2024 Matthews vs 2008 Ovi: Who's better player?

[Cup or Bust]

Ovechkin lead the league in scoring. The Capitals only scored 238 goals that season. The Leafs will probably score around 300 goals this season. I would definitely go with Ovechkin on this one.

 

[1specter]

This board hates Matthews because of the team he plays for and that's ok, he's a great player and it's been fun to watch him this year, especially this past month where he's been absolutely possessed. Nothing wrong with picking Ovechkin here, but so many posts in this thread glossing over Matthews' historic goal scoring season and acting like it's just a run of the mill season lmao.

 

[Toby91ca]

2008 was low scoring and Ovechkin also won the art ross. Has to be him.

Only argument you could make is that Ovechkin's competition was weaker (Crosby missed 30 games)....but it would be a pretty weak argument. I think Matthews year is approaching 2008 Ovechkin, but approaching doesn't mean = or better.

 

[Buck Naked]

HF always overrates defensive impact among forwards. There's a reason guys like Datsyuk, Forsberg, and Fedorov are among the most overrated players on these forums.

 

[AvroArrow]

This board hates Matthews because of the team he plays for and that's ok, he's a great player and it's been fun to watch him this year, especially this past month where he's been absolutely possessed. Nothing wrong with picking Ovechkin here, but so many posts in this thread glossing over Matthews' historic goal scoring season and acting like it's just a run of the mill season lmao.

Honestly, even the guys that usually hate on the Leafs have been showing Matthews love and giving him credit. I don't see it like that at all. There will be the odd few posters, that happens everywhere but for the most part I think he has earned his respect throughout the league and from what I've seen so far this year, fans from all over have been giving this guy his props.

 

[Contenderorpretender]

Matthews is more efficient on his scoring. 100 less sog and almost 300 total shot attempts less to reach 65.

 

[authentic]

I thought Ovechkin was the scariest player in the NHL with regards to goals though.
And on the power play, it's not even a question - that is just as much because of the dearth of power plays the Leafs get, as it is the unbelievably stupid setup the Leafs employ on the power play.

Doesn't hurt that for almost the entire duration of his tenure, Ovechkin has had a much better complement of players on the power play with never any less than 2 scoring threats, a play maker, and a point shot threat.

Toronto has never had a point shot threat on the power play outside of the few games this year Klingberg was on the power play. It's entirely factual that the best point player on the Leafs power plays since 2016/17 is Matthews, while he is also the best trigger man on the hash marks.


You'll never hear me diminish the accomplishments of Ovechkin.
I think he is one of the best players to do what he has been tasked with doing in his career - the ultimate power forward goal scoring machine.


But there are 2 ends to the NHL rink - the offensive end, and the defensive end.

Ovechkin has never been a factor in his own end of the ice.
Matthews is a premier defensive player.




As far as the PP factor and the ice time factor some people keep dismissing, what do you guys believe Matthews would do with 130 more power plays season over season?

Thus far, over the course of 77 games, Toronto sits 28th in power plays with 220.
In the season Ovechkin scored 65 goals, Washington was 19 in the NHL with 337 power plays.



In 2008/09, Ovechkin was 4th in the league in pp time on ice with 427:46.
In 2023/24, Matthews ranks 50th in the league in pp time on ice with 252:38.


Since, entering the league, Ovechkin's power play on time seasons rank:

8th, 28th, 37th, 66th, 121st, 181st, 189th, 211th, 226th, 230th, 255th, 264th, 281st, 310th, 468th, 496th, 721st.

Matthews, in that exact same period of time, has his highest pp time on ice season ranked............. 921st.

Ovechkin's 17th highest season of power play time on ice was 15 minutes more than Matthews' best season ever.

The discrepancy between the power play time these 2 have enjoyed in the NHL is astronomical, and those who choose to remain blind to it are willfully ignorant.

That’s exactly why Ovechkin is not the better goal scorer like some clearly believe when considering league goals per game only, Ovechkin not only cheated for offense at every turn even strength but has lived on the powerplay for 25% of his career and peak seasons as opposed to under 15% for Matthews while playing the complete opposite as a dominant two-way center. Only stands to reason that Matthews is infact the better goal scorer.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I could still keep going with 07/08 players as well. There were the skill guys like Semin, Kovalev, Hemsky, Connolly who I think would have been able to avoid injuries easier and thrive in today's league. I do think there is more offensive skill now, as the bottom line goons have been pushed out, but that is mostly on the lower lines where the difference is most pronounced. The idea that there would be 10-20 players from the current league matching Ovechkin's 112 points in 07/08 is nonsense. There aren't even that many hitting that total now.

Again, before scoring went up, we saw McDavid, Kucherov and MacKinnon winning and competing for scoring titles with under 110 points. Ovechkin in today's league is an 125-135 point player. Hell, he hit 109 in 72 games in 09/10 which is an 122 in 82 game pace.

wasnt saying there are 10-20 people matching Ovechkin just there is alot more skill now. and that those 112 points would still put him 24 points behind the current leader. would really question if he would win a Art Ross in todays game with McDavid around if 08 Ovechkin was playing this year.

I do think his point totals would go up but he still wouldnt finish above MacKinnon, Kuch or McDavid this season

 

[Skolman]

Oh I'm fully aware he's not going to win the Hart even though he's actually playing better now than the year he did.

So, what's your point?

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Ovechkin was among the league leaders in hits. How exactly does a player accumulate 220 hits if he had "zero interest in playing defense" or "coasted back." Do you not know what a hit is?

For all your assertions about defense, Ovechkin was on the ice for FEWER even strength goals against per game in 2008 than Auston Matthews has been in 2023-24.

Yet Matthews plays on a far superior team - especially defensively - than what Ovie had around him in 2008.

In short, your posts are full of falsehoods and assumptions that are contradicted by the facts.

well hitting doesnt just come in one area on the ice, OV hit all over the ice but did stuff like this as well

https://packaged-media.redd.it/0hnp588vq1v61/pb/m2-res_720p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1712689200&s=753353363c4ca639f4140537b544013a925eee18#t=0

you really didnt forget that one of the things people knocked OV for earlier in his career was his lack of defense.

Defensive systems were also much stronger back then. How many 5’10 180 defensemen did you have skating up and down the ice?

well I will agree times have changed. the NHL is made for smaller players now

 

[Offtheboard412]

wasnt saying there are 10-20 people matching Ovechkin just there is alot more skill now. and that those 112 points would still put him 24 points behind the current leader. would really question if he would win a Art Ross in todays game with McDavid around if 08 Ovechkin was playing this year.

I do think his point totals would go up but he still wouldnt finish above MacKinnon, Kuch or McDavid this season

I really do believe a 09/10 Ovi could put up numbers close to those guys this year.Remember he was actually at an 135 point pace up until the Olympics that year. He slumped hard after the Olympics, maybe that doesn't happen with no Olympics this year. He still finished at an 122 point pace which I think would definitely be in the 130's at least this season. Remember that 09/10 Caps team was pretty ridiculous in terms of offensive talent too with Backstrom, Semin and Green playing the best hockey of their careers as well. Put that team in 2024 when power plays are converting at a much higher percentage nowadays and I think he would put up some ridiculous numbers. And maybe still he wouldn't win it this year. But a year like 21/22 where McDavid finished with 123 points and didn't pass up Huberdeau until the last 4 games of the season? Yes I definitely think he could take it. Matthews actually almost matched McDavids pace that season but missed games.

 

[1specter]

Honestly, even the guys that usually hate on the Leafs have been showing Matthews love and giving him credit. I don't see it like that at all. There will be the odd few posters, that happens everywhere but for the most part I think he has earned his respect throughout the league and from what I've seen so far this year, fans from all over have been giving this guy his props.

It's more about recognizing the rest of his game, such as his excellent defensive play. Many posts here discrediting all the good things he does and just dumb down his play to simply being a goal scorer and nothing more

 

[Divine]

Matthews is the way more complete player.

If you kept Matthews on the wing, gave him 0 defensive responsibility and didn't make him take face-offs and instead just waited on the opposite circle for a pass - he would score much more.

The Ovechkin today gives a lot more defensive effort than 08 Ovechkin.. and it's still pretty suspect.

 

[Midnight Judges]

well hitting doesnt just come in one area on the ice, OV hit all over the ice but did stuff like this as well

you really didnt forget that one of the things people knocked OV for earlier in his career was his lack of defense.

Actually Ovechkin was getting Selke votes early in his career.

Whoops.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Matthews, in that exact same period of time, has his highest pp time on ice season ranked............. 921st.

What does that even mean, how did you get these numbers of 921st.
Since AM came in the league he is 48th on PP minutes and 50th this year,
what is 921st, maybe it’s just poor wording.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Matthews is the way more complete player.

If you kept Matthews on the wing, gave him 0 defensive responsibility and didn't make him take face-offs and instead just waited on the opposite circle for a pass - he would score much more.

The Ovechkin today gives a lot more defensive effort than 08 Ovechkin.. and it's still pretty suspect.

Right. Centers are at a huge disadvantage for goal scoring relative to right wings and left wings. That explains why centers make up 50% of the top ten goal scorers of all time.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Matthews is a center and significantly better defensive player while matching Ovi's point and goal production without nearly as much powerplay time. Ovi is an all time great goal scoring winger but he isn't a better overall player than peak Matthews.

Literally lol’d

 

[Divine]

Right. Centers are at a huge disadvantage for goal scoring relative to right wings and left wings. That explains why centers make up 50% of the top ten goal scorers of all time.

Cause and effect.

The best players are usually moved to centre, especially in North America.

 

[Montreal Shadow]

well I will agree times have changed. the NHL is made for smaller players now

Which is why I don't agree with the whole, "players are much more skilled than they were 15 years ago." This ignores the different realities of the league today. For instance, the Avs today no doubt have more skill than the 07 Ducks but could they beat a team with Pronger, Niedermayer, Getzlaf, Perry, Pahlsson, Selanee, etc?

So I don't think the league is more "skilled" so much as it is different and is more conducive to the success of faster and smaller players over big bruisers who at the top had a lot of skills as well, just a different set of skills.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

OviAINEC

 

[nbwingsfan]

Ovi led the league in scoring. Matthews May end up like 30+ pts behind.

It’s not even close

 

[tapi]

Matthews is by far the superior player.

The only thing Ovi was better at was scoring on the PP which he enjoyed for 8 minutes per game. He never had the complete package which Auston possesses, despite his admittedly great scoring prowess. And even, Ovi's very peak performance, Auston already surpassed on two occasions (seasons). So easy Matthews for sure.

 

[X66]

but was he the Selke level defender Matthews is? And what was his ESP/60

A Selke level defender that scored 65, and you're using that to bash him?

That is unbelievably rare lol.

 

[nbwingsfan]

their numbers are really close. hard not to be biased but generally I find C as the harder position with alot more responsibility but Ovechkin went off that year. also ALOT less skill in the league overall back then I mean Ovechkin's 112 points is still 24 points behind the current leader this season.

but to all of you who think Matthews isn't even close. how many more goals does Matthews need to trump Ovechkin's 08 season?

The goal totals really don’t matter. It’s that Ovi led the league in scoring while Matthews is tied for 6th.. a whopping THIRTY points behind the leader.

 

[X66]

The goal totals really don’t matter. It’s that Ovi led the league in scoring while Matthews is tied for 6th.. a whopping THIRTY points behind the leader.

This answer could also be very different in 2 months, ya never know.