude, so he's not exactly a cap dump, but he doesn't have value and would be moved for salary reasons.

To San Jose: Blake Wheeler, he's the 3rd highest producing RW in the NHL in the last 6 years only behind Kane and Kessell. Signed for 2 more years after this at a team friendly dollar amount

To Winnipeg:
Timo Meir
2017 1st
2017 2nd
2018 1st

Jets open to retaining salary to make it work

Wheeler is an absolutely incredible player and he'd be amazing. What you posted is probably a good deal, but it just hurts to think about giving up the equivalent of four straight 1st rounders (Meier, traded our 2016 1st). Plus, we definitely don't have a 2nd rounder until like 2019, ugh. :shakehead

I can see why you guys wouldn't do it with the uncertainty, but your 2017 1st isn't all that attractive being that you're a top 10 team by points % and the defending western conference champs.

If you thought that you were making runs in 2017 & 2018 then those two 1sts is a fair ask based on previous trades of similar guys in rental situations - Ladd, Lucic, Ryan

If JVR finds himself on the block, which probably depends on where we sit and how we're trending at the TDL, there's probably a big market for him with the contract you mentioned and our willingness to retain/take back salary

As for the "young" thing...27 isn't exactly old either

I'm by no means calling JVR old. Just that his age isn't a particularly attractive thing about him anymore. I would say the same thing about Couture.

If I felt sure that the Sharks would make the playoffs in 2018, then I agree it would be a fair ask. But gutting our future for a player that could walk in two years doesn't sit right with me. I think it's likely that the Sharks make the playoffs in 2018-- I personally believe that both Thornton and Marleau will stick around, but they (especially Marleau) may not. But trading a 1st rounder a year and a half before that draft has disaster written all over it.

Why no Vanek? He's PPG this year, a goal scoring winger who has a decade of proven production behind him, good net presence. Cheap enough that SJ can add him without tweaking the cap and good fit with both Thornton and Couture. No reason to exclude him unless you hate his guts for what he did.

I said no Vanek because I've seen things like "Vanek for a 1st" thrown around and that's insane. Vanek was cooked last year and a half a season of good production doesn't change things for me. If you're offering him for a 4th rounder, I'd obviously be interested. But otherwise, I think there are better targets.
 

Randy Randerson

Registered User
Jul 28, 2016
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Hamilton
I'm by no means calling JVR old. Just that his age isn't a particularly attractive thing about him anymore. I would say the same thing about Couture.

If I felt sure that the Sharks would make the playoffs in 2018, then I agree it would be a fair ask. But gutting our future for a player that could walk in two years doesn't sit right with me. I think it's likely that the Sharks make the playoffs in 2018-- I personally believe that both Thornton and Marleau will stick around, but they (especially Marleau) may not. But trading a 1st rounder a year and a half before that draft has disaster written all over it.

That's fair, we've been there and it hurts when the worst case scenario becomes reality

I could see something along the lines of Goldobin+2017 1st being of interest if JVR hit the block too. Looks like he's doing well in the AHL but at least wouldn't hurt the current roster
 

Albus Dumbledore

Master of Death
Mar 28, 2015
9,020
2,672
I'd probably do that. Sharks have Burns and Braun locked up so we're not in dire need of a young RHD to groom. If we could send Wingels back, it'd be good. Wingels is definitely a solid 4th liner and he's a real character dude, so he's not exactly a cap dump, but he doesn't have value and would be moved for salary reasons.



Wheeler is an absolutely incredible player and he'd be amazing. What you posted is probably a good deal, but it just hurts to think about giving up the equivalent of four straight 1st rounders (Meier, traded our 2016 1st). Plus, we definitely don't have a 2nd rounder until like 2019, ugh. :shakehead



I'm by no means calling JVR old. Just that his age isn't a particularly attractive thing about him anymore. I would say the same thing about Couture.

If I felt sure that the Sharks would make the playoffs in 2018, then I agree it would be a fair ask. But gutting our future for a player that could walk in two years doesn't sit right with me. I think it's likely that the Sharks make the playoffs in 2018-- I personally believe that both Thornton and Marleau will stick around, but they (especially Marleau) may not. But trading a 1st rounder a year and a half before that draft has disaster written all over it.



I said no Vanek because I've seen things like "Vanek for a 1st" thrown around and that's insane. Vanek was cooked last year and a half a season of good production doesn't change things for me. If you're offering him for a 4th rounder, I'd obviously be interested. But otherwise, I think there are better targets.


sounds good, i know jvr is rental ish player for you guys, but dude is speculated to earn about high 5's or low 6's on his next contract semi to long term.
im thinking, 5.75x 6 or 6.25x4, along the lines of that if you can afford him after his current contract.
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
27,836
3,785
Da Big Apple
Nash/possibly at half available for acceptable cap dump and ELC D prospects.

another option:
Zuc + Stepan
for
Couture, Bergman, cap dump

or
Pirri + NYR 4th
for
SJ1st

any of these?

I am high enough on Couture that I would not trade him for Duchene (most SJ fans would). But I really like Zuc. I am pretty sure I would do that one.

... I'd do the first one, **** no to the second one. I'd be interested in Nash if we could make it fit under the cap and he wasn't too costly. ...

Bern... That first deal honestly favours SJ. Couture is my second favourite player in the league and I'd happily take this. The difference between Stepan and Couture is obvious, but Zucarello more than makes up the gap.

Thank you all.
I assume the cap dump is either Wingels or Karlsson

will try to have an improved version of offer 2 by some point tom.
 

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