Speculation: 2023-2024 General Lightning Discussion - Thread title week to week on IR

[Outl4w]

Wouldn't mind bringing back Johnson if the price is right, something like a 4th with them retaining 20%. Would make it a 3rd if they took Sheary back. We need a C on the 3rd line, while he's not a full time C anymore, he's better than what we got. He also should be able to step in right away since he's familiar with the system so easy transition.

Sheary, Myers , and a later pick 3rd or or later would be great for this year . Do we have a third?

 

[HoseEmDown]

Sheary, Myers , and a later pick 3rd or or later would be great for this year . Do we have a third?

We do have a 3rd but no 1st, 2nd or 4th so I would trade a 25 but preferably the 26 3rd since no 1st next year. No need to add Myers either as he's just a 250k hit for us and playing well in Syracuse. So unless we want to save on the cash I would keep him. If Sheary goes the other way we don't need retention either but some would be nice if we want to add another piece or two.

 

[JTBF81]

We do have a 3rd but no 1st, 2nd or 4th so I would trade a 25 but preferably the 26 3rd since no 1st next year. No need to add Myers either as he's just a 250k hit for us and playing well in Syracuse. So unless we want to save on the cash I would keep him. If Sheary goes the other way we don't need retention either but some would be nice if we want to add another piece or two.

Sheary is very unlikely to waive his full ntc for the glorious destination of Chicago.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Sheary is very unlikely to waive his full ntc for the glorious destination of Chicago.

He can use that NTC all he wants now because in 6 months he's out the door. So Chicago with Bedard is a lot better than other places we can send him.

 

[Stammertime91]

The Jeannot trade was such a gaffe. Imagine having those assets this year when we can afford more than a slice of wonder bread. Those are the kinds of trades that significantly reduce a teams chances to compete. Fewer options because of a bad trade can lower a seasons potential, which isn't helping with Stamkos and Hedman in the mid 30s range. Then you factor in the trade was for a 4th liner worse offensively than Pat Maroon, who you had, and traded away. Maroon is a bigger presence than Jeannot even though he's a lousy fighter.

Someone in the GDT mentioned Motte being disappointing. Idk. He's underwhelming offensively but that was known. We got him last minute for like league minimum to replace a guy that stepped away from the game. The biggest blunders by JBB have been the Jeannot trade and Sheary signing. Failing to bring in a middle six winger with those assets and cap space is hurting us.

 

[JTBF81]

He can use that NTC all he wants now because in 6 months he's out the door. So Chicago with Bedard is a lot better than other places we can send him.

It's still a partial ntc(15 or 16 teams I believe), so while yes, there may be worse places he could end up than Chicago, it still seems doubtful he's waiving this season to go there because who would leave a team like Tampa for Chicago at this point.

 

[Stelio Kontos]

Wouldn't mind bringing back Johnson if the price is right, something like a 4th with them retaining 20%. Would make it a 3rd if they took Sheary back. We need a C on the 3rd line, while he's not a full time C anymore, he's better than what we got. He also should be able to step in right away since he's familiar with the system so easy transition.

#anyonebutsheary

 

[Hockeyville USA]

The Jeannot trade was such a gaffe. Imagine having those assets this year when we can afford more than a slice of wonder bread. Those are the kinds of trades that significantly reduce a teams chances to compete. Fewer options because of a bad trade can lower a seasons potential, which isn't helping with Stamkos and Hedman in the mid 30s range. Then you factor in the trade was for a 4th liner worse offensively than Pat Maroon, who you had, and traded away. Maroon is a bigger presence than Jeannot even though he's a lousy fighter.

Someone in the GDT mentioned Motte being disappointing. Idk. He's underwhelming offensively but that was known. We got him last minute for like league minimum to replace a guy that stepped away from the game. The biggest blunders by JBB have been the Jeannot trade and Sheary signing. Failing to bring in a middle six winger with those assets and cap space is hurting us.

Evan Rodrigues, Danton Heinen, Daniel Sprong, James Van Riemsdyk all would have been nice.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

The Jeannot trade was such a gaffe. Imagine having those assets this year when we can afford more than a slice of wonder bread. Those are the kinds of trades that significantly reduce a teams chances to compete. Fewer options because of a bad trade can lower a seasons potential, which isn't helping with Stamkos and Hedman in the mid 30s range. Then you factor in the trade was for a 4th liner worse offensively than Pat Maroon, who you had, and traded away. Maroon is a bigger presence than Jeannot even though he's a lousy fighter.

Someone in the GDT mentioned Motte being disappointing. Idk. He's underwhelming offensively but that was known. We got him last minute for like league minimum to replace a guy that stepped away from the game. The biggest blunders by JBB have been the Jeannot trade and Sheary signing. Failing to bring in a middle six winger with those assets and cap space is hurting us.

trade was awful, but the other trades wow made over the runs were epic so we can't knock JBB too hard

 

[Felonious Python]

Just throwing this out there, but Jeannot played best for Minnesota Wild coach John Hynes.

Dan Lambert was also on the Preds staff, he's an assistant now with Calgary.

 

[Stammertime91]

trade was awful, but the other trades wow made over the runs were epic so we can't knock JBB too hard

Yeah of course. I'm in no way upset with him or on the fire JBB train at all, it's just that these kinds of trades cannot happen. I'd say as much as Goodrow and Coleman moved the needle for us in a positive direction, the Jeannot trade did the opposite. When he's in the lineup, he's not much more than a typical 4th line guy. Yes, he hits but Maroon was more effective and dare I say, even slower than Jeannot.

He knocked it out of the park with Hagel. No GM is perfect, but you see short term and long term how franchises get crippled by constantly leveraging assets for shiny new toys. Jeannot was a shiny new toy and we've gotten burned by it so far. I'd much rather have the assets and acquire a middle six winger this season but we can't really afford it without gutting what little we have left.

 

[Master P]

I wonder if there are any middle six guys out there that are really good at playing in front of the net.

I don't think Paul is the answer unfortunately.

Come back Killer

 

[RussianGuyovich]

no, thank you. killorn has only played 34 games for the ducks and is currently out getting knee surgery.

JBB should be getting some credit for shipping out that jalopy.

 

[Master P]

no, thank you. killorn has only played 34 games for the ducks and is currently out getting knee surgery.

JBB should be getting some credit for shipping out that jalopy.

THEN FIND A REPLACMENT

 

[Hockeyville USA]

THEN FIND A REPLACMENT

Long term replacement is (hopefully) Dylan Duke

 

[The Gongshow]

The Jeannot trade was such a gaffe. Imagine having those assets this year when we can afford more than a slice of wonder bread. Those are the kinds of trades that significantly reduce a teams chances to compete. Fewer options because of a bad trade can lower a seasons potential, which isn't helping with Stamkos and Hedman in the mid 30s range. Then you factor in the trade was for a 4th liner worse offensively than Pat Maroon, who you had, and traded away. Maroon is a bigger presence than Jeannot even though he's a lousy fighter.

Someone in the GDT mentioned Motte being disappointing. Idk. He's underwhelming offensively but that was known. We got him last minute for like league minimum to replace a guy that stepped away from the game. The biggest blunders by JBB have been the Jeannot trade and Sheary signing. Failing to bring in a middle six winger with those assets and cap space is hurting us.

Preach. JBB fumbled the last 14 months pretty hard. Hindsight of course, but imagine they had all those picks for Noah Hanifin this TDL

 

[HoseEmDown]

Some people are ridiculous in here. So BriseBois is supposed to hold onto all his picks and hope one of his core pieces gets hurt so he can have cap room later in the season and then use those picks on a replacement? And use them on a player on an expiring deal, Hanifin, who you can't afford to re-sign but that's not throwing picks away but trading for a RFA who you did sign for several years is.

Also Sheary had 37 points last season. That's more than Van Reimsdyk and Heinen had and just 2 less than Rodrigues, who signed for more money and term. Sprong is the only one who you can make an argument for but he also had a career year last season and wasn't sure it was sustainable. Sometimes players just don't work out and Sheary isn't.

Maroon sucked last year. Jeannot in 42 games this year has roughly the same hits and points that he Maroon did in 80 last year. Just cause Maroon rebounded doesn't mean we should've held onto him when he looked finished. Us not having a competent 3C isn't helping any of our bottom 6 wings, Glendening is a good 4C but is not a point producer so his linemates aren't going to pad the stat sheet.

When it comes to picks BriseBois doesn't care about them. The drafting since the Cirelli one has been brutal, so he rather buy someone else's players because ours aren't contributing. Volkov(2nd) crap, Fortier(2nd) crap, Raddysh and Katchouk(2nd) kinda crap, Lipanov and Cajkovic(3rd) didn't even survive their ELC, late picks like Guttman and Walker didn't sign. Colton is the only good forward in that span. So BriseBois can't rely on prospects coming up to take a few open spots. Cooper also isn't the best when it comes to youth incorporating these days either.

 

[Felonious Python]

Maroon sucked last year. Jeannot in 42 games this year has roughly the same hits and points that he Maroon did in 80 last year. Just cause Maroon rebounded doesn't mean we should've held onto him when he looked finished. Us not having a competent 3C isn't helping any of our bottom 6 wings, Glendening is a good 4C but is not a point producer so his linemates aren't going to pad the stat sheet.

When it comes to picks BriseBois doesn't care about them. The drafting since the Cirelli one has been brutal, so he rather buy someone else's players because ours aren't contributing. Volkov(2nd) crap, Fortier(2nd) crap, Raddysh and Katchouk(2nd) kinda crap, Lipanov and Cajkovic(3rd) didn't even survive their ELC, late picks like Guttman and Walker didn't sign. Colton is the only good forward in that span. So BriseBois can't rely on prospects coming up to take a few open spots. Cooper also isn't the best when it comes to youth incorporating these days either.

I think it's interesting that Jeannot and Maroon both seem to play well under John Hynes.

 

[These Are The Days]

I'll say it again. We need to stop dogging JFBB about Jeannot and Sheary. I think everyone know the trade and signing alike were bad after like 30 games. But the blame falls on the players when you consider the other half dozen all in moves nearly amounted to a threepeat

I'm not defending trading 5 draft picks for a 4th liner as much as if this is the worst screw up he ever has then we are golden for years to come

 

[Stammertime91]

Some people are ridiculous in here. So BriseBois is supposed to hold onto all his picks and hope one of his core pieces gets hurt so he can have cap room later in the season and then use those picks on a replacement? And use them on a player on an expiring deal, Hanifin, who you can't afford to re-sign but that's not throwing picks away but trading for a RFA who you did sign for several years is.

Also Sheary had 37 points last season. That's more than Van Reimsdyk and Heinen had and just 2 less than Rodrigues, who signed for more money and term. Sprong is the only one who you can make an argument for but he also had a career year last season and wasn't sure it was sustainable. Sometimes players just don't work out and Sheary isn't.

Maroon sucked last year. Jeannot in 42 games this year has roughly the same hits and points that he Maroon did in 80 last year. Just cause Maroon rebounded doesn't mean we should've held onto him when he looked finished. Us not having a competent 3C isn't helping any of our bottom 6 wings, Glendening is a good 4C but is not a point producer so his linemates aren't going to pad the stat sheet.

When it comes to picks BriseBois doesn't care about them. The drafting since the Cirelli one has been brutal, so he rather buy someone else's players because ours aren't contributing. Volkov(2nd) crap, Fortier(2nd) crap, Raddysh and Katchouk(2nd) kinda crap, Lipanov and Cajkovic(3rd) didn't even survive their ELC, late picks like Guttman and Walker didn't sign. Colton is the only good forward in that span. So BriseBois can't rely on prospects coming up to take a few open spots. Cooper also isn't the best when it comes to youth incorporating these days either.

The trade was not dependent upon a significant injury to be ruled bad. It was bad at the moment, it was bad when Jeannot was playing this season too. Not a fan of Hanifin.

Agreed on Sheary, but three years? I mean, Sabres fans warned us. Is the pro scouting and JBB not on the same page to see his flaws? Because neither him or Jeannot move the needle for us. They are redundant pieces. In Jeannots case, he had Maroon and I'd say even Perry, to which he hasn't shown he's better than either. Bellemare wasn't a point producer either, yet Maroon, PEB, and Perry were very good (and then very bad). Maroon sucked last year while Jeannot was right there with him for five goals on the year. Kind of clutching at straws. Maroon didn't cost us five picks and a higher cap hit. Using those assets to upgrade a fourth liner is ridiculous.

Agreed on the last point but good Lord is the pro scouting watching with the film on half speed or something because there's no way someone looked at Tanner Jeannot, smacked the desk, and said "that's the guy we need." Our bottom six is an absolute bandaged up bag of shit. Between low scoring guys and redundant pieces, that's half the forward group incapable of doing f*** all game in and game out.

 

[LightningStrikes]

I'll say it again. We need to stop dogging JFBB about Jeannot and Sheary. I think everyone know the trade and signing alike were bad after like 30 games. But the blame falls on the players when you consider the other half dozen all in moves nearly amounted to a threepeat

I'm not defending trading 5 draft picks for a 4th liner as much as if this is the worst screw up he ever has then we are golden for years to come

You’re probably right and maybe it’s just selective memory but there have been several “huh” moments by JBB the past couple years:

The re-signings of Serg, Cernak and Cirelli that felt a bit too generous given our cap situation and roster makeup at the time. Yes of course, you reward the players that made you win two Cups in a row. But that was a lot of cap space gone for three non-star players.

The all-in trades on undoubtedly solid players on very favorable contracts that felt almost arrogant. Some eventually did pan out (Hagel) and some didn’t or haven’t yet (Jeannot). Given our cap situation I understand that we had to be creative and pay extra for the actual contract. But that’s a lot of bargaining chips gone for “let’s hope it will turn out like with Coleman” kind of scenarios.

Weird signings with NTCs unnecessarily thrown in (Sheary) or extensions two years in advance when the player hasn’t even played one game for the organization (Myers) or signings of players that had failed before with us and to no surprise didn’t work out the second time around (Namestnikov) etc.

Almost all signings during last offseason turned out to be disappointments while arguably better options at comparable cost were still available at the time.

We’ve lost bargaining chips (i.e. picks) and created new salary cap problems and have become what we didn’t want to become: A one-line team with no depth. If Kuch hadn’t activated god mode this season (on pace for insane 140 points btw) we’d be battling with Ottawa and Buffalo for last place in the division.

Of course it’s all hindsight and no GM is perfect. But there have been more than just a couple odd decisions.

 

[Felonious Python]

 

[These Are The Days]

You’re probably right and maybe it’s just selective memory but there have been several “huh” moments by JBB the past couple years:

The re-signings of Serg, Cernak and Cirelli that felt a bit too generous given our cap situation and roster makeup at the time. Yes of course, you reward the players that made you win two Cups in a row. But that was a lot of cap space gone for three non-star players.

The all-in trades on undoubtedly solid players on very favorable contracts that felt almost arrogant. Some eventually did pan out (Hagel) and some didn’t or haven’t not yet (Jeannot). Given our cap situation I understand that we had to be creative and pay extra for the actual contract. But that’s a lot of bargaining chips gone for “let’s hope it will turn out like with Coleman” kind of scenarios.

Weird signings with NTCs unnecessarily thrown in (Sheary) or extensions two years in advance when the player hasn’t even played one game for the organization (Myers) or signings of players that had failed before with us and to no surprise didn’t work out the second time around (Namestnikov) etc.

Almost all signings during last offseason turned out to be disappointments while arguably better options at comparable cost were still available at the time.

We’ve lost bargaining chips (i.e. picks) and created new salary cap problems and have become what we didn’t want to become: A one-line team with no depth. If Kuch hadn’t activated god mode this season (on pace for 140 points) we’d be battling with Ottawa and Buffalo for last place in the division.

Of course it’s all hindsight and no GM is perfect. But there have been more than just a couple odd decisions.

Battling Ottawa and Buffalo for last place falls squarely on the likes of Stamkos, Hedman, Vasy, Point, Paul, Cirelli, Cernak and Sergachev. That's like $60 million either being hurt all the time, being lazy, feeling sorry for themselves or simply playing down to their competition night after night after night "conserving energy"

I know JFBB has made a few had trades and signings but holy crap this is literally the beating heart of a team that needed like 9 dudes with injuries (that would have shelved anyone for months) in order to lose that threepeat to Colorado. A few redundant pieces and the loss of a broken down school bus isn't what did this to us. We are experiencing a redux of what happened as soon as we lost the Cup to the Hawks. The Lightning just want it to come easy for them now and it's being led by the very men who are supposed to lead by example. With the exception of Kucherov, Hagel and probably Raddysh (who just wasn't good at first) the whole lot of them has deserved an all expenses paid vacation to the sun

 

[Stammertime91]

Battling Ottawa and Buffalo for last place falls squarely on the likes of Stamkos, Hedman, Vasy, Point, Paul, Cirelli, Cernak and Sergachev. That's like $60 million either being hurt all the time, being lazy, feeling sorry for themselves or simply playing down to their competition night after night after night "conserving energy"

I know JFBB has made a few had trades and signings but holy crap this is literally the beating heart of a team that needed like 9 dudes with injuries (that would have shelved anyone for months) in order to lose that threepeat to Colorado. A few redundant pieces and the loss of a broken down school bus isn't what did this to us. We are experiencing a redux of what happened as soon as we lost the Cup to the Hawks. The Lightning just want it to come easy for them now and it's being led by the very men who are supposed to lead by example. With the exception of Kucherov, Hagel and probably Raddysh (who just wasn't good at first) the whole lot of them has deserved an all expenses paid vacation to the sun

And that didn't change with the same personnel though. That changed when character guys came in like Maroon, Shattenkirk, Schenn, Bogosian and so on. Both Maroon and Shattenkirk had interviews where they essentially said what you're saying, they felt sorry for themselves and its time to turn it around. They did, but they did it with new faces. This group does not have that leadership. Jeannot, Glendening, Ace, Chaffee, Merela, ABB, Sheary, Watson, Lilleberg, CDH, etc are not the leaders on this team. The same ones that got bounced in 2019 have now been deferred as the leaders and look at where we are.

Nobody can honestly say Rutta, Maroon, Bogosian, Shattenkirk, Schenn, McDonagh (except him), were world beaters. They fit because they had experience and weren't redundant pieces. The loss of depth and the school bus line is exactly why we are where we are. We lost every bit of depth we could afford and the dice we rolled on all the replacements have been rather inferior. Raddysh is the only guy I'd say looks like Shattenkirk but in the locker room, likely isn't. We lost loads of experience and winning mentalities when we moved on/lost all these guys.

It took time for Cooper to get them near the top and this team could maybe do it, but it lacks that championship pedigree. The core that won those cups is down to like four forwards, three defenseman, and Vasy. It's not the same team. Personnel is the issue.

 

[These Are The Days]

And that didn't change with the same personnel though. That changed when character guys came in like Maroon, Shattenkirk, Schenn, Bogosian and so on. Both Maroon and Shattenkirk had interviews where they essentially said what you're saying, they felt sorry for themselves and its time to turn it around. They did, but they did it with new faces. This group does not have that leadership. Jeannot, Glendening, Ace, Chaffee, Merela, ABB, Sheary, Watson, Lilleberg, CDH, etc are not the leaders on this team. The same ones that got bounced in 2019 have now been deferred as the leaders and look at where we are.

Nobody can honestly say Rutta, Maroon, Bogosian, Shattenkirk, Schenn, McDonagh (except him), were world beaters. They fit because they had experience and weren't redundant pieces. The loss of depth and the school bus line is exactly why we are where we are. We lost every bit of depth we could afford and the dice we rolled on all the replacements have been rather inferior. Raddysh is the only guy I'd say looks like Shattenkirk but in the locker room, likely isn't. We lost loads of experience and winning mentalities when we moved on/lost all these guys.

It took time for Cooper to get them near the top and this team could maybe do it, but it lacks that championship pedigree. The core that won those cups is down to like four forwards, three defenseman, and Vasy. It's not the same team. Personnel is the issue.

You're right about all of this. But my mind tracks to if guys like Stamkos need Pat Maroon to keep the ship right then we might as well move on from him. You don't need 7 co captains to win a Cup, just that many guys who comprise our nucleus to bust ass while the role players do their jobs.

Better, quality depth is going to help but it sounds like unless it's also some captain character we have no shot