GDT: #7| New York Islanders @ Tampa Bay Lightning | June 25TH | 8:00 PM | F/L 1-0

[BMOK33]

Nah, I disagree. I think if we had won last night, we were winning the cup. That is why this is so devastating. It was not just a semifinal loss, knowing we still had to face Colorado or something. This was a semifinal loss where the final opponent would have been a huge step down in class. You might never get this kind of chance at the cup again. The last time the Isles were in the cup finals I was 3 years old. And I am not getting younger 37 years later. This really felt like the year and it is heartbreaking to have fallen essentially one (too many men on the ice) goal short.

I learned my lesson thinking that way the two times the Mets got to the World Series and NLCS facing markedly inferior Yankees Cardinals and Royals teams and still lost. I think we would have been favored but would have been nervous

 

[beach]

No offense, but f*** Barzy, f*** anyone who was crying. Score a f***ing goal. Get more than 18 shots on goal. I know Tampa can strangle you defensively, but have to fight through it. Reminds me of the Washington game 7 six years ago, 11 shots on goal.

That being said, Barzal had some good games during the playoffs, but he’s not clutch. Overall though, It was a great year for the Isles. I didn’t expect them to beat the Bolts, but to get to game 7, and to only have 18 shots on goal, it’s just very disappointing.

Easy Scott. I think they played their hearts out this entire playoff season. Even in games like last night, it was Tampa's shutdown D that prevented us from doing anything. Based on the overall talent on this team, we got to where we are on good talent, not great, and a whole lot of guts.

 

[Bones45]

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Looking forward to opener at Belmont.

 

[mitchel674]

Barzal is a beast. Great skater who ran rings around the lightning D when he had the puck in the offensive zone, BUT he holds the puck too long and doesn't make the critical pass or take the shot. It's just a matter of time before someone catches him and flicks the puck away. Same thing happened last year against the lightning. Great young player with potential, but he needs to recognize this flaw in his play.

 

[Lek]

Barzal is a beast. Great skater who ran rings around the lightning D when he had the puck in the offensive zone, BUT he holds the puck too long and doesn't make the critical pass or take the shot. It's just a matter of time before someone catches him and flicks the puck away. Same thing happened last year against the lightning. Great young player with potential, but he needs to recognize this flaw in his play.

The problem is...half the time, the critical pass is not there, as there is no one to pass to....and that, is what needs to be addressed this off season.

 

[Seph]

Classic case of reductio ad absurdum, bravo

The difference is Pelech is ELITE at what he does and probably our best defensemen. So, using what I posed to you which you refused to answer

Offense gained: 6 (minor gain)

Defense gained: (1 major loss)

In other words, any minor gain in offense would be OVERWHELMINGLY countered by Aho’s lack of defensive ability relative to Pelech

see how it works?

Komarov is a plug, and probably the 12th best forward the Islanders iced last night, if there was one guy who you would replace to get more offense, it would be him or Zajac.

And I’m not ASSUMING they would have won with him in, I’m saying that Leo is not one of the 12 best skaters the Islanders had rostered at the time, and DEFINITIVELY was not the best option for a top line winger

You go to war with your best. Leo, in the role he was asked to play, was NOT one of our best

Oh, cool, so you do understand how a player's superior ability to neutralize the opposition and execute the system can take precedence over offensive ability.

Everything else you wrote is great for spreadsheet GMs like Dubas and video games, but less so for coaches trying to win a game against a team like Tampa where someone like Wahlstrom still leaves us well short of making up the gap in talent.

 

[Thrasymachus]

well, that stung

 

[JKP]

I'd be surprised if it goes past 5 games; MTL has the best goalie of the last 25-30 years but does not have anywhere near the depth or forward talent the TBL can offer.

This is what my brain says. Then I see what Montréal’s Top 4 D and Price have done so far. Add in a PK that has been stupidly good and I wonder if the Habs can actually pull it off...

 

[Tres Peleches]

Oh, cool, so you do understand how a player's superior ability to neutralize the opposition and execute the system can take precedence over offensive ability.

Everything else you wrote is great for spreadsheet GMs like Dubas and video games, but less so for coaches trying to win a game against a team like Tampa where someone like Wahlstrom still leaves us well short of making up the gap in talent.

I’m not looking to sacrifice defense for nothing. But what did this team end up lacking? It sure as hell wasn’t defense

It was scoring ability and the ability to convert on Powerplays. Leo doesn’t make THAT much of a difference in shutting down opponents relative to the massive improvement Wahlstrom would have brought on the PP

 

[wingnutks]

This is what my brain says. Then I see what Montréal’s Top 4 D and Price have done so far. Add in a PK that has been stupidly good and I wonder if the Habs can actually pull it off...

They 100% can. I think people are going to be surprised. I also think TB is WAY more beat up than Montreal

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

Based on how I still feel today, I can tell this is far and away the most painful sports loss I have ever experienced in my life. I am not the type of person who carries sports losses with me very long. I usually vent a few hours after the game and move on. And for playoff series losses maybe feel upset for day or two. But it is two days later and I still feel it, it really almost feels like the kind of heartbreak as if you were dumped.
I would guess most fans in the 35-45 year old range like myself are most likely feeling this way. Not old enough to remember the cups (or just missing them), but not young enough where it feels like just another season ending. This was tough, there is no way around it. I feel in my soul, that this really seemed like fate, it really felt like this was the year, and I genuinely believe if we won that game, there was no chance this group of players were going to let Montreal stop them.
Then you throw in all the tribute articles and videos to the Coliseum starting to come out and you think about all these years of memories there, it is just even that much tougher. Ugh.

 

[JKP]

They 100% can. I think people are going to be surprised. I also think TB is WAY more beat up than Montreal

No question. I think we beat the shit out of them and they weren’t 100% coming into us.

 

[MJF]

I’m not looking to sacrifice defense for nothing. But what did this team end up lacking? It sure as hell wasn’t defense

It was scoring ability and the ability to convert on Powerplays. Leo doesn’t make THAT much of a difference in shutting down opponents relative to the massive improvement Wahlstrom would have brought on the PP

Wow, you couldn’t be more wrong about Komarov’s contribution to the defense. The goals he prevented at the other end, the plays he made to keep guys out to the low danger areas, the penalties he drew. Most of the games we lost were within reach into the 3rd periods because we didn’t let teams run wild on us. You can’t minimize the role Leo had in that.

 

[MJF]

Based on how I still feel today, I can tell this is far and away the most painful sports loss I have ever experienced in my life. I am not the type of person who carries sports losses with me very long. I usually vent a few hours after the game and move on. And for playoff series losses maybe feel upset for day or two. But it is two days later and I still feel it, it really almost feels like the kind of heartbreak as if you were dumped.
I would guess most fans in the 35-45 year old range like myself are most likely feeling this way. Not old enough to remember the cups (or just missing them), but not young enough where it feels like just another season ending. This was tough, there is no way around it. I feel in my soul, that this really seemed like fate, it really felt like this was the year, and I genuinely believe if we won that game, there was no chance this group of players were going to let Montreal stop them.
Then you throw in all the tribute articles and videos to the Coliseum starting to come out and you think about all these years of memories there, it is just even that much tougher. Ugh.

Good thing you weren’t around for 1979. You would have been a mess.

 

[Seph]

I’m not looking to sacrifice defense for nothing. But what did this team end up lacking? It sure as hell wasn’t defense

It was scoring ability and the ability to convert on Powerplays. Leo doesn’t make THAT much of a difference in shutting down opponents relative to the massive improvement Wahlstrom would have brought on the PP

If you aren't looking to sacrifice defense for offense, then your argument for why it is indefensible for Trotz to play Leo needs to include how Wahlstrom is inarguably at least as good as Leo at playng defense and at executing the defensive system consistently.

 

[Tres Peleches]

If you aren't looking to sacrifice defense for offense, then your argument for why it is indefensible for Trotz to play Leo needs to include how Wahlstrom is inarguably at least as good as Leo at playng defense and at executing the defensive system consistently.

No, I said defense for nothing

your example of exchanging Pelech for Aho definitively makes the team worse since Pelech is our BEST defenseman. Leo is nowhere near our best forward at anything

And I never claimed Wahlstrom was at least as good as Leo at playing the system. I said he is infinitely better at generating offense, since Leo doesn’t only provide no offense, potential offense routinely dies on his stick

You make it seem like putting Wahlstrom in for Leo is gonna make the entire system collapse. Which is bullshit

 

[Seph]

No, I said defense for nothing

your example of exchanging Pelech for Aho definitively makes the team worse since Pelech is our BEST defenseman. Leo is nowhere near our best forward at anything

And I never claimed Wahlstrom was at least as good as Leo at playing the system. I said he is infinitely better at generating offense, since Leo doesn’t only provide no offense, potential offense routinely dies on his stick

You make it seem like putting Wahlstrom in for Leo is gonna make the entire system collapse. Which is bullshit

Ah, I see you are a fan of the reductive straw man argument. I never said anything of the sort.

My example of Aho vs Pelech was to prove that a better defensive player can have value over a better offensive player. And that the argument that we have plenty of those types is flawed.

But OK, the lesson we should have learned from the last road game against TB where we gave up 8 goals was we should sacrifice defense for offense. Got it.

 

[The Real JT]

I'll state the obvious and say that there's a middle ground in the Wahlstrom debate.

While he showed some flashes, he also wasn't attentive enough to his defensive responsibilities. That left him appropriately on the bench according to the judgement of our HOF coach.

Like many of you, I've watched Groundhog Day and I wish we had a do over and could've played the last series with him in the lineup.

Our franchise is painfully thin in offensive prospects so I too hope he gets a crack at the starting lineup next season. Penciling him in for 30 goals is a bit of a stretch but sure, why not?

 

[Incarnadine Sea]

I'll state the obvious and say that there's a middle ground in the Wahlstrom debate.

While he showed some flashes, he also wasn't attentive enough to his defensive responsibilities. That left him appropriately on the bench according to the judgement of our HOF coach.

Like many of you, I've watched Groundhog Day and I wish we had a do over and could've played the last series with him in the lineup.

Our franchise is painfully thin in offensive prospects so I too hope he gets a crack at the starting lineup next season. Penciling him in for 30 goals is a bit of a stretch but sure, why not?

Then why was he in the lineup up each playoff game until his injury? Why was he deemed worthy enough then, but not after?

 

[The Real JT]

Then why was he in the lineup up each playoff game until his injury? Why was he deemed worthy enough then, but not after?

Wahlstrom was always under the microscope for Trotz.

Zajac underperformed early on but when given the chance in Wahlstrom's absence, he capitalized and that was all Coach needed to see.

Rookies are always scrutinized more in Trotz's system. Who am I to argue?

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

Ugh.

Komarov really isn't even the lone argument. Zajac being replaced should have also been in play.

We BADLY needed another scoring option.

It is absolutely indefensible to automatically say that Wahlstrom wouldn't have been a plus for us or that his (lack of) defense would have not been worth it. Not only did that third line (because of a banged up Pageau) finish with a collective -2 rating but they scored ZERO POINTS in the entire series. Zero, zilch, nodda.

We HAD to win one of the two road games in TB to advance to the Stanley Cup finals. And in both games we managed ZERO goals and we weren't creating enough shots.....and of course we were a combined 1 for 19 on the power play, including 0 for 5 in the three close games we lost. 5% on the power play? Of course it is one of the reasons we lost!!!

All of that while your BEST POWERPLAY forward (by just about every metric), your #1 forward at attempting shots (yes, even over Barzal who averaged some 5 minutes more per game) and yes your #1 forward at getting shots on net (per ice time) was sitting the entire series.

We KNEW Vasy was undefeated when he faced 27 shots or less on net all season, yet in the two road games where we needed to win one we managed to average less than 20.

Barry is a great coach who has put us back on the map, but if the rookie was healthy (and all reports suggest he was) he blew it big time by not putting him in from G1..... period.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

Zajac was a big zero against TB. Hell, his two third period penalties in G3 all but erased any chance of a comeback.

You can't have a third (injured Pags, Zajac, Palmieri, Komarov) of your 12 forwards put up ZERO points the ENTIRE SERIES and expect to win against TB....period....

 

[Quickdraw2828]

I'm going to say it again, Barzal, with or without Leo, hasn't elevated his game as much as I hoped. He's the difference right now. We saw how crushed he was, hopefully he remembers this and works on the aspects of the game he's struggling with. He needs more shots and goals.

 

[Green]

Good thing you weren’t around for 1979. You would have been a mess.

Isles were a very good team in 79, they just couldn't get over the hump and they were a 7 year old franchise with alot of amazing players entering their prime so you had that to look forward to. So I am sure those watching in 79 were upset, it is not like watching the team for 35 years and having mostly misery, and beginning to realize there is a decent chance you will never see them win a cup in your life, which is how I feel and why I think as the years go by the loss on Friday might hurt more. I really hope this isn't karma for taking a delight in all those 19-40 chants back in the day.

 

[Incarnadine Sea]

Wahlstrom was always under the microscope for Trotz.

Zajac underperformed early on but when given the chance in Wahlstrom's absence, he capitalized and that was all Coach needed to see.

Rookies are always scrutinized more in Trotz's system. Who am I to argue?

Fair enough. I forgot about Zajac early on. His was so good as the playoffs went on it feels like he was like that from the get go.

Though I can see both sides of the argument in the Wahlstrom debate, I'm in the camp that thought he deserved a shot in at least a game and see what happens.

Komarav > Wahlstrom defensively, but Wahlstrom > Komarov offensively.

I don't see Wahlstrom as a defensive liability and, more importantly, the rest of the team is defensively strong and follows the system Trotz has implemented.

Furthermore, and this is the most important point, it's not simply Komarov vs. Wahlstrom. It's the players around them. In my opinion, Wahlstrom would have helped to elevate Barzal's game. I know I'm not the first to say this nor will I be the last.