2024 Matthews vs 2008 Ovi: Who's better player?

[Arthur Morgan]

Look at season scoring differences. Ovechkin also won the scoring race, while Matthews is nowhere near.


Probably because 3 players have 130+ points and he has 102?

in a league with MUCH less talent but really Ovechkin's highest point total in his career is still behind by 24 points this season

 

[Acallabeth]

2008 Ovechkin won the Art Ross, Richard, Hart and Pearson while being the most physical star in the league with next to zero help (he outscored his team runner-ups by 39 goals and 43 points). He wasn't as defensively responsible as Matthews, but his overall impact on the game was insane.

Matthews is having a wonderful season, but he's barely ahead of Nylander in points and isn't anywhere close to league lead. I think it's obvious that he's somewhat behind AO-2008.

They won't answer that question, even if he scored 93 It wouldn't matter.

The reality is he needs 1 more.

Do you also think Doug Gilmour has a better peak season than Sidney Crosby and Gordie Howe? He had 127 points in 1992-1993.

 

[Skolman]

How is the guy with 65 goals not in the top 3 players this year?

McDavid, Mackinnon, Kucherov.

Ever heard of them?

They won't answer that question, even if he scored 93 It wouldn't matter.

The reality is he needs 1 more.

Here comes the victim complex

 

[Shark Finn]

in a league with MUCH less talent but really Ovechkin's highest point total in his career is still behind by 24 points this season

I thought this was about Matthews vs. Ovechkin, not The top scorers this year vs. Ovechkin.

 

[waitin425]

League scoring is 13% higher this season than in 2007-2008.

That's without bringing up the fact that Ovechkin was a much more physical force than Matthews.

I think people forget how feral players were still in 2007-2008 compared to now. Cheapshot artists were rampant, physical play was still prioritized. It was a very physical league.





Matthews would have been raptured after collisions like that.

This video makes me sad to watch. We have been deprived and ripped off of Best on Best tournaments since 2014. Thank f*** it is returning. But, we missed a 2018 tournament that would have had still elite Ovechkin and still elite Crosby paired with McDavid.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I thought this was about Matthews vs. Ovechkin, not The top scorers this year vs. Ovechkin.

which the comment I replied to was as well. Ovechkin winning a scoring title while Matthews no where near. so yeah my reply to that is in that year there was MUCH less talent. and that season which was Ovechkin's top point season was still 24 points behind the leader this year.

do you need more help to understand this?

 

[ijuka]

in a league with MUCH less talent but really Ovechkin's highest point total in his career is still behind by 24 points this season

Was it a league with less talent, or was the talent considered lesser due to it scoring less due to the era being low in scoring?

If anything, today the league is more diluted in talent, which should make the average team weaker.

 

[Buck Naked]

which the comment I replied to was as well. Ovechkin winning a scoring title while Matthews no where near. so yeah my reply to that is in that year there was MUCH less talent. and that season which was Ovechkin's top point season was still 24 points behind the leader this year.

do you need more help to understand this?

I don't think that's true. The talent was just not as offensively tilted, and the Dmen didn't run the offence in the same way they do today. They were absolutely better defensively though, and you had better goalies, so it was definitely harder to score. I honestly don't think that William Nylander would've been a top 10 scorer that year.

 

[93LEAFS]

Ovechkin was just a more dominant player. His overall production was better relative to the league, and while he had more PP time, he also had less support. Matthews is better defensively, but Ovechkin tilted the ice more and I think puck-dominant players are simply more conducive to winning (it’s a reason why I wasn’t as big on post-peak Ovechkin). I mean, Ovechkin’s year was held up as the best post-lockout season by the vast majority of people up until McDavid’s year last year, and now the 4th best forward this year is better? That doesn’t pass the smell test.

Matthews tilts the ice more than Ovechkin by all rel stats which is generally how you measure them.

Matthews 2023/24 at 5v5

Corsi rel: +5.1
Fenwick rel: +6.5

Ovechkin 2007/2008 at 5v5

Corsi Rel: +3.3
Fenwick Rel: +1.9

You can prefer Ovi, but he doesn't tilt the ice more than Matthews. Ovi even in his prime played a lot of one and out Hockey where he would fire from distance, and sometimes it'd go in and other times it would just create a one and out situation.

 

[Mrb1p]

Is this a joke?

 

[Sypher04]

Both amazing seasons, and despite the goal scoring prowess being similar, the two players are very very different. I can see the argument either way depending on how you value defense and physicality impacts. Anyone acting like it’s not close is being very disingenuous.

 

[Duder54]

Ovi, and it isn’t close (and I like Matthews as a player).

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Ovi. Matthews is terrific but you could argue he’s the third or fourth best offensive player in the league this year (Matthews, McDavid, Kucherov, MacK… not necessarily in that order). Ovi’s 2008 was one of the most dominant individual seasons we’ve ever seen.

 

[Caps8112]

think goaltending is a an obvious difference between the two seasons. Not Matthews fault that there are only a few elite goaltenders this particular year but it is a difference.

Matthews- Hellebuyck, Vasi, Bob, Shesterkin??? Daccord is 2nd in save percentage.

Ovechkin- Lundqvist, Brodeur, Miller, Luongo, Kiprusoff, Price, even Hasek was still in the league. To a slightly lesser extent, Vokoun, Nabokov, Ward.

One thing is not like the other. The goalies of today whether at a disadvantage because of talent, rules, games play, whatever.......are not the same as what Ovi was shooting on at his peak.

Not going to get in how much better the dmen were defensively.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Was it a league with less talent, or was the talent considered lesser due to it scoring less due to the era being low in scoring?

If anything, today the league is more diluted in talent, which should make the average team weaker.

I would say right now there;'s MUCH more top end talent then there was back in 07/08. yes the league has changed and scoring might be up but its up because there's just simply much better overall players in the league now

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I don't think that's true. The talent was just not as offensively tilted, and the Dmen didn't run the offence in the same way they do today. They were absolutely better defensively though, and you had better goalies, so it was definitely harder to score. I honestly don't think that William Nylander would've been a top 10 scorer that year.

well I think the pool of talent today is much greater and yeah things have changed to help put up higher numbers now. but if u take 10-20 of the best players we have today and throw them in 07/08 and I bet you anything there would be alot more players around the same as Ovechkin point wise or higher point totals.

I mean if someone wants point out how Ovechkin has won a scoring title and Matthews hasn't come close then gotta really break it down. and let's be real the talent level wasn't really that close

 

[Arthur Morgan]

For all of you who think Matthews isn't even close. how many more goals does Matthews need to trump Ovechkin's 08 season?

 

[Perfect_Drug]

For all of you who think Matthews isn't even close. how many more goals does Matthews need to trump Ovechkin's 08 season?

It wasn't just the number of goals. It was how he dominated.

Ovechkin was literally a bull in a China shop. He was an absolute menace who hit and deked with a ton of speed and power. Outside of maybe last seasons 150+ McDavid season, Ovechkin's 2008 was the most dominant season by any player in the modern era (post lockout).



I think the best way to describe him was a mix of Lindros and Pavel Bure. Physical dominance with ridiculous creativity and speed.


I love Jagr, but this hit was.. *chefs kiss*


His early career hit reel was awesome too. Like getting hit by a refrigerator.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

McDavid, Mackinnon, Kucherov.

Ever heard of them?


Here comes the victim complex

Sure have and none of them have 65 goals.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Have I become old to the point where some people don’t remember/haven’t watched Ovechkin in 2008?. That version of him was easily a top 10 player in NHL history. He definitely beats Matthews here.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

It wasn't just the number of goals. It was how he dominated.

Ovechkin was literally a bull in a China shop. He was an absolute menace who hit and deked with a ton of speed and power. Outside of maybe last seasons 150+ McDavid season, Ovechkin's 2008 was the most dominant season by any player in the modern era (post lockout).



I think the best way to describe him was a mix of Lindros and Pavel Bure. Physical dominance with ridiculous creativity and speed.


I love Jagr, but this hit was.. *chefs kiss*


His early career hit reel was awesome too. Like getting hit by a refrigerator.

I remember Ovechkin that year as well and he was insane. but it seems like ur basically saying there's nothing Matthews could ever do that could come even remotely close. he could score 82 goals and it wouldn't matter.

Ovechkin may have been a bull in a china shop but Matthews does play a tougher position and actually plays defense. Ovechkin back then really had no defense to his game he was all offense and hitting.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Close it , lopsided

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Sure have and none of them have 65 goals.

You’re probably trolling, but this is why Leafs fans have the reputation that they have.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Have I become old to the point where some people don’t remember/haven’t watched Ovechkin in 2008?. That version of him was easily a top 10 player in NHL history. He definitely beats Matthews here.

Freak of nature created in a Russian test tube , so visually impressive it was crazy , Matthews shot is impressive but he doesn't bulldoze through guys like Ovi did when he was younger , it was Lemieuesque

 

[Dog]

Matthews will score few more and get close to 70 goals he is the better player.