Value of: #9 plus (NYR) for #5 (ARZ)

[haveandare]

I just hope the Rangers don't go off the board like they did with last years 7OA.
I'd be happy with Wahlstrom early and Sandin and Merkley later.

The Andersson pick looks better and better to me since the draft.

 

[Shootertooter]

The Andersson pick looks better and better to me since the draft.

Andersson is pretty solid overall but I don't think he is going to be much of a difference maker.
I hope I am wrong and he becomes a top 2 center.

 

[TGWL]

The Andersson pick looks better and better to me since the draft.

He was picked at #7.
I think you can make the argument for Mittelstadt, Glass, maybe Necas (who dropped a little), and Vilardi being picked ahead of him. Guys who had a good year like Tolvanen and Thomas shouldn't be compared. Even if they end up better, they were much later picks.

I think at this point I'd rather take my chances on Mittelstadt.

 

[haveandare]

He was picked at #7.
I think you can make the argument for Mittelstadt, Glass, maybe Necas (who dropped a little), and Vilardi being picked ahead of him. Guys who had a good year like Tolvanen and Thomas shouldn't be compared. Even if they end up better, they were much later picks.

I think at this point I'd rather take my chances on Mittelstadt.

Glass was taken at 6 by Vegas, I wanted him going into the draft though too and would have liked him over Andersson.

I've had the Mittelstadt conversation on here a bunch. Simply put, I think he's a risky pick compared to Andersson, and NYR took their risky pick on Chytil, which worked out. I think taking a safe player like Andersson at 7 helped take a swing on Chytil later. A team in NYR's position can't afford to walk away from a first round without a good NHLer and prior to the draft Mittlestadt hadn't proven anything at a level comparable to guys like Andersson in the SHL and Glass in the WHL. Casey still hasn't proven much at a high level over a significant sample size - did well but not incredibly in NCAA, did really well over 7 games at the WJC, looked pretty good in 6 NHL games.

Vilardi, I don't know. I don't think it's wise in 2017 to use a pick like 7OA on a guy who everyone agrees has a skating issue. Yeah, he can fix it, and yes Andersson isn't a speedster either, but the game is getting faster and faster and NYR very rarely have a pick that high, I get not using it on Vilardi.

Necas I would have been happy with also.

 

[domaug]

2 firsts and Vlad? To move 4 spots in a crapshoot draft class??? Yikes.

they aren't moving up 4 spots in this scenario. they're moving up 21 spots technically from their later picks.

 

[TGWL]

Glass was taken at 6 by Vegas, I wanted him going into the draft though too and would have liked him over Andersson.

I've had the Mittelstadt conversation on here a bunch. Simply put, I think he's a risky pick compared to Andersson, and NYR took their risky pick on Chytil, which worked out. I think taking a safe player like Andersson at 7 helped take a swing on Chytil later. A team in NYR's position can't afford to walk away from a first round without a good NHLer and prior to the draft Mittlestadt hadn't proven anything at a level comparable to guys like Andersson in the SHL and Glass in the WHL. Casey still hasn't proven much at a high level over a significant sample size - did well but not incredibly in NCAA, did really well over 7 games at the WJC, looked pretty good in 6 NHL games.

Vilardi, I don't know. I don't think it's wise in 2017 to use a pick like 7OA on a guy who everyone agrees has a skating issue. Yeah, he can fix it, and yes Andersson isn't a speedster either, but the game is getting faster and faster and NYR very rarely have a pick that high, I get not using it on Vilardi.

Necas I would have been happy with also.

You're right, I had it in my memory at 9 for glass for some reason.

 

[rt]

Andersson was a reach but seems like a great pick as a semi-neutral fan (it was our pick after all ).

 

[One Winged Angel]

they aren't moving up 4 spots in this scenario. they're moving up 21 spots technically from their later picks.

Yes, this has already been addressed if you checked the comments after and I'm still not giving up 2 1sts to move up and still not be in the top-3, especially in this year's draft class, which is pretty wide open.

Sorry, but it isn't a plausible deal for the Rangers. Not saying that it is for Arizona, but there's no way I give all of that up to move to 5, when the players who are more likely to be franchise talents are gone by then.

The Rangers don't have a ton of organizational depth right now. They would be better served holding onto their picks, especially considering that there's a good chance that player that will go at 5 will not be significantly better than what they'll pick at 9. So why give up a boatload to move up and have another top-10 pick when the difference between 5 and 26 is not as great as it would be in other years?

I've seen one pick moved, but I've never seen multiple 1sts.

 

[domaug]

Yes, this has already been addressed if you checked the comments after and I'm still not giving up 2 1sts to move up and still not be in the top-3, especially in this year's draft class, which is pretty wide open.

Sorry, but it isn't a plausible deal for the Rangers. Not saying that it is for Arizona, but there's no way I give all of that up to move to 5, when the players who are more likely to be franchise talents are gone by then.

The Rangers don't have a ton of organizational depth right now. They would be better served holding onto their picks, especially considering that there's a good chance that player that will go at 5 will not be significantly better than what they'll pick at 9. So why give up a boatload to move up and have another top-10 pick when the difference between 5 and 26 is not as great as it would be in other years?

I've seen one pick moved, but I've never seen multiple 1sts.

idk, feel how you want but i kind of disagree with your feelings on that offer.

 

[haveandare]

You're right, I had it in my memory at 9 for glass for some reason.

I wish he was there at 7, I think he's going to be a really good player very soon.

 

[haveandare]

Andersson was a reach but seems like a great pick as a semi-neutral fan (it was our pick after all ).

Agreed, looked like a reach at the time but is looking more justified as time passes. If he can be a Drury-like player who can do everything and score too, that'd be huge.

 

[One Winged Angel]

idk, feel how you want but i kind of disagree with your feelings on that offer.

That's the lovely thing about this site, differing opinions.

I'd just like to see examples in recent history in which a team moved 2 first rounders to move up within the first round. I can't remember any and I don't see the Rangers being willing to do so.

Time will tell though. I'll be there in Dallas covering it for the radio station that I work for, so if I hear anything on the floor, maybe I can relay it in the draft threads before it happens if I'm lucky enough lol.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

they aren't moving up 4 spots in this scenario. they're moving up 21 spots technically from their later picks.

huh? Read the title of this thread

 

[domaug]

huh? Read the title of this thread

the offer the person i quoted was responding to was 26th + 28th + Namestnikov or whoever. read the posts.

 

[bernmeister]

the offer the person i quoted was responding to was 26th + 28th + Namestnikov or whoever. read the posts.

It's a balancing act.
2 picks + player vs 1 pick + 2 players

And either you wanna stand pat or you want to gamble on a higher selection.

We can keep a later 1st. if we are willing to pay the price.
But also, AZ wants to go for it more while it needs at least something late. The structure of our offer has to work for them also.

I revise my offer at post 39, by deleting prospect Wood since traded.
He was a freebie throw in.

26OA + Pionk + Namest.
for
5OA

Obviously, AZ wants even more F help and Galch + Namest looks like it could be significant for them. It would hurt to lose Pionk but he commands value as an actual RD with poise and this is a 1 step backward 2 steps forward scenario. Also it allows to keep 9OA which will be essential for Montreal 3OA

 

[domaug]

I'm sorry but this is horrible for Arizona. why would they do that?

 

[bernmeister]

We brought in immediate help last year by trading the 7th OA for starting goaltender and a 2C. Our biggest holes on the roster are a true first pairing RD and a 1C, and we aren't going to land either of those without giving up an exorbitant amount of young talent and the 5th OA. I'm sure OEL was well aware of this during negotiations and indicated his willingness to resign anyway to a team-friendly deal.

There are ways to find immediate help for our young core without giving up a top five pick.

I'm sorry but this is horrible for Arizona. why would they do that?

I get the feeling IPreferPi has a correct pulse on this, and I did not notice dissent from 'yotes fans.

Accordingly, 2 guys and a late pick is enough overpayment for them to surrender 5OA, and given the currency used, would still benefit Rangers after 1-2 years development by our selection.

We accommodated Yzerman with JTM for Namest,, we are not sure exactly what he is, we can represent he has track record of scoring with high end talent.

Pionk hurts a lot more. But if ya wanna make an omelette you have to break some eggs. Pionk projects as reliable, consistent, heady; but spectacular? Possible not likely.

This is a very big gamble. NY may be better off overall keeping more pieces. But we also need more difference makers. Higher the draft slot, the better odds to get that. Since AZ has developed, and turning the corner now wants max competition and is ready to splurge, this is a win for them. They might get a single better D or a single better F, but this shores them up at 2 positions simultaneously, helping with depth.

 

[Shootertooter]

I see both Skjei and Pionk as the future of the Rangers blueline, that you keep trying to trade both away for picks is disturbing to me.

 

[PensandCaps]

Is it really worth losing assets to move up a few spots? No.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

I see both Skjei and Pionk as the future of the Rangers blueline, that you keep trying to trade both away for picks is disturbing to me.

But we have 4 LD prospects!!! *sigh*

 

[bernmeister]

I see both Skjei and Pionk as the future of the Rangers blueline, that you keep trying to trade both away for picks is disturbing to me.

Proportion.
Not looking to give either away.
Trying to add to Skjei for 3OA. Acknowledge that.
Trying to add to Pionk for more 1st replacing 9OA if we move that to go higher. Acknowledge that.

I acknowledge you may be right, b'c it is a crapshoot, and we don't KNOW for CERTAIN how good these picks will be.
But IMO it is worth the chance to accelerate upgrade of team.

 

[bernmeister]

But we have 4 LD prospects!!! *sigh*

Sigh on.
We can just keep an excess in one area, or we can move the established talent we have in that area to other areas of need. No, we can't keep the guys you like and trade the prospects b'c the prospects are not yet established so their trade value is a lot less.

Having gone there, the next ? is if this deep draft is the best likely marketplace to repurpose those vet assets? Yes.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Sigh on.
We can just keep an excess in one area, or we can move the established talent we have in that area to other areas of need. No, we can't keep the guys you like and trade the prospects b'c the prospects are not yet established so their trade value is a lot less.

Having gone there, the next ? is if this deep draft is the best likely marketplace to repurpose those vet assets? Yes.

NHL GMs dont move established talent because of a few unproven prospects. It's something that only happens in your fantasy land.

 

[Shootertooter]

Proportion.
Not looking to give either away.
Trying to add to Skjei for 3OA. Acknowledge that.
Trying to add to Pionk for more 1st replacing 9OA if we move that to go higher. Acknowledge that.

I acknowledge you may be right, b'c it is a crapshoot, and we don't KNOW for CERTAIN how good these picks will be.
But IMO it is worth the chance to accelerate upgrade of team.

I'd really like to have the 3OA, but I'd prefer to give up picks for it rather than a guy I see as McD's replacement.

 

[Bluto]

With OEL agreeing to a deal, did he get assurances that the team is going to be players for major improvements now, not in 2 years when whoever they get at 5 may help.

I could see a deal for 5 that gets them now help without requiring a top 10 selection in return.

I think the Yotes motivation has changed somewhat over the last few weeks (as OEL negotiations progressed)

Zuccs, Spooner and the TB 1st for 5OA

massive overpay from NYR.
Zucc has the same value if not more than Stepan did. No way in hell Arizona gets 2 50 point players and a first for a first.