Speculation: 2023-2024 General Lightning Discussion - Thread title week to week on IR

[Point21]

I was thinking about it at work today. Those wrestling avatars are gonna be freaking sweet

Kuch, Vasy and Sergy are Imperium!!!

 

[Point21]

 

[Hockeyville USA]

I feel like we've got to get some term (or will sign for that).

A smaller consideration is being able to withstand some expansion drafts over the next few years. Maybe like Utah in 2025 and Atlanta in 2027. We're going to have to expose some good players again.

Another friendly reminder that the NHL should stay at 32 teams. I know they probably won't, but this will piss me off if/when it happens

 

[JTBF81]

Hanifin and Tanev will be straight rentals and likely cost too much to acquire. From the above list, either Duclair or Barabanov would help the middle 6 and wouldn't be that pricy, so even if they are a rental so be it. Walker and Seeler would be good adds from Philly, but only if Tampa felt good about extending them. Lyubushkin as a rental would be solid and not cost a ton more than likely. I hope they stay far away from either Savard or Barrie though.

 

[These Are The Days]

Would be very fitting for everyone to agree on wrestling avatars only to then miss the playoffs.

Bah. The Lightning could win the next 25 games and the masses will decide that "on paper" is not only still somehow hilarious but clever enough to do twice after the CBJ debacle


You people who hate wrestling avis so damn much (and for no reason I might add) would have only had to deal with it for 4 games

 

[OffBy1]

I don’t act like he needs to be on the top line here , the fact is has must be to score. Gain I point out that when Coop moved him down to the 2nd line he went 19 games without a goal that’s 1/4 of a season. If memory serves he only had 4 assts in that period as well I would have to go look that up again but it’s close if not correct.

Now let’s decide what is a point per game guy worth in todays cap constraints? But before that consider the articleHockey news that ppg players are becoming common place. Last season there were 30 guys over a point per thus far this season with players over 30 games I counted 36 over a point per game. So is it common place???? Well I don’t know if that is 100% true because there are teams that have no ppg guys and other teams having two or three. How is salary broken down and the impact on the rest of the team is a thing. Now this is assuming Hagel makes it to the ppg level looking at his body of work he has been a complementary player. I have had many times over the years seeing Point, Kuch or Stammer just taking the team on their back to wins. I have not felt that way once with Hagel. When it comes to expectations guys it’s contracts 6 mil or more per must perform in all situations. Now with that said other than Kuch no one else has met expectations. This is not to say every player has to have a career year each year and there’s plenty of criticism to spread out on this team. Currently Stammer has more points that Hagel yet there are those who are ready to move on from him if he does not take a drastic haircut on salary. Killer was allowed to walk because he got 5 mil????? The main focus was a youth movement which in this case should not apply. For three years all the clamoring about ABB was all over this board, I was on an island being the only one that saw he was not a nhl player. While Hagel if a NHL guy the homerism is high on him . I think he will settle out at 20 goals 50 points long term worth 4 to 4.5 mil. He could be paid 5 if it were not for other overpayments on the roster.

Here’s the thing somehow the roster has to be upgraded or lose the best years of Point, Kuch and Vasy otherwise what’s the sense of having them? It’s pretty common to o see upper level talent become disgruntled and we could see a couple pissed off Russians if the roster does not get better. Righ now we have 3 gups capable to pot 40 goals any given season and gave 100 points each. But scoring below them and Hagel is lethargic. So yes I have higher expectations of Hagel we all should.


I don’t act like he needs to be on the top line here , the fact is has must be to score. I point out that when Coop moved him down to the 2nd line he went 19 games without a goal that’s 1/4 of a season. If memory serves he only had 4 assts in that period as well I would have to go look that up again but it’s close if not correct.

Now let’s decide what is a point per game guy worth in todays cap constraints? But before that consider the articleHockey news that ppg players are becoming common place. Last season there were 30 guys over a point per thus far this season with players over 30 games I counted 36 over a point per game. So is it common place???? Well I don’t know if that is

So your reasons are:
1. Hagel has to be on the top line to score - this is verifiably wrong. He has 10 goals in his last 21 games since his 19 game goalless streak - all while he was on the 2nd line. And for the record, he had 8 assists during that 19 game goalless streak.
2. Hagel doesn't "take over games" in your opinion like Point and Kuch - who are paid 3 mil more per year than him. They are the two best forwards on our team. You know who's the next best forward? Hagel. Just because he isn't elite doesn't mean he's not really good and his 6.5 mil cap number and his performance reflects that.
3. Players who make 6 mil "must perform in all situations". Hagel is 3rd on the team in PK time, and yeah, more than one of his goals has been empty netters because Coop trusts him to close out games. He scored 30 goals last year and has 48 points in 53 games this year, almost all at even strength. He has few PP points because he gets a third of the PP time Nick Paul does - probably because of all the PK time he logs. So, wrong here again.
4. You think he's going to average 20 goals, 50 points and should only be paid 4-5 mil. You left out, like you always do, how good he is defensively - see he PK time and the fact Cooper has him out there closing out games. He's been better than that offensively last year and this year - 30 goals, 60m points, and on pace for 70 this year while mostly playing on the 2nd line. Can you find a two-way player with 2 years like that who signed for 4-5 mil for 8 years?

Let's look at some other wingers paid similarly to Hagel:
Brad Marchand - paid .5 mil less and same point total, 21 on the PP.
Chris Kreider - paid the same and has the same point total in 52 games, 16 on the PP.
Jake Guentzel - paid .5 mil less and has 51 points in 49 games, 13 on the PP.
Brock Besser - paid .15 mil more, has 54 points in 53 games, 19 on the PP.

Are these guys underachievers to you? Hagel would have more points than them if he got the PP time they did. Again, Hagel is currently at .91 ppg with only 6 coming from the PP. You will ignore this like you have every other time I've pointed it out to you though.

To help you understand what a winger not living up to their paycheck looks like:
Brendan Gallagher - 8 mil, 16 points in 48 games.
Alex Killorn - 6.25 mil, .556 ppg.
Anders Lee - 7 mil, 20 points in 52 games.
Ondrej Palat - 6.25 mil, .48 ppg.

You were right on ABB, congrats. You're wrong thus far about Hagel and you look silly declaring it to be homerism when people disagree with you. The reasons you presented are either intangible opinions or verifiably wrong.

 

[Major4Boarding]

Howard, Thompson, Goncalves, Lilleberg (he will graduate from that status in a couple weeks), Huuhtanen, Crozier, Gauthier, Carlile, Pylenkov, Groshev.

Agreed with the above - Although, I'm not entirely on board with Pylenkov just yet

Also - in the void that is Boltprospects.com at the moment, this account does a pretty good job of staying on top of everyone. Give them a follow (see below)

Future Bolts

 

[Point21]

Tampa added to a few players on the list IE: Hanifin, Barabanov, Barrie
Trade Watch List 2024 — The Fourth Period

 

[Felonious Python]

 

[DFC]

Geesh, of all the problems this team has why are we sttiiilllll talking about Hagel? He’s one of the most effective players I’ve ever seen in any role you give him.

We need help on the bottom 6. Motte, Glendening, and Ace are fine; let’s add Jeannot to that group, but then we have a carousel of ineffective fill ins. We need 1-2 guys who are real difference makers. There are guys out there, and if Fleury shows some consistency our LHD situation could be the second biggest hole on the team and not a priority

Lol, I know. The guy outplaying his contract by the widest margin outside of Kucherov, "but he doesnt score on the second line." Well the top line doesnt score as much without him.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

So your reasons are:
1. Hagel has to be on the top line to score - this is verifiably wrong. He has 10 goals in his last 21 games since his 19 game goalless streak - all while he was on the 2nd line. And for the record, he had 8 assists during that 19 game goalless streak.
2. Hagel doesn't "take over games" in your opinion like Point and Kuch - who are paid 3 mil more per year than him. They are the two best forwards on our team. You know who's the next best forward? Hagel. Just because he isn't elite doesn't mean he's not really good and his 6.5 mil cap number and his performance reflects that.
3. Players who make 6 mil "must perform in all situations". Hagel is 3rd on the team in PK time, and yeah, more than one of his goals has been empty netters because Coop trusts him to close out games. He scored 30 goals last year and has 48 points in 53 games this year, almost all at even strength. He has few PP points because he gets a third of the PP time Nick Paul does - probably because of all the PK time he logs. So, wrong here again.
4. You think he's going to average 20 goals, 50 points and should only be paid 4-5 mil. You left out, like you always do, how good he is defensively - see he PK time and the fact Cooper has him out there closing out games. He's been better than that offensively last year and this year - 30 goals, 60m points, and on pace for 70 this year while mostly playing on the 2nd line. Can you find a two-way player with 2 years like that who signed for 4-5 mil for 8 years?

Let's look at some other wingers paid similarly to Hagel:
Brad Marchand - paid .5 mil less and same point total, 21 on the PP.
Chris Kreider - paid the same and has the same point total in 52 games, 16 on the PP.
Jake Guentzel - paid .5 mil less and has 51 points in 49 games, 13 on the PP.
Brock Besser - paid .15 mil more, has 54 points in 53 games, 19 on the PP.

Are these guys underachievers to you? Hagel would have more points than them if he got the PP time they did. Again, Hagel is currently at .91 ppg with only 6 coming from the PP. You will ignore this like you have every other time I've pointed it out to you though.

To help you understand what a winger not living up to their paycheck looks like:
Brendan Gallagher - 8 mil, 16 points in 48 games.
Alex Killorn - 6.25 mil, .556 ppg.
Anders Lee - 7 mil, 20 points in 52 games.
Ondrej Palat - 6.25 mil, .48 ppg.

You were right on ABB, congrats. You're wrong thus far about Hagel and you look silly declaring it to be homerism when people disagree with you. The reasons you presented are either intangible opinions or verifiably wrong.

Brendan Gallagher is making $6.5 million

 

[OffBy1]

Brendan Gallagher is making $6.5 million

Thanks for the correction, I looked at his salary rather than his cap hit.

 

[The Gongshow]

I was thinking about it at work today. Those wrestling avatars are gonna be freaking sweet

Oh my sweet sumer child

 

[The Gongshow]

TB is all over this. Hanifin, Tanev, Barabanov, Walker, Lyubushkin, Savard, and Barrie.

Hanifin gonna cost way too much. But would love to sign him in the off season. He'll be expensive ofcourse but is still quote young and actually a shutdown dman, which we need desperately.

 

[Rschmitz]

Hanifin gonna cost way too much. But would love to sign him in the off season. He'll be expensive ofcourse but is still quote young and actually a shutdown dman, which we need desperately.

He's a LD so that won't happen. We could use a really good shut down bottom pairing Dman though depending on if we believe Lilleberg or Perbix should be retained.

I expect the additions that come this offseason will be at forward, unless we trade someone

 

[RDTBay4]

Tampa added to a few players on the list IE: Hanifin, Barabanov, Barrie
Trade Watch List 2024 — The Fourth Period

Based on this list, and the player salaries, we could really make some serious deadline moves with Sergachev's cap chunk off the board.

Unfortunately, I don't know what the hell we could possibly offer these teams.

I honestly don't follow other team's players much, but after looking over that list Hanifin seems like the ideal target to go after. Considering he's #1 on the list, it's not surprising.

 

[These Are The Days]

Oh my sweet sumer child

Our catch line is gonna be "We got two words for you"

 

[Hockeyville USA]

He's a LD so that won't happen. We could use a really good shut down bottom pairing Dman though depending on if we believe Lilleberg or Perbix should be retained.

I expect the additions that come this offseason will be at forward, unless we trade someone

Lilleberg should be retained, although they need to play him fewer minutes

 

[The Gongshow]

He's a LD so that won't happen. We could use a really good shut down bottom pairing Dman though depending on if we believe Lilleberg or Perbix should be retained.

I expect the additions that come this offseason will be at forward, unless we trade someone

Pipe dream, I know, but Serg could play RD shifts with Him and with Hedman as well as LD on 3rd pairings to still get his 20+ minutes a night like when we had McD. It's alot of money on the backend tho, but cap is going up!

 

[Rschmitz]

Pipe dream, I know, but Serg could play RD shifts with Him and with Hedman as well as LD on 3rd pairings to still get his 20+ minutes a night like when we had McD. It's alot of money on the backend tho, but cap is going up!

Some team is going to give Hanifin 10m+ and that would simply break us, as nice as it is to imagine.

I remember a few years back, EK to Tampa as a pipedream almost happened. I still have wet dreams over that having almost happened.

Lilleberg should be retained, although they need to play him fewer minutes

Yeah he's a keeper, but if we bring in a top tier LD he's the obvious casualty unless we get creative with Serg. That's why I think we stay pat on the defense front

 

[Stammertime91]

Haven't watched Hanifin much this year bit I remember Calgary fans calling him soft last year. Not entirely sold on him.

 

[Meuracas]

Oh my sweet sumer child

I don’t think he’s that old :_)

 

[Rschmitz]

I don’t think he’s that old :_)

Nice historical reference

 

[Outl4w]

So your reasons are:
1. Hagel has to be on the top line to score - this is verifiably wrong. He has 10 goals in his last 21 games since his 19 game goalless streak - all while he was on the 2nd line. And for the record, he had 8 assists during that 19 game goalless streak.
2. Hagel doesn't "take over games" in your opinion like Point and Kuch - who are paid 3 mil more per year than him. They are the two best forwards on our team. You know who's the next best forward? Hagel. Just because he isn't elite doesn't mean he's not really good and his 6.5 mil cap number and his performance reflects that.
3. Players who make 6 mil "must perform in all situations". Hagel is 3rd on the team in PK time, and yeah, more than one of his goals has been empty netters because Coop trusts him to close out games. He scored 30 goals last year and has 48 points in 53 games this year, almost all at even strength. He has few PP points because he gets a third of the PP time Nick Paul does - probably because of all the PK time he logs. So, wrong here again.
4. You think he's going to average 20 goals, 50 points and should only be paid 4-5 mil. You left out, like you always do, how good he is defensively - see he PK time and the fact Cooper has him out there closing out games. He's been better than that offensively last year and this year - 30 goals, 60m points, and on pace for 70 this year while mostly playing on the 2nd line. Can you find a two-way player with 2 years like that who signed for 4-5 mil for 8 years?

Let's look at some other wingers paid similarly to Hagel:
Brad Marchand - paid .5 mil less and same point total, 21 on the PP.
Chris Kreider - paid the same and has the same point total in 52 games, 16 on the PP.
Jake Guentzel - paid .5 mil less and has 51 points in 49 games, 13 on the PP.
Brock Besser - paid .15 mil more, has 54 points in 53 games, 19 on the PP.

Are these guys underachievers to you? Hagel would have more points than them if he got the PP time they did. Again, Hagel is currently at .91 ppg with only 6 coming from the PP. You will ignore this like you have every other time I've pointed it out to you though.

To help you understand what a winger not living up to their paycheck looks like:
Brendan Gallagher - 8 mil, 16 points in 48 games.
Alex Killorn - 6.25 mil, .556 ppg.
Anders Lee - 7 mil, 20 points in 52 games.
Ondrej Palat - 6.25 mil, .48 ppg.

You were right on ABB, congrats. You're wrong thus far about Hagel and you look silly declaring it to be homerism when people disagree with you. The reasons you presented are either intangible opinions or verifiably wrong.

Hagel earns his paycheck and is in the top 10 for ev 5v5 points. I don't see point Stamkos, or cirelli there this year.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Wouldn't mind bringing back Johnson if the price is right, something like a 4th with them retaining 20%. Would make it a 3rd if they took Sheary back. We need a C on the 3rd line, while he's not a full time C anymore, he's better than what we got. He also should be able to step in right away since he's familiar with the system so easy transition.