GDT: 2023-24 season game 36 LA Kings vs Washington Capitals @12:00pm 1/7/24

[AbsentMojo]

It really shouldn't have been a disruption of more than one pairing

but naturally TM dynamited everything to make it work--blowing up one of the best pairings in the leauge and benching arguably the best performing 3rd pairing d in the league

the problem is Englund isnt good enough to carry Clarke. Are you saying 3rd pair is Spence and Clarke? Otherwise, if you want to keep Gavi/Roy you have to split up DD and Mikey which would be fine w me.. but DD ends up on the 3rd pairing.. that will never fly.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Make Englund the 7?

The Kings are the softest forward group in the entire NHL and on D without Englund.

Teams that were softer than the Kings last year - Detroit, Carolina, and Buffalo all added players because they got run and pushed around (Kostin, Lemieux, Bunting, and Greenway).

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Make Englund the 7?

The Kings are the softest forward group in the entire NHL and on D without Englund.

Teams that were softer than the Kings last year - Detroit, Carolina, and Buffalo all added players because they got run and pushed around (Kostin, Lemieux, Bunting, and Greenway).

Yep, Lemieux and his 14 games played are making the difference for Carolina

Almost as good as Klostin and his 23 games...

 

[Johnny Utah]

Kostin was playing every game until he got injured.

Carolina has Bunting and DeAngelo. We don’t even have those type of players either…

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

the problem is Englund isnt good enough to carry Clarke. Are you saying 3rd pair is Spence and Clarke? Otherwise, if you want to keep Gavi/Roy you have to split up DD and Mikey which would be fine w me.. but DD ends up on the 3rd pairing.. that will never fly.

If he's good enough for Spence he's good enough for Clarke

whatever configuartion of those 3 would have been fine especially given TM was moving those bottom 4 all around anyway

but instead he big brained it and blew up arguably the best dpair in the NHL

 

[AbsentMojo]

If he's good enough for Spence he's good enough for Clarke

whatever configuartion of those 3 would have been fine especially given TM was moving those bottom 4 all around anyway

but instead he big brained it and blew up arguably the best dpair in the NHL

ya maybe youre right. Breaking up d-pairs is risky business they get used to each others habits.. as is always the case I do not think the win-now mentality will put up with much of the inevitable growing pains Clarke will exhibit... and there is the problem with this team - they need to develop but will be sphincter tight on any issues. Did u notice Clarke head bowed beating himself up after Dubois turnover leading to 3rd goal? I just hope they give the kid some slack.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

ya maybe youre right. Breaking up d-pairs is risky business they get used to each others habits.. as is always the case I do not think the win-now mentality will put up with much of the inevitable growing pains Clarke will exhibit... and there is the problem with this team - they need to develop but will be sphincter tight on any issues. Did u notice Clarke head bowed beating himself up after Dubois turnover leading to 3rd goal? I just hope they give the kid some slack.

Yea, because he realized he broke up ice way too early.....it is what it is, he wasn't to blame, but he did make a mistake, good to see him recognize it....they kept playing him

 

[All The Kings Men]

he realized he broke up ice way too early

Did he? That's the second time I've seen that said...

He's stationary here.

Then he's the furthest back between him and Gavrikov as Dubois turns it over.

Then comes close to breaking up the pass but just misses and winds up falling down leaving Strome uncovered to receive the pass back from Ovechkin.

Could he have played it slightly more conservative? Sure I suppose.... but did he "break up ice" too early?

I dunno bout all that.

 

[Choralone]

I blame the stupid scheduling that cooled the Kings for 2 weeks when they were a machine up to that point.

 

[tny760]

god what an electric pass

truly a PLD moment

 

[Brownie to Pancakes]

99.8% blame on PLD, .2% on Clarke. Why even discuss the latter

 

[King'sPawn]

99.8% blame on PLD, .2% on Clarke. Why even discuss the latter

Because some people prefer to blame rookies for all things wrong.

Incidentally, they seem to think McLellan and Blake don't make errors, and anyone who questoons them doesn't know about hockey.

 

[bland]

Did he? That's the second time I've seen that said...

View attachment 798942

He's stationary here.

View attachment 798944

Then he's the furthest back between him and Gavrikov as Dubois turns it over.


View attachment 798946
Then comes close to breaking up the pass but just misses and winds up falling down leaving Strome uncovered to receive the pass back from Ovechkin.

Could he have played it slightly more conservative? Sure I suppose.... but did he "break up ice" too early?

I dunno bout all that.

Clarke absolutely went too early. How is that even debatable? Its the exact kind of play that has made Karlsson a defensive liability throughout his career.

Its a terrific bonus to get production out of your defense, but you cannot play with an offense-first mentality from that position. Its why I would never want a Karlsson on my team. Sure, it would be awesome if Shaq could hit 50% of his three pointers, but you need him down low to fulfill the responsibilities of the position. Karlsson regulary eschews what you NEED from a defenseman to bring outrageous amounts of what you WANT.

Clarke needed to stay back there, but he wanted to make it a 4 on 2. He will learn.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

so we're going to lay that all on Clarke--and not Gavrikov either? Or any of the other dudes already at the red line?

I think there's a reasonable expectation that your teammate isn't going to shoot you in the dick. Like sure "where is everyone going" but "f***ing Clarke" is a Todd McLellan take on that play.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Clarke absolutely went too early. How is that even debatable?

You're using awfully strong language for a split second decision. Gavrikov and Clarke combined to creat the turnover and Dubois has it for less than a second before the puck is turned over again back to Washington.

He didn't "went" anywhere, he was like 3 inches behind breaking up the pass again.

Clarke needed to stay back there, but he wanted to make it a 4 on 2. He will learn.

Is it not a full line error? Clarke was the furthest one back of the other 4 players on the ice.

Just out of curiosity in your estimation what is the "correct" way for him to have played that 2 second (at best) stretch of the game?

Specifically what should he have physically done?

 

[King'sPawn]

Clarke absolutely went too early. How is that even debatable? Its the exact kind of play that has made Karlsson a defensive liability throughout his career.

Its a terrific bonus to get production out of your defense, but you cannot play with an offense-first mentality from that position. Its why I would never want a Karlsson on my team. Sure, it would be awesome if Shaq could hit 50% of his three pointers, but you need him down low to fulfill the responsibilities of the position. Karlsson regulary eschews what you NEED from a defenseman to bring outrageous amounts of what you WANT.

Clarke needed to stay back there, but he wanted to make it a 4 on 2. He will learn.

Moments before Jesse's second to last photo, Dubois has control, Kempe breaking, and 4 Capitals players in the zone.

We can criticize Clarke for jumping too early, but that goal's not on him. He could have not moved at all and been unable to intercept any of the passes.

 

[Brownie to Pancakes]

Honestly the 2 caps that got completely marooned back there made the biggest mistake of the play. Like where on earth do they think they are? Clarke would have to skate back toward his goalie to pick those two schmucks up. Instead he smells their error and anticipates--god forbid--a scoring chance the other way. If PLD takes one of his other 500 options and Clarke pots one as the trailer we're all praising his recognition and instincts

 

[bland]

so we're going to lay that all on Clarke--and not Gavrikov either? Or any of the other dudes already at the red line?

I think there's a reasonable expectation that your teammate isn't going to shoot you in the dick. Like sure "where is everyone going" but "f***ing Clarke" is a Todd McLellan take on that play.

Honestly, as a defenseman you have to better aware of what's going on around you. You have to play that position with the assumption that something will go wrong, because it is your responsibility to stay back to defend. Once that pass connects and you can see that the puck is getting out of the zone, then you can join. If you see that you have cover, then you can be more aggressive. Clarke didn't do either, he just hit the gas. You can't be the last man back with the puck at the dots with two attackers behind you and go for it. This is basic stuff, and the kinds of things we would blast Durzi for on the regular.

Chalk it up to inexperience and the enthusiasm of a kid who wants to be a difference maker.

Moments before Jesse's second to last photo, Dubois has control, Kempe breaking, and 4 Capitals players in the zone.

We can criticize Clarke for jumping too early, but that goal's not on him. He could have not moved at all and been unable to intercept any of the passes.

Never said that goal was on Clarke, but he simply did not play it right. No need to sugar coat it, he has to make these kinds of mistakes to learn.

 

[Nasti]

Just saw the Dubois giveaway. What a pathetic effort to recover.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Did he? That's the second time I've seen that said...

View attachment 798942

He's stationary here.

View attachment 798944

Then he's the furthest back between him and Gavrikov as Dubois turns it over.


View attachment 798946
Then comes close to breaking up the pass but just misses and winds up falling down leaving Strome uncovered to receive the pass back from Ovechkin.

Could he have played it slightly more conservative? Sure I suppose.... but did he "break up ice" too early?

I dunno bout all that.

Appreciate it in pictures, your 2nd picture, 100% he broke up the ice too early, that's his instinct, it's fine, he's an offensive Dman, he sees the play goin that way, he's gonna jump.....but he also has to recognize he's last man back...with 2 caps behind him, thats not the situation to jump....and he did,

It's a 20 year old who made a mistake, is the goal on him, not by a thousand years, but it's something he has to recognize to be a stand out in the league...

Clarke absolutely went too early. How is that even debatable? Its the exact kind of play that has made Karlsson a defensive liability throughout his career.

Its a terrific bonus to get production out of your defense, but you cannot play with an offense-first mentality from that position. Its why I would never want a Karlsson on my team. Sure, it would be awesome if Shaq could hit 50% of his three pointers, but you need him down low to fulfill the responsibilities of the position. Karlsson regulary eschews what you NEED from a defenseman to bring outrageous amounts of what you WANT.

Clarke needed to stay back there, but he wanted to make it a 4 on 2. He will learn.

First time you and I agree about something

You're using awfully strong language for a split second decision. Gavrikov and Clarke combined to creat the turnover and Dubois has it for less than a second before the puck is turned over again back to Washington.

He didn't "went" anywhere, he was like 3 inches behind breaking up the pass again.

Is it not a full line error? Clarke was the furthest one back of the other 4 players on the ice.

Just out of curiosity in your estimation what is the "correct" way for him to have played that 2 second (at best) stretch of the game?

Specifically what should he have physically done?

It's 100% a full line error, with maybe the exception of the two wings completely out of the picture, Dubois f***ed the dog by trying to make that pass, Gavrikov and Clarke f***ed a much much smaller dog...by jumping early and leaving 2 caps behind them.

 

[kilowatt]

How is anyone possibly blaming Clarke on this play when our $8.5 million superstar is the direct cause for this goal against? At this point, I think Dubois should watch tomorrow's game from the press box and put JAD in his place. We'd get the exact same production.

 

[bland]

How is anyone possibly blaming Clarke on this play when our $8.5 million superstar is the direct cause for this goal against? At this point, I think Dubois should watch tomorrow's game from the press box and put JAD in his place. We'd get the exact same production.

Is someone blaming Clarke?

 

[King'sPawn]

Never said that goal was on Clarke, but he simply did not play it right. No need to sugar coat it, he has to make these kinds of mistakes to learn.

Not sure how he's supposed to learn from a "mistake" when it had no bearing on the goal against.

Your teammate has control, you're ready to break out. McLellan tells his defensemen to activate. It's why Gavrikov was also getting ready to attack even though he should be the buffer.

Yes, he could have ignored instincts and the coach's direction and seen the future that PLD was going to give up the puck, so he would have dropped back and tried to cover the passing lane. It was still a 2-on-1 down low.

If Clarke misplaying it was reasonably preventable, I'd join in with calling out the error. I'd rather focus on the actual mistakes. Like the $8.5 million vet giving the puck away, or Roy misplaying the 2-on-1. You know. Basic stuff veterans should know better about.

But sure, keep focusing on calling out Clarke's involvement.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

How is anyone possibly blaming Clarke on this play when our $8.5 million superstar is the direct cause for this goal against? At this point, I think Dubois should watch tomorrow's game from the press box and put JAD in his place. We'd get the exact same production.

No one is blaming Clarke...quit being so defensive.....he made a mistake, he needs to learn from it, THAT is what people are saying...

 

[bland]

You're using awfully strong language for a split second decision. Gavrikov and Clarke combined to creat the turnover and Dubois has it for less than a second before the puck is turned over again back to Washington.

He didn't "went" anywhere, he was like 3 inches behind breaking up the pass again.

Is it not a full line error? Clarke was the furthest one back of the other 4 players on the ice.

Just out of curiosity in your estimation what is the "correct" way for him to have played that 2 second (at best) stretch of the game?

Specifically what should he have physically done?

I am not going to dissect the whole thing, its a rarity. Dubois made a dumb decision and it cost the team. I will address Clarke here because that's what we are talking about.

He is already out of position in the 2nd pic you posted, but ideally he stays right there until the puck is going to be clearly exited smoothly. Its likely just unfamiliarity with Gavrikov and Dubois tendencies.

I would say its certain language, not strong. Basic defense, taught in camps, clinics and by coaches alike, tells you that you never want to be parallel to your defensive partner, you ideally want to be staggered because one pass can beat you both in a split second. Undoubtedly thats why Clarke hung his head there, he knew he cheated and lost.

And its not a split second decision, its choosing to ignore a fundamental part of the position in favor of a scoring chance. Happens all the time with big point producing defenders. You have to allow room for something to go wrong as a defenseman. Any number of things can happen on that kind of play. It happens a dozen times every night. That pass could have been tipped into Gavrikov's skates, Gavrikov could have whiffed his next pass, a defender could have made a great play - you don't leave your position because Dubois might blow a tire or try to force a backhanded pass into traffic. Somebody has to be the safety valve in case something goes wrong, and on that play Clarke was that guy but he cheated.

Watch the breakouts in the next few games, and you'll see staggered defense partners and somebody holding back. Its just a matter of routine. This is just something that young puck movers need to learn, and it isn't "real" until it is.