WC: 2023 IIHF World Championship Division I

[wetcoast]

Now im mad. I expected more from Serbia. Im half serb half swedish, so there is feelings involved here from me.

Glass half full for Serbia and half empty for Sweden I take it?

 

[PanniniClaus]

Glass half full for Serbia and half empty for Sweden I take it?

I would think Serbia U18 would be heavily favored over this version of the Swedes,...4 pretty lucky wins

 

[Eye of Ra]

I would think Serbia U18 would be heavily favored over this version of the Swedes,...4 pretty lucky wins

Im a bit mad at Nikola Pasic and Dragan Umicevic thought. Both of them will never be team Sweden level. They should play for Serbia. They have serbian parents and speaks fluent serbian. Both of them said they feel serbian as much as they feel swedish. But yeah they are born and grow up in Sweden both of them and speaks fluent swedish. But it would be nice if they choosed to play for Serbia.

I wonder if having Nikola Pasic and Dragan Umicevic would be enough for the serbs to advance to 1A? Serious question.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I wonder if having Nikola Pasic and Dragan Umicevic would be enough for the serbs to advance to 1A? Serious question.

Not even close. Croatia has Rendulic, Estonians have Rooba. It's not the level where 1 player can carry you through anymore. Hell, look at China, they have numerous pretty legit KHL/AHL level forwards and have dropped 4 points already in a weakened division.

Croatia during the Cronuck campaign years another good example, they pretty much had to get a roster full of EBEL players to get out of 1B. This roster still only finished 4th in 2015.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Can we start talking about China getting relegated?

After results like these I only see 2 outcomes: they either decide it's not worth it and run out of steam completely or try even harder, like try to recruit a real goalie and such.

 

[FrHockeyFan]

SOG 4-15... Scoreboard 3-0... would have never expected that one

 

[SoundAndFury]

While probably nobody at all has expected this, I'm not completely shocked either at this point. China has looked terrible and disinterested in every game they have played.

I remember Kasparaitis saying about his experience of playing in the 1B, that while the skill level is (understandably) low, this isn't a place where you can half-ass it in terms of speed and effort anymore and therefore he trained quite hard to get ready for it. This China crew just proves it, they obviously either came to just mail it in, or didn't have time to prepare whatsoever.

Slayer playing in the arena surely not an everyday choice.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Bad call and it allows China to slowly creep back into the game.. Super unfortunate.

No idea what are they even reviewing though.

But the Dutch strike right back lmao. This China team is a joke.

6-2 even before the 2nd break Those 2 Dutch fans in the stands definitely getting their moneys worth, so am I for taking the time to watch this.

 

[ozo]

I forgot about the game.... and now seeing the score I refuse to believe my eyes. Wtf is happening, I was sort of blaming Japan loss on the fact that they iced their local goalie instead of the naturalized one, but now...

 

[Albatros]

I'm guessing some boss man lost it when they were beaten by Japan and now the locker room is in complete disarray.

 

[FrHockeyFan]

They have plenty of time to train together during the season for a huge majority of them.

Honestly i never believed a KHL team was going to bring the level up that much as any NT relying heavily on "mercenaries" has proved by the past at that level. They should have sticked with Asia League or pushed to bring back VHL teams after Covid and give a free hand to foreign coaches. That would have been more worthwhile.

I'm guessing some boss man lost it when they were beaten by Japan and now the locker room is in complete disarray.

That wouldn't surprise me.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I forgot about the game.... and now seeing the score I refuse to believe my eyes. Wtf is happening

How Michel Therrien would put it, "hey, there's lot of guy don't care". I think they came in not taking this seriously, realistically got outplayed in the first two games, realized their "China numba 1" goal is no longer within reach and mentally checked out. Maybe the goal came with fat bonuses as well and they have 0 incentive to compete anymore since I'm fairly certain money is the only thing most of these guys agreed to play for this team for anyway.

I'm guessing some boss man lost it when they were beaten by Japan and now the locker room is in complete disarray.

That implies this bunch of imports cares what the Chinese boss man has to say to begin with. Which I very much doubt.

 

[SoundAndFury]

They have plenty of time to train together during the season for a huge majority of them.

If your PK is performing at 30% or something along those lines, that's more than just bad luck. Everyone on it either is terribly out of shape or have no idea what are they supposed to be doing.

On a brighter note, this Netherlands team deserves a lot of credit. Just like I said during Japan game, they do not look bad, it's still, at its core, a professional hockey team. And albeit that one turned VERY sour for them their 1-goal game against Estonia is much more indicative of their level than that demolition job by Japan.

Going even further down this rabbit hole, Ukraine not managing to secure their deserved win against China is a lot down to their goaltending which is a major weakness and is bound to get exposed by Japan as well. As long as it stays the way it is, no way Ukraine is a legitimate clear-cut 1A nation.

 

[ozo]

Now that I look at the Kunlun roster, I have overrated this China roster. Kunlun is a terrible KHL team, they scored just 10 goals more than historically bad Sochi team... Also worth noting that there are plenty of decent guys that were a big part of the KHL team and are not here, so these struggles should not be that surprising.

 

[Maverick41]

Looks like Dronia is about to win the ticket to DEL with Ravensburg, I wonder if he laces them up for Poland one more time since they are in D1A. Would be a huge add.

Also they could really use Trinec securing the title tomorrow.

Not really, promotion and relegation is a bit weird in Germany at the moment. Since there are certain requirements that need to be met to play in the DEL (arena etc.), not all teams in the DEL2 could afford to be promoted right now. Because of that only 3 teams submitted their bid for a DEL license earlier.
Those were Krefeld, Kassel and Dresden.
Long story short Ravensburg will not be promoted to the DEL next season. There will be no promotion, but one team will be relegated from the DEL so it will return to 14 teams for next season.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Now that I look at the Kunlun roster, I have overrated this China roster. Kunlun is a terrible KHL team, they scored just 10 goals more than historically bad Sochi team... Also worth noting that there are plenty of decent guys that were a big part of the KHL team and are not here, so these struggles should not be that surprising.

They do, however, have Spencer Foo as a pretty legitimate top-6 option unlike Kunlun. In hindsight, of course every factor is a factor but no matter how you look at it, they have ~10 professional hockey players that could play in pretty much any European league on this team. They are just underachieving massively. While personnel matters, they just got demolished by a weakened Oberliga roster.

"Struggles should not be that surprising" is just massive hindsight. I agree those might not be that surprising in light of their previous 2 games, but one would need a crystal ball to predict anything like that before the tournament. The odds on China across the board on all betting sites were 1,01 today - the lowest possible.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Not really, promotion and relegation is a bit weird in Germany at the moment. Since there are certain requirements that need to be met to play in the DEL (arena etc.), not all teams in the DEL2 could afford to be promoted right now. Because of that only 3 teams submitted their bid for a DEL license earlier.
Those were Krefeld, Kassel and Dresden.
Long story short Ravensburg will not be promoted to the DEL next season. There will be no promotion, but one team will be relegated from the DEL so it will return to 14 teams for next season.

Thanks for the info. But of course, the main point, in this case, was that Dronia is available due to that series being over. In theory, at least.

 

[Albatros]

That implies this bunch of imports cares what the Chinese boss man has to say to begin with. Which I very much doubt.

A Chinese classic would be not paying the team which is sure to shatter even the most stoic Western minds. Who knows what happened, but that was an abysmal display today by any standards.

 

[FrHockeyFan]

They do, however, have Spencer Foo as a pretty legitimate top-6 option unlike Kunlun. In hindsight, of course every factor is a factor but no matter how you look at it, they have ~10 professional hockey players that could play in pretty much any European league on this team. They are just underachieving massively. While personnel matters, they just got demolished by a weakened Oberliga roster.

"Struggles should not be that surprising" is just massive hindsight. I agree those might not be that surprising in light of their previous 2 games, but one would need a crystal ball to predict anything like that before the tournament. The odds on China across the board on all betting sites were 1,01 today - the lowest possible.

Even worse, half Oberliga, half Beneliga roster with Van Nes as the star player playing abroad.

 

[HungryFrank]

in China's example we saw that we tend to overrate the fact that someone has an KHL contract and underrate the effect of bad team management and lack of motivation.

What worked last year in D2A, doesn't work now. Sure Foos are good players, but their homegrown players are D2B tier and their mid-6 are no better than top Oberliga players.

I'm glad for Netherlands and this is another example how good they could be if they got rid of their demons.

Anyway, a nice start to the day

 

[SoundAndFury]

Even worse, half Oberliga, half Beneliga roster with Van Nes as the star player playing abroad.

I wrote "weakened Oberliga roster" for exactly this reason but at the same time, Tilburg is a powerhouse, I assume this roster would survive in the middle of the table just fine there. Additionally, some of the players definitely have the talent to play for Tilburg they simply don't want to live there, have a different life path or haven't been signed by Tilburg yet due to their age/school commitments. Oosterwijk, Oosterveld, some of the young guys clearly being such cases.

What worked last year in D2A, doesn't work now. Sure Foos are good players, but their homegrown players are D2B tier and their mid-6 are no better than top Oberliga players.

This overreaction to what happened is getting completely out of hand.

Your first point is completely valid and correct, people pay way too much attention just to the league tag (some well-known NHLe enjoyers out there), we can clearly see this with the Latvian team, for example, since Dinamo has vanished and very few actually cut it at the level similar to KHL's, or Olimpija doing very well with basically AlpsHL roster in the ICEHL last year, or GB surviving in the elite when in theory they have close to 0 players capable to play at such level. The Danes not qualifying for the Olympics with their dream roster featuring an actual good NHL top-6. Examples are endless, good players thrown together sometimes don't play well at all and vice versa.

The second one, however, is just complete nonsense. Foos aside, China still has Kane, Wong, Yip, Lockhart, Riche. Those are 7 forwards whose careers would have to take a seriously bad turn for them to get down to a level as low as Oberliga. The same applies to Chelios and Sproul on defense, they could easily play in the DEL. Half of their roster is at the level of top-tier European leagues. That they are not playing like it is a separate issue.

 

[Maverick41]

Thanks for the info. But of course, the main point, in this case, was that Dronia is available due to that series being over. In theory, at least.

That is true, and he still got it from what I have read and seen in highlights. Would love for him to play for the national team again.

 

[SoundAndFury]

That is true, and he still got it from what I have read and seen in highlights. Would love for him to play for the national team again.

Aaand as of today he is added to the roster. If Trinec wins today this is going to be the best Polish roster ever and, due to the circumstances, the best Polish chance to get to the Elite [again] ever. Tyczynski is the only one who maybe should also be there.

 

[aquaregia]

Surely Eye of Ra can't still be too disappointed in view of this showing so far

 

[Albatros]

Im a bit mad at Nikola Pasic and Dragan Umicevic thought. Both of them will never be team Sweden level. They should play for Serbia. They have serbian parents and speaks fluent serbian. Both of them said they feel serbian as much as they feel swedish. But yeah they are born and grow up in Sweden both of them and speaks fluent swedish. But it would be nice if they choosed to play for Serbia.

I wonder if having Nikola Pasic and Dragan Umicevic would be enough for the serbs to advance to 1A? Serious question.

I can't imagine they would want to quit their pro careers in order to play for Serbia in four years.