PGT: 9/20 - Canada vs USA - Canada 4 United States 2 FINAL - USA ELIMINATED

[Chet Manley]

Not going to rag on the USA players, sometimes teams don't get it together in short order and good opposition can make you look bad. One note; Tortorella's megalomania doesn't seem to fly for long with vet NHL players. Could probably still be an excellent junior coach, with an ever revolving roster of powerless children.

 

[Scotty B]

Did you read the post I was replying to?

It's silly to assume that Americans aren't good at hockey or never will be due to "culture".

An American just won the Art Ross for the firs time.
A kid raised in the desert was just drafted 1st OA.
Players like Jones, Gostisbehere, Demko are coming out of non-traditional markets.
HS hockey is growing rapidly in California.

There's an undeniable talent gap at the moment, and that's not something that's going to change in 4 or 8 years. But a country with 300M+ people doesn't need the passionate culture of Canada or Finland to produce talented players. Besides plenty of northern states are passionate about the game.

Yeah I jumped the gun there Yank...My Bad...Peace Out..

 

[jj cale]

man, Canada with 3 fluke bounce goals...

US came out flying, but lucky bounces got Canada quick two goals and demoralized the Americans..

If not for those goals, it would have been 1-1 (US had one lucky goal too) and then anybody could have won...

Very lucky day for the Canadians

You couldn't have watched much of that game.

Is it so hard to give Canada some credit?

 

[EON]

I've read and read and read about Corsi, and I still see a chart like this and I don't know exactly what it indicates. What are this numbers pointing out?

It basically indicates 5v5 shot differential when that player was on the ice.

 

[Haj]

The leadership of Team USA are ****ing morons.

John Torotrella is ****ing moron.

Teams shouldn't be built to defeat one specfic team, which they wouldn't likely do anway.

They should have built Team USA around Kane, other skilled forwards and defensemen that can actually move the puck. Its basically a glorified exibhition tournament, get good players, play uptempo hockey.

Why not a team like this ?

Coach: Mike Sullivan

Patrick Kane - Joe Pavelski - T.J Oshie
Blake Wheler - Nick Bonino - Phil Kessel
Max Pacioretty - Paul Stasny -Zach Parise
Brandon Saad - Tyler Johnson - Kyle Okposo

Justin Faulk - Jon Carlson
Kevin Shattenkirk - Ryan Suter
Keith Yandle - Dustin Byfuglien

Alt: Derek Stepan, Matt Niskanen, Kyle Palmieri

 

[tmg]

It basically indicates 5v5 shot differential when that player was on the ice.

Shot attempt differential. The count isn't based on shots in the traditional shot-on-goal sense, but shot attempts (which includes blocked shots and missed shots).

 

[AvsGuy]

It basically indicates 5v5 shot differential when that player was on the ice.

Shot attempt differential. The count isn't based on shots in the traditional shot-on-goal sense, but shot attempts (which includes blocked shots and missed shots).

So a quick look at Vlasic being about +12 and Carlson being -10 tells me they played very opposite games in a puck possession/play driving sense? That helps actually.

 

[AvsGuy]

Are you suggesting that because some (admittedly, a lot) of American citizens prefer other sports, the players on their national teams don't give 100% effort? That sounds ... like a reach to put it mildly.

And yet it seems fairly consistent with all observable results, doesn't it.

 

[Scotty B]

The leadership of Team USA are ****ing morons.

John Torotrella is ****ing moron.

Teams shouldn't be built to defeat one specfic team, which they wouldn't likely do anway.

They should have built Team USA around Kane, other skilled forwards and defensemen that can actually move the puck. Its basically a glorified exibhition tournament, get good players, play uptempo hockey.

Why not a team like this ?



Coach: Mike Sullivan

Patrick Kane - Joe Pavelski - T.J Oshie
Blake Wheler - Nick Bonino - Phil Kessel
Max Pacioretty - Paul Stasny -Zach Parise
Brandon Saad - Tyler Johnson - Kyle Okposo

Justin Faulk - Jon Carlson
Kevin Shattenkirk - Ryan Suter
Keith Yandle - Dustin Byfuglien

Alt: Derek Stepan, Matt Niskanen, Kyle Palmieri

Brandon Saad plays for the Young Guns, he wasn't available

 

[habtastic]

A couple of thoughts on not just the game, but the reactions:

- The US fans must be disappointed, and only a small minority think that they lost because of bad luck, so there's really no joy in gloating over a rivalry game

- That said, now that I'm watching in the States and on ESPN, the tournament has been billed non-stop as a pulpit for propaganda regarding how amazing this US team is (was), and how they were built to beat Canada. The number of times that was repeated (at least on ESPN and the NHL Network, the latter which I thought would be neutral) was staggering. Best of all was the non-stop harping about 1 friggin win in 1996! They brought in Hull, Chelios (who were actually fun for commentary), Doug Weight with his ring, talked about Amonte all the time, and never made ANY significant mention that there HAS been a WC since 1996, and that the US didn't do that well. To say nothing of the defeats that they have suffered at the Olympics (I'll leave out the World Championships cuz nobody has all their players), directly at the hands of Canada. So, while I get the hype of the matchup, there was just this all too familiar unbalanced bluster. The other "Make America Great Again" thread...it's not completely satirical, given the rhetoric.

Anyway, just sick of having to watch roundtables and documentaries on the 1996 World Cup.

- The blame on the coaching and management is well deserved. There is also blame to go around on the players, and I'll say outright that this version of Pacioretty is very familiar and very alarming. Emelin is having a better tournament. Kane, Pavelski, JVR, Oshie -- they just didn't bring it, no matter what Torts failed to do. I actually don't think that there's a gap in US and Canadian talent, but there definitely is a difference in the system buy in and "110%" effort of every player on Canada, going back to probably 2002, but even more obvious under Babcock. Which brings me to my next point:

- TC is just unbelievably well-oiied and dedicated to executing the game plan. There is a certain pride factor that I'm happy to see exists in our collective consciousness, but that permeates to NHL players as well; I don't even agree with the roster 100%, but whoever is there is playing by Team Canada rules.

So, as much as the US played poorly, they barely had a second to make a decision -- there was already someone (superstar/elite player) with fresh legs bearing down on them. Credit has to be given to Canada for making the US look so helpless. I think that in the Europe game, it was more about not knowing how to regroup, though Europe has certainly bought in to their system.

Anyway, the US team will be amazing next time, and I will always be wary of playing them. In the meantime, please NHL network, stop with the media blitz about how the 1996 World Cup was the greatest achievement in Sports. It clearly had terrible karma.

I think it'll be Can/Swe in the final, with a close effort by NA. Very little parity with these three teams at the moment.

 

[EK47]

The leadership of Team USA are ****ing morons.

John Torotrella is ****ing moron.

Teams shouldn't be built to defeat one specfic team, which they wouldn't likely do anway.

They should have built Team USA around Kane, other skilled forwards and defensemen that can actually move the puck. Its basically a glorified exibhition tournament, get good players, play uptempo hockey.

Why not a team like this ?

Coach: Mike Sullivan

Patrick Kane - Joe Pavelski - T.J Oshie
Blake Wheler - Nick Bonino - Phil Kessel
Max Pacioretty - Paul Stasny -Zach Parise
Brandon Saad - Tyler Johnson - Kyle Okposo

Justin Faulk - Jon Carlson
Kevin Shattenkirk - Ryan Suter
Keith Yandle - Dustin Byfuglien

Alt: Derek Stepan, Matt Niskanen, Kyle Palmieri

Because there are no "elite grinders" on that team

 

[AD1066]

The leadership of Team USA are ****ing morons.

John Torotrella is ****ing moron.

Teams shouldn't be built to defeat one specfic team, which they wouldn't likely do anway.

They should have built Team USA around Kane, other skilled forwards and defensemen that can actually move the puck. Its basically a glorified exibhition tournament, get good players, play uptempo hockey.

In other words, have some continuity between the men's national team, and the style of play emphasized and taught by the USNTDP. From what I can tell the US development model has shifted heavily towards skating and puck movement, so it would be nice to see those qualities reflected in our national team, even if every player isn't necessarily a graduate of the program. Instead we get Tortorella trying to grind out wins against more talented opposition.

 

[Rebels57]

The leadership of Team USA are ****ing morons.

John Torotrella is ****ing moron.

Teams shouldn't be built to defeat one specfic team, which they wouldn't likely do anway.

They should have built Team USA around Kane, other skilled forwards and defensemen that can actually move the puck. Its basically a glorified exibhition tournament, get good players, play uptempo hockey.

Why not a team like this ?

Coach: Mike Sullivan

Patrick Kane - Joe Pavelski - T.J Oshie
Blake Wheler - Nick Bonino - Phil Kessel
Max Pacioretty - Paul Stasny -Zach Parise
Brandon Saad - Tyler Johnson - Kyle Okposo

Justin Faulk - Jon Carlson
Kevin Shattenkirk - Ryan Suter
Keith Yandle - Dustin Byfuglien

Alt: Derek Stepan, Matt Niskanen, Kyle Palmieri

That D is and Wingers are MILES better than what they decided to go with. Good lord.

 

[Preisst*]

They need more characters who can score goals

True but they also need guys who play a complete two way game if they want to beat Canada. They need guys who are not scared to go to the tough areas of the ice and in the corners. They need guys who will not do a figure 8 ice dancing move when it comes to battling for the puck. You don't beat Canada with guys like Kessel. He would be rendered completely moot against Canada.

Just my opinion. We all have different opinions. It doesn't make anyone better or worse then anyone else.

 

[Preisst*]

Ah yes, while I was watching the game and USA was down 4-1 I was thinking "You know what team USA needs? More character. Not game breakers who are dynamic in the offensive zone, specifically ones that just recently led the Stanley Cup winning team in goals and points and has a track record of being a P/PG player in the playoffs and in international tournaments."

This is the National Hockey League not the National Thespian League.

I'm guessing the majority of "internet experts" were right on the money considering team USA went exactly the way everyone said they would. It was almost too predictable.

See post #344. Do you really think a guy like Kessel is going to produce against a team like Canada? Like really?

Just my opinion. We all have different opinions. It doesn't make anyone better or worse then anyone else. The sun will still come up tomorrow.

 

[Scotty B]

A couple of thoughts on not just the game, but the reactions:

- The US fans must be disappointed, and only a small minority think that they lost because of bad luck, so there's really no joy in gloating over a rivalry game

- That said, now that I'm watching in the States and on ESPN, the tournament has been billed non-stop as a pulpit for propaganda regarding how amazing this US team is (was), and how they were built to beat Canada. The number of times that was repeated (at least on ESPN and the NHL Network, the latter which I thought would be neutral) was staggering. Best of all was the non-stop harping about 1 friggin win in 1996! They brought in Hull, Chelios (who were actually fun for commentary), Doug Weight with his ring, talked about Amonte all the time, and never made ANY significant mention that there HAS been a WC since 1996, and that the US didn't do that well. To say nothing of the defeats that they have suffered at the Olympics (I'll leave out the World Championships cuz nobody has all their players), directly at the hands of Canada. So, while I get the hype of the matchup, there was just this all too familiar unbalanced bluster. The other "Make America Great Again" thread...it's not completely satirical, given the rhetoric.

Anyway, just sick of having to watch roundtables and documentaries on the 1996 World Cup.

- The blame on the coaching and management is well deserved. There is also blame to go around on the players, and I'll say outright that this version of Pacioretty is very familiar and very alarming. Emelin is having a better tournament. Kane, Pavelski, JVR, Oshie -- they just didn't bring it, no matter what Torts failed to do. I actually don't think that there's a gap in US and Canadian talent, but there definitely is a difference in the system buy in and "110%" effort of every player on Canada, going back to probably 2002, but even more obvious under Babcock. Which brings me to my next point:

- TC is just unbelievably well-oiied and dedicated to executing the game plan. There is a certain pride factor that I'm happy to see exists in our collective consciousness, but that permeates to NHL players as well; I don't even agree with the roster 100%, but whoever is there is playing by Team Canada rules.

So, as much as the US played poorly, they barely had a second to make a decision -- there was already someone (superstar/elite player) with fresh legs bearing down on them. Credit has to be given to Canada for making the US look so helpless. I think that in the Europe game, it was more about not knowing how to regroup, though Europe has certainly bought in to their system.

Anyway, the US team will be amazing next time, and I will always be wary of playing them. In the meantime, please NHL network, stop with the media blitz about how the 1996 World Cup was the greatest achievement in Sports. It clearly had terrible karma.

I think it'll be Can/Swe in the final, with a close effort by NA. Very little parity with these three teams at the moment.

Don't kid yourself...Aside from Kane there's precious little on Team USA that would interest Team Canada's Brass (pretending, for the sake of this discussion, that they were all dual nats )

Comparing the rosters , mano a mano, even after all the injuries TC suffered, considerable, CONSIDERABLE, talent gap in Canuck's favor

 

[winnipegger]

Yeah, this is pretty descriptive

 

[IslandBeast]

That's a pretty bold statement. America is behind the curve on producing high end youth, but that is changing. As time goes by, more cities and teams invest in American youth hockey, that culture will become strong in America. If our best in the world talent that plays football and basketball start to play hockey. Smug opinions like yours will be a coping mechanism.


As for this team, they deserved to get embarrassed. Horribly constructed and piss poor moral.

Yeah if that 6'9 basketball player from Alabama decides to play hockey instead...look out...and I bet that 6'4 300 pound football player from Texas could skate like the wind if he had enough practice..

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

not hearing that arrogant "USA! USA! USA!" chant feels good.

Right, because Canadian fans weren't chanting for Canada. Not sure if that's a serious post or not.

 

[Preisst*]

I didn't see a lot of "try hard" out there though. It's like they didn't want to play or something. It seems like it felt like an obligation more than anything else.

Also, America's best athletes aren't on the ice, they are on a court or a field. Just be happy we don't have a hockey culture here. God help you if a LeBron picks up a hockey stick at age 3 instead of a basketball.

USA population 320,000,000

Canada population 35,000,000

I hope you can appreciate how silly your stance is.

Just my opinion. We all have different opinions. It doesn't make anyone better or worse then anyone else. The sun will come up tomorrow.

 

[AvsGuy]

Yeah if that 6'9 basketball player from Alabama decides to play hockey instead...look out...and I bet that 6'4 300 pound football player from Texas could skate like the wind if he had enough practice..

^^ on that topic, JJ Watt is a pretty fantastic hockey player

 

[Scotty B]

See post #344. Do you really think a guy like Kessel is going to produce against a team like Canada? Like really?

Just my opinion. We all have different opinions. It doesn't make anyone better or worse then anyone else. The sun will still come up tomorrow.

Did you watch Canada vs US semi final game in Sochi? Kessel came within a whisker of scoring early in first period which woulda put a whole new complection on that game ( and quite possibly the whole tourney ) considering final score was 1-0 Canada...

Kessel was a dangerous, DANGEROUS forward in Sochi...a dynamic potential game breaker who really stood out alongside both his peers and opponents at times

 

[Preisst*]

Yeah if that 6'9 basketball player from Alabama decides to play hockey instead...look out...and I bet that 6'4 300 pound football player from Texas could skate like the wind if he had enough practice..

Yeah but apparently Canadians are evil incarnate cuz we're happy we throttled the USA.

Imagine for a moment if the game had gone the other way and the reaction of the fans on the winning team then. Of course in our typical Canadian mentality we would just let them kick us when we were down and not whine and cry about it.

 

[Dbrownss]

Yeah if that 6'9 basketball player from Alabama decides to play hockey instead...look out...and I bet that 6'4 300 pound football player from Texas could skate like the wind if he had enough practice..

I get that your trying to be a smart ass, but yes if you take some of the "physical freaks" and they dedicate their life to hockey. They might be standouts. Massive football players move incredibly well given how big they are. Most likely they wouldn't be as large if they played hockey but the physical dominance could still be there. Kinda like Byfuglien.

Yeah but apparently Canadians are evil incarnate cuz we're happy we throttled the USA.

Imagine for a moment if the game had gone the other way and the reaction of the fans on the winning team then. Of course in our typical Canadian mentality we would just let them kick us when we were down and not whine and cry about it.

My posts are more responding to "Yanks" aren't good at hockey. Couldn't care less that the US lost.

 

[Preisst*]

Did you watch Canada vs US semi final game in Sochi? Kessel came within a whisker of scoring early in first period which woulda put a whole new complection on that game ( and quite possibly the whole tourney ) considering final score was 1-0 Canada...

Kessel was a dangerous, DANGEROUS forward in Sochi...a dynamic potential game breaker who really stood out alongside both his peers and opponents at times

If it makes you feel good to think that USA would beat Canada just cuz Kessel would have been on the team then have at it.

But seriously do you think USA would have beaten Canada yesterday if Kessel was good enough to have been selected?

Just my opinion. We all have different opinions. It doesn't make anyone better or worse then anyone else. The sun will come up tomorrow.