Speculation: 2023-2024 General Lightning Discussion - Part 3

DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
47,163
23,251
NB
At this point, I don't think he'd be the one moved. If they were after Hanifin and lower end forwards on the market, they probably want to get back to 3 strong LD options. Agree to disagree among the board here of whether that's the logical way forward, but it seems like they were keen on adding another high end LD to two we already have. Thus, I don't think he's being considered for a trade - at all.
I doubt he's being considered at this point, but I disagree on the 3 strong LD options -- That was a thing BECAUSE Sergachev didn't make any money back then, not in spite of it.

With Hanafin off the table, I think we are still going to go looking for a defenseman, but nothing in that price range.

One of the bright spots of the season has been Darren Raddysh though. Seems like he's won himself a job on the right side.
 
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DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
47,163
23,251
NB
With the Wings all for sure being out of the playoffs, time to unretire my Kucherov jersey and yell loudly at my TV screen everytime Hagel scores in the final seconds to win games.

Can anyone give me a run down on the season the Lightning have had? This is the first year in 4 years I haven't been exclusively watching TBL games since the Wings were semi-competitive this year (still made it to five Lightning games this year, though).
Let me do my best...

Early Season
Vasy injured
Team sucks
Kucherov good

Mid Season
Vasy sucks
Team sucks
Kucherov awesome

Late Season
Vasy good/great
Team good/ok
Kucherov other-worldly



44-27-8
 

Rschmitz

Finding new ways to cheat
Feb 27, 2002
16,130
8,604
Tampa Bay
I'm totally content with

Hedman-Raddysh
Sergachev-Cernak
Lilleberg/Fleury-Perbix

Raddysh becoming a top 4 defenseman and Lilleberg being an NHL caliber defenseman has changed things a bit. We still need Sergachev to learn to play defense though
 
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DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
47,163
23,251
NB
I'm totally content with

Hedman-Raddysh
Sergachev-Cernak
Lilleberg/Fleury-Perbix

Raddysh becoming a top 4 defenseman and Lilleberg being an NHL caliber defenseman has changed things a bit. We still need Sergachev to learn to play defense though
Honestly, I'm at a point where I'd be open to trading Sergachev if--and this is a big IF--we absolutely knew we could acquire an adequate replacement for less money.

My reasoning is, given his age, this is probably the most trade value Sergachev will EVER have in his career, or has ever had previously. And... Well, it just feels like we aren't going to get the most out of him until Hedman declines. And all signs seem to point to Hedman declining defensively before his offense takes a hit, which means, no PP1 for Sergachev in the foreseeable future.

When Hedman eventually gives up the throne, I don't think Sergachev is the guy who will take it over. If anything, he's gonna be one of the first pieces we move in the rebui-- ... ...I think I just changed my mind, and we need to keep Sergachev until the inevitable rebuild, when he's roughly 30/31 and still worth a pile.
 

DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
47,163
23,251
NB
He's skating and has joined the team for parts of practice wearing a red, non-contact jersey. He's still likely a ways off from being game ready though. If Tampa makes it to round 2, maybe he has a chance imo.
Didn't realize that. Thought he was still on pace to be back for Round 1. That's what I get for watching opposing broadcasts more often than not.
 

JTBF81

Registered User
Dec 6, 2018
3,954
2,086
Tampa, FL.
Didn't realize that. Thought he was still on pace to be back for Round 1. That's what I get for watching opposing broadcasts more often than not.
Anything is possible, but I have a feeling they won't push him back that quickly. Round 2 wojld be around 3 months since the injury, which seems like.about the earliest one would expect him back.
 

ccman68

Registered User
Dec 9, 2017
4,231
4,515
maybe now that we’ve seen how shit dumba is people will realize perbix really isn’t all that bad
 
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flying squirrel

Registered User
Feb 11, 2019
575
677
Vegas's blatant LTIR cheating -vs- Lightning's LTIR

Lightning grew team with youth within over-the-years
  • Lightning used mostly homegrown youth to build team over-the-years.
  • That youth reached 2015 SCF -vs- Hawks ahead of schedule. Had to deal with LTIR issues that Hawks used to keep Kane sidelined until playoffs. Lightning were only team to vote for getting rid of LTIR after 2015 season.
  • Lightning could've said screw it right after 2015.... we're doing LITR also!
  • But did Lightning use LTIR right after 2015 to help them reach 2016/2018 ECF's? No Lightning did not: they were so sneaky about things and waited 5 yrs during 2nd cores window to impose their devious LITR plans. That way Lightning out-smartered everyone off the scent. :P
  • Lightning reached 6 ECF's, 4 SCF's, and won 2 "Cups" in 8 years time.
  • Lightning reached 5 ECF's. 3 SCF's. and won 1 "Cup" without Kuch's LTIR season.
  • One year of Kuch/Lightning using LTIR doesn't diminish Lightning's achievements over 8 years time one bit. Those saying Lightning are what they are because Kuch had surgery 1 year during 8 years of pure dominance sound so foolish, silly, ignorant to facts, or they're just ate-up.
  • Lightning didn't need to blackmail/bully league to build team & stack resources either.
  • Lightning made few legit trades for young players here & there (Cernak/Bishop, Serg/Drouin, etc.) but didn't sign franchise type players from others, for 3 years straight while abusing LTIR. Did they? Nope....
  • To compare Lightning to how Vegas built/operates is huge insult to one of best NHL organizations during cap era. Lightning -vs- Vegas are not cut from same cloth, not even close.
  • Vegas is blatantly abusing LTIR and that's nothing like what Lightning did or built.
  • Again, Lightning built team over years from within legit like and most players got raises for successes. If anything, Lightning were victims of their own in house successes because they didn't need other NHL teams franchise players to do it!

Lightning have more playoff miles
  • Believe Lightning have doubled most NHL teams playoff games played since 2015.
  • Playoffs miles are brutal, Kucherov and others have felt those playoff miles more than most.
  • When some playoff teams were facing elimination games, their strategy was to hurt star players. Kuch, Point, and others felt this many times over, but one cheap hip-shot was to much for Kuch (Cough...cough.... Islanders).
  • Kuch tried to make it work without surgery after1st "Stanley Cup", and shorten off-season made choice more difficult. Lightning bet Kuch would heal during off-season rest, but no dice when hitting ice come regular season time. Now remember, Lightning's playoff success had them having way shorter off-seasons than most NHLer's for how long? They made deep playoff run year after year, this adds up. Think Covid off-seasons had even less off-season turn around, but not sure.
  • Without covid season, Kucherov LITR surgery situation doesn't play out the way it did. Did Kuch/Lightning cause or plan perfectly for covid shorten seasons, so timing workout. No, but Lightning were smart enough to take advantage of timing, but still rolled the dice with the possibility of not making playoffs, without Kucherov in regular season. Luckily Lighting built enough of a juggernaut to whether that shortened storm.

Lightning organization knows what's up, alternate jersey was a statement
  • "The Lightning Bolt, it's more than just a mark: It's an icon, a badge of honor, a reflection of all the blood sweat and sacrifice. It's demanded from anyone who's ever worn us, an emblem of excellence. A combination of everything we've been, everything we are, and everything we hope to be. From expansion, to raising banners, from the Lightning on-the-ice, to the thunder in-the-stands. It's our legacy....... One that says to the world, we're earned our stripes !!!!!
  • Now go run through a wall, playoffs are coming !!!
  • Lightning have reached greatness using many in house methods, but they also used disses, non awards, and lack of respect to become a juggernaut. So this group could fight off bias and # 1 BS thrown their way. So keep serving it up, seems to keep this organization, players, and coaches hungry.
  • Sorry for long post,, but these comparisons of Lightning -vs- Vegas organization methods are bunk. Thanks for letting me vent these issues after lurking mostly.
Go Lightning !!!!
 

Hockeyville USA

Registered User
Dec 30, 2023
1,704
1,324
Central Ohio
With the Wings all for sure being out of the playoffs, time to unretire my Kucherov jersey and yell loudly at my TV screen everytime Hagel scores in the final seconds to win games.

Can anyone give me a run down on the season the Lightning have had? This is the first year in 4 years I haven't been exclusively watching TBL games since the Wings were semi-competitive this year (still made it to five Lightning games this year, though).
Inconsistent the first half of the season (Vasilevskiy out, lots of guys coasting, depth was a concern, defense especially Sergachev & Perbix was bad, goaltending was ok and Vasilevskiy wasn't himself when he came back). Overall team defense was horrible for awhile. They get hot right before the All Star break, then come back from the break flat, sit in a bubble spot up to the trade deadline, then BriseBois adds Duclair and Dumba, team got on a heater all the way up to clinching a playoff spot, Vasilevskiy looks better as well.

Kucherov, Hagel, and Hedman (offensively) have been great all year and finally Point and Stamkos flipped the switch on, Paul & Cirelli have started scoring a lot lately too. Motte has been very good in his depth role, Lilleberg helped to stabilize this defense since Sergachev got hurt the 1st and 2nd time. Chaffee has been solid since coming up, and Eyssimont has been as advertished
 

Sky04

Registered User
Jan 8, 2009
29,107
18,202
Vegas's blatant LTIR cheating -vs- Lightning's LTIR

Lightning grew team with youth within over-the-years
  • Lightning used mostly homegrown youth to build team over-the-years.
  • That youth reached 2015 SCF -vs- Hawks ahead of schedule. Had to deal with LTIR issues that Hawks used to keep Kane sidelined until playoffs. Lightning were only team to vote for getting rid of LTIR after 2015 season.
  • Lightning could've said screw it right after 2015.... we're doing LITR also!
  • But did Lightning use LTIR right after 2015 to help them reach 2016/2018 ECF's? No Lightning did not: they were so sneaky about things and waited 5 yrs during 2nd cores window to impose their devious LITR plans. That way Lightning out-smartered everyone off the scent. :P
  • Lightning reached 6 ECF's, 4 SCF's, and won 2 "Cups" in 8 years time.
  • Lightning reached 5 ECF's. 3 SCF's. and won 1 "Cup" without Kuch's LTIR season.
  • One year of Kuch/Lightning using LTIR doesn't diminish Lightning's achievements over 8 years time one bit. Those saying Lightning are what they are because Kuch had surgery 1 year during 8 years of pure dominance sound so foolish, silly, ignorant to facts, or they're just ate-up.
  • Lightning didn't need to blackmail/bully league to build team & stack resources either.
  • Lightning made few legit trades for young players here & there (Cernak/Bishop, Serg/Drouin, etc.) but didn't sign franchise type players from others, for 3 years straight while abusing LTIR. Did they? Nope....
  • To compare Lightning to how Vegas built/operates is huge insult to one of best NHL organizations during cap era. Lightning -vs- Vegas are not cut from same cloth, not even close.
  • Vegas is blatantly abusing LTIR and that's nothing like what Lightning did or built.
  • Again, Lightning built team over years from within legit like and most players got raises for successes. If anything, Lightning were victims of their own in house successes because they didn't need other NHL teams franchise players to do it!

Lightning have more playoff miles
  • Believe Lightning have doubled most NHL teams playoff games played since 2015.
  • Playoffs miles are brutal, Kucherov and others have felt those playoff miles more than most.
  • When some playoff teams were facing elimination games, their strategy was to hurt star players. Kuch, Point, and others felt this many times over, but one cheap hip-shot was to much for Kuch (Cough...cough.... Islanders).
  • Kuch tried to make it work without surgery after1st "Stanley Cup", and shorten off-season made choice more difficult. Lightning bet Kuch would heal during off-season rest, but no dice when hitting ice come regular season time. Now remember, Lightning's playoff success had them having way shorter off-seasons than most NHLer's for how long? They made deep playoff run year after year, this adds up. Think Covid off-seasons had even less off-season turn around, but not sure.
  • Without covid season, Kucherov LITR surgery situation doesn't play out the way it did. Did Kuch/Lightning cause or plan perfectly for covid shorten seasons, so timing workout. No, but Lightning were smart enough to take advantage of timing, but still rolled the dice with the possibility of not making playoffs, without Kucherov in regular season. Luckily Lighting built enough of a juggernaut to whether that shortened storm.

Lightning organization knows what's up, alternate jersey was a statement
  • "The Lightning Bolt, it's more than just a mark: It's an icon, a badge of honor, a reflection of all the blood sweat and sacrifice. It's demanded from anyone who's ever worn us, an emblem of excellence. A combination of everything we've been, everything we are, and everything we hope to be. From expansion, to raising banners, from the Lightning on-the-ice, to the thunder in-the-stands. It's our legacy....... One that says to the world, we're earned our stripes !!!!!
  • Now go run through a wall, playoffs are coming !!!
  • Lightning have reached greatness using many in house methods, but they also used disses, non awards, and lack of respect to become a juggernaut. So this group could fight off bias and # 1 BS thrown their way. So keep serving it up, seems to keep this organization, players, and coaches hungry.
  • Sorry for long post,, but these comparisons of Lightning -vs- Vegas organization methods are bunk. Thanks for letting me vent these issues after lurking mostly.
Go Lightning !!!!

Who cares, whining about a rule we abused as well regardless of how you did it just looks pathetic. Embrace it and blame the rest of the league for allowing it to be used.
 

Ducati Boy

HF Original
Feb 7, 2018
1,341
1,481
Dumba does a few things nice. Hits, fights, hard shot, speed, good stamina.

It's a shame because if he knew how to play defense, those are some good tools to have.
Strong agree. It’s his reactions and reads in his own zone that let him down.
 
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These Are The Days

Oh no! We suck again!!
May 17, 2014
34,445
20,199
Tampa Bay
Honestly, I'm at a point where I'd be open to trading Sergachev if--and this is a big IF--we absolutely knew we could acquire an adequate replacement for less money.

My reasoning is, given his age, this is probably the most trade value Sergachev will EVER have in his career, or has ever had previously. And... Well, it just feels like we aren't going to get the most out of him until Hedman declines. And all signs seem to point to Hedman declining defensively before his offense takes a hit, which means, no PP1 for Sergachev in the foreseeable future.

When Hedman eventually gives up the throne, I don't think Sergachev is the guy who will take it over. If anything, he's gonna be one of the first pieces we move in the rebui-- ... ...I think I just changed my mind, and we need to keep Sergachev until the inevitable rebuild, when he's roughly 30/31 and still worth a pile.
Dude is a 5 star tank general waiting to happen
 
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