2024 Matthews vs 2008 Ovi: Who's better player?

[Buck Naked]

well I think the pool of talent today is much greater and yeah things have changed to help put up higher numbers now. but if u take 10-20 of the best players we have today and throw them in 07/08 and I bet you anything there would be alot more players around the same as Ovechkin point wise or higher point totals.

I mean if someone wants point out how Ovechkin has won a scoring title and Matthews hasn't come close then gotta really break it down. and let's be real the talent level wasn't really that close

I look at it this way. Put 07/08 Ovie in today's NHL and I think he wins the Rocket and is an unstoppable menace in the NHL. Put 23/24 Matthews in 07/08 and I don't think he beats Ovie for the scoring title or any other title for that matter. Ovie in 07/08 was just so different and could dominate physically and through his game and would've worked in basically any era.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I look at it this way. Put 07/08 Ovie in today's NHL and I think he wins the Rocket and is an unstoppable menace in the NHL. Put 23/24 Matthews in 07/08 and I don't think he beats Ovie for the scoring title or any other title for that matter. Ovie in 07/08 was just so different and could dominate physically and through his game and would've worked in basically any era.

maybe, maybe not no way of ever knowing. so if that Ovechkin was in the NHL today. how many more goals would he score over Matthews in your opinion?

 

[Buck Naked]

maybe, maybe not no way of ever knowing. so if that Ovechkin was in the NHL today. how many more goals would he score over Matthews in your opinion?

I think he could've been a threat for the 80 goal plateau.

 

[Offtheboard412]

well I think the pool of talent today is much greater and yeah things have changed to help put up higher numbers now. but if u take 10-20 of the best players we have today and throw them in 07/08 and I bet you anything there would be alot more players around the same as Ovechkin point wise or higher point totals.

I mean if someone wants point out how Ovechkin has won a scoring title and Matthews hasn't come close then gotta really break it down. and let's be real the talent level wasn't really that close

Back then it was Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Thornton, Iginla, Lecavalier, at the top.

Today it's McDavid, Kucherov, MacKinnon, Draisaitl, Panarin, Pastrnak at the top.

Scoring is up a pretty significant amount. There are certainly not 10-20 players who could hit 112 points in 08 in the league today. Let's not forget before scoring went up McDavid, Kucherov and MacKinnon were finishing around 100-110 points back in 16/17 and 17/18.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I think he could've been a threat for the 80 goal plateau.

well I mean Ovechkin's game is completely different. he almost completely ignored the defensive side of the same and was able to run and gun while hitting people all over the place. he was a beast for sure but just the fact that Matthews has been playing the tougher position while being defensively responsible it's pretty impressive he put up what he has. and okay it's good to know that even if Matthews scored 80 goals he would only be on par with Ovechkin lmao

 

[canuckslover10]

if that same ovi played now he would probably get 75, lol am I turning into a old head.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Back then it was Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Thornton, Datsyuk at the top.

Today it's McDavid, Kucherov, MacKinnon, Draisaitl, Panarin at the top.

Scoring is up a pretty significant amount. There are certainly not 10-20 players who could hit 112 points in 08 in the league today. Let's not forget before scoring went up McDavid, Kucherov and MacKinnon were finishing around 100-110 points back in 16/17 and 17/18.

forgetting some names in there as well. Panarin's first time hitting 100 points where's Tkachuk? hes back to back 100+ point seasons but started off slow due to shoulder surgery he obviously didnt 100% heal up from
even others Pastrnak, Draisaitl, Rantanen, Kaprizov, Matthews, Pettersson, still leaving some players out can prob include JT Miller who should hit 100 points this year after finishing I believe at 99 or maybe that was the year before.

wayy more overall talent now

 

[Despote]

I think he could've been a threat for the 80 goal plateau.

Where does that increase come from?

 

[Offtheboard412]

forgetting some names in there as well. Panarin's first time hitting 100 points where's Tkachuk? hes back to back 100+ point seasons but started off slow due to shoulder surgery he obviously didnt 100% heal up from
even others Pastrnak, Draisaitl, Rantanen, Kaprizov, Matthews, Pettersson, still leaving some players out can prob include JT Miller who should hit 100 points this year after finishing I believe at 99 or maybe that was the year before.

wayy more overall talent now

I left out plenty of names from Ovechkin's era as well. Heatley, St. louis, Datsyuk, Backstrom, Spezza, Kovalchuk, Hossa, Savard, Lecavalier all flirted with or went over 100. Scoring 100 now is not the same thing as scoring 100 back then. The league goals per game has gone up pretty significantly since then.

 

[Buck Naked]

Where does that increase come from?

It's easier to score today than back then. You had better goalies and better defence in 07/08.

 

[pi314]

Matthews is a center and significantly better defensive player while matching Ovi's point and goal production without nearly as much powerplay time. Ovi is an all time great goal scoring winger but he isn't a better overall player than peak Matthews.

Ovi will go down as one of the more overrated players ever.

Lazy floater.

 

[Despote]

It's easier to score today than back then. You had better goalies and better defence in 07/08.

The increase seems out of line with how scoring levels are actually different. The league is not 23% higher scoring than in 2008, and Matthews has just as much separation over other goalscorers in the league with a 70 goal pace as Ovechkin had with 65 goals.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I left out plenty of names from Ovechkin's era as well. Scoring 100 now is not the same thing as scoring 100 back then. The league goals per game has gone up pretty significantly since then.

well Jamie Benn won once with 87 points, so name them then because right now there's just ALOT more skill in the league then there was back in 07/08.
besides all of this doesnt matter. we got the number. turns out unless Matthews scored 80 or maybe 81 he wouldn't be considered the better player for their seasons.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Jesus. Matthews can't even beat Barzal, Laine or Stutzle in a poll. He's certainly not going to trump 2008 Ovi.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Ovi will go down as one of the more overrated players ever.

Lazy floater.

yeah apparently it doesnt matter cause all people remember is him scoring alot of goals and hitting people a shit load.
guy basically put his stink down and coasted back while the other team was on the attack. had zero interest in playing defense but I mean he did score 65

Where does that increase come from?

the bar keeps getting pushed further and further back

 

[pi314]

yeah apparently it doesnt matter cause all people remember is him scoring alot of goals and hitting people a shit load.
guy basically put his stink down and coasted back while the other team was on the attack. had zero interest in playing defense but I mean he did score 65

He did the two things that show up biggest on the highlights.

And none of the things that don’t.

It was his own coach Bruce Boudreau who got me to realize how bad he was at everything else.

 

[Offtheboard412]

well Jamie Benn won once with 87 points, so name them then because right now there's just ALOT more skill in the league then there was back in 07/08.
besides all of this doesnt matter. we got the number. turns out unless Matthews scored 80 or maybe 81 he wouldn't be considered the better player for their seasons.

I didn't know 14/15 was the same season as 07/08. My mistake thinking seasons that were 7 years apart weren't exactly the same. In 07/08 alone there was Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Thornton, Iginla, Lecavalier, St. louis, Heatley, Spezza, Hossa, Kovalchuk, Savard, Getzlaf off the top of my head.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

League scoring is 13% higher this season than in 2007-2008.

That's without bringing up the fact that Ovechkin was a much more physical force than Matthews.

I think people forget how feral players were still in 2007-2008 compared to now. Cheapshot artists were rampant, physical play was still prioritized. It was a very physical league.





Matthews would have been raptured after collisions like that.

Leafs fans sell Ovechkin short by labeling him one dimensional while suggesting Matthews is a Selke candidate.

Ovechkin was a two way force himself, offense and physicality.

 

[Offtheboard412]

The increase seems out of line with how scoring levels are actually different. The league is not 23% higher scoring than in 2008, and Matthews has just as much separation over other goalscorers in the league with a 70 goal pace as Ovechkin had with 65 goals.

Increases in scoring tend to have a larger effect on the top players. Those are the guys getting the most minutes, top power play time, empty net chances, 3 on 3 shifts. I don't think there is a big difference between Ovechkin and Matthews goal scoring those years though.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I didn't know 14/15 was the same season as 07/08. My mistake thinking seasons that were 7 years apart weren't exactly the same. In 07/08 alone there was Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Thornton, Iginla, Lecavalier, St. louis, Heatley, Spezza, Hossa, Kovalchuk, Savard, Getzlaf off the top of my head.

it was decent still but u can go much deeper today. scoring is up yes but there are ALOT more skill now. thats why scoring is up. u can likely double the high end skill players today from 08

 

[Dubi Doo]

Ovi was the most exciting player in the league at that point. Hard to say because Matthews is a solid two-way center as well, which impacts the game more than a winger, but Ovi was a piss missile out there. His speed and physicality were well beyond Matthews. It made him an incredibly unique player. I'd go with Ovi because of this.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Leafs fans sell Ovechkin short by labeling him one dimensional while suggesting Matthews is a Selke candidate.

Ovechkin was a two way force himself, offense and physicality.

what defense did Ovechkin play back then though? shit for like half his career the guy ignored defense.

pretty sure Matthews has gotten votes every year for Selke so wouldn't that make him a candidate?
and even if Matthews doesnt win he's a shit load more defensively responsible then Ovechkin was

I'm also not saying that Matthews is for sure better then Ovechkin was in 08 but its close. alot closer then some make it out to be.

Ovi was the most exciting player in the league at that point. Hard to say because Matthews is a solid two-way center as well, which impacts the game more than a winger, but Ovi was a piss missile out there. His speed and physicality were well beyond Matthews. It made him an incredibly unique player. I'd go with Ovi because of this.

his style for sure was ALOT more exciting to watch.

 

[authentic]

AM is a goal scorer. Prime Ovi dominated the game like McDavid. A Russian winger had more assists than an NA Centre in a lower scoring era.

Not close. AM is not even in the top 3 best players this year.

Matthews won the Hart and was runner up to McDavid the season before and will probably still gets votes this season with 3 players scoring 140+ points. I don’t think the Hart argument is a good one and these players are far closer than many here believe. Matthews has better goal differential and two-way impact than any of the big 3 point scorers this season and he’s about to score 70 goals, and this is while playing for a Leafs team that has been in the dumps defensively a majority of the season.

 

[BlueBaron]

League scoring is 13% higher this season than in 2007-2008.

That's without bringing up the fact that Ovechkin was a much more physical force than Matthews.

I think people forget how feral players were still in 2007-2008 compared to now. Cheapshot artists were rampant, physical play was still prioritized. It was a very physical league.





Matthews would have been raptured after collisions like that.

Conversely Matthews plays a harder position and is much more defensively minded. It's closer than HF will ever admit.

 

[Offtheboard412]

it was decent still but u can go much deeper today. scoring is up yes but there are ALOT more skill now. thats why scoring is up. u can likely double the high end skill players today from 08

I could still keep going with 07/08 players as well. There were the skill guys like Semin, Kovalev, Hemsky, Connolly who I think would have been able to avoid injuries easier and thrive in today's league. I do think there is more offensive skill now, as the bottom line goons have been pushed out, but that is mostly on the lower lines where the difference is most pronounced. The idea that there would be 10-20 players from the current league matching Ovechkin's 112 points in 07/08 is nonsense. There aren't even that many hitting that total now.

Again, before scoring went up, we saw McDavid, Kucherov and MacKinnon winning and competing for scoring titles with under 110 points. Ovechkin in today's league is an 125-135 point player. Hell, he hit 109 in 72 games in 09/10 which is an 122 in 82 game pace.