Prospect Info: [2022 - 1st OA] Juraj Slafkovsky (LW) (Player Discussion ONLY)

[26Mats]

Yeah, I'm worried he's very eloquently leading us to his previous level of success, which is very near zero.

The guy seems to be blowing hot air every time I hear him speak.

He's got these intricate theories about players. Whether they have anything to do with the reality of what the players will become is another matter.

 

[Hacketts]

I think it's safe to say a few of you guys haven't been carrying the mail in this thread.

 

[Toene]

Just smoked a strong pre-rolled joint. I'm high as a Slafkovskite.

 

[Skala24]

Nick Bobrov... What a speech! - "You know, hockey historians are paying attention to what this guy managed to achieve. At what age. To be at the World Championship at the age of 16 is unprecedented. No one has done that. Even in '80s and the '70s. And obviously what he has done on the big stages this year is also pretty much unprecedented. He just has that personality to want to take the bull by the horns. He wants to own the moment, the situation. I just talked to guys who had him at the world Olympics this morning. I said, 'you know, you kept bumping him up the lineup.' Okay, he goes to the Olympics: fourth line to the first line because other guys were not carrying the mail. Same thing happens at the Worlds. So, he's doing it with that... drive, desire, owning the moment, and it's a personality trait. It's more than just a skill, a hockey skill. He just has that personality trait that wants to own the stage. And I think he has proven that to the world of hockey that he is not a one-hit wonder, okay? That he is repeating those performances. We saw him at TPS in the playoffs. He was excellent. And he just kept getting better, and better, and better. Every month, every shift, every tournament. Lastly... a country of five million has been talking about this kid for what, three years now? Four years now? The pressure on him is a country. And so far, he's handled it unbelievably well. So, to gauge how the kid can handle pressure, I think there's evidence and the proof is in the pudding, not only through the tournaments, but through this period of time of maybe two-and-a-half years, where he's been the next one. And he kept getting better while under pressure of that five million population. So, what we are looking for is talent and mental resiliency. It's hard to play in this market. It's hard to excel in this market. So, we are trying to find the kids who have those special qualities, coupled with talent, who can succeed in Montreal. "

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Nick Bobrov... What a speech! - "You know, hockey historians are paying attention to what this guy managed to achieve. At what age. To be at the World Championship at the age of 16 is unprecedented. No one has done that. Even in '80s and the '70s. And obviously what he has done on the big stages this year is also pretty much unprecedented. He just has that personality to want to take the bull by the horns. He wants to own the moment, the situation. I just talked to guys who had him at the world Olympics this morning. I said, 'you know, you kept bumping him up the lineup.' Okay, he goes to the Olympics: fourth line to the first line because other guys were not carrying the mail. Same thing happens at the Worlds. So, he's doing it with that... drive, desire, owning the moment, and it's a personality trait. It's more than just a skill, a hockey skill. He just has that personality trait that wants to own the stage. And I think he has proven that to the world of hockey that he is not a one-hit wonder, okay? That he is repeating those performances. We saw him at TPS in the playoffs. He was excellent. And he just kept getting better, and better, and better. Every month, every shift, every tournament. Lastly... a country of five million has been talking about this kid for what, three years now? Four years now? The pressure on him is a country. And so far, he's handled it unbelievably well. So, to gauge how the kid can handle pressure, I think there's evidence and the proof is in the pudding, not only through the tournaments, but through this period of time of maybe two-and-a-half years, where he's been the next one. And he kept getting better while under pressure of that five million population. So, what we are looking for is talent and mental resiliency. It's hard to play in this market. It's hard to excel in this market. So, we are trying to find the kids who have those special qualities, coupled with talent, who can succeed in Montreal. "

...how to admit that you cried at the end of Jerry Maguire without admitting that you cried at the end of Jerry Maguire...

 

[Twisted Sinister]

They are not catering to you.

Which is, shockingly, why I don't like it

How Bobrov's argument for choosing Slafkovsky is getting watered down to choose karacter is mind boggling. It's just another classic example of the BS that sometimes gets schlepped around on these forums.

I'm going from memory -- because I couldn't bother looking at the video again to make a rebuttal to someone who doesn't give a shit anyhow -- but here's the basic argument for choosing Slafkovsky, according to Bobrov:

1) Has proven he can play at a high level consistently over time. Wanted and was able to carry the mail on his line on two successive occasions internationally, both times, moving up and proving he belongs higher up in the line, from 4th line all the way to 1st line.

2) Kept getting better -- all year long and getting better in bigger pressure matchups.

3) The been under the microscope for three or four years as the next thing in his country and improving throughout the pressure cooker environment is just the cherry on top at the end to

a) show he will continue to develop in a pressure environment like Montreal
b) Indirect stab at Wright who was deemed the next thing for years,, but failed to keep improving significantly.

Gorton didn't say to not give a shit about character and only look at the skill set and Bobrov does not sound like he is doing that one bit regarding Slafkovsky. It is clearly a "The guy can play solid hockey and keeps improving -- plus he has great character, wanting to be a player that makes a difference on every shift" wanting to be a player that makes a difference is more than just a has good character remark.

It shows drive for excellence and desire to win, it shows a will to keep getting better and to put the work into it to get there. It confirms Slafkovsky's simple observation when asked how he would handle pressure in Montreal, "Just make sure I play well."

Slafkovsky, like all the other players drafted in 2022, is not a sure bet to reach his ceiling -- which is extremely high, IMO -- but his attitude and confidence after coming into his own during International play certainly sounds like a positive for the team.

Hopefully, Slafkovsky makes us proud. We can use a forward with skill who can also be dominant physically.

Anderson can be dominant physically, but in a limited fashion because he doesn't have huge puck skills and is limited tp a few predictable tactics that still can work out because he is so fast and strong and has a solid NHL shot off the rush, but he doesn't have the complete skill set that Slafkovsky has.

With respect, because you put thought into this, I'll have to disagree with you.

To me, everything he said can be boiled down to:

-Vague ambiguous "hockey historians" seem to adore the kid
-He was good at these tournaments, which is a small sample size
-Karakter
-He (with no evidence shown) had the pressure of 5 million Slovakians on him. (WTF? While playing in Finland?)
-He was allegedly good in the Liiga playoffs (Was he though?)

As I've mentioned in a previous post above, I think a lot of what he said was surface level pablum, some was utterly ridiculous, some was emotional speechifying, and some was inaccurate, all in one speech. It feels like Slaf was just Bobrov's guy and he was throwing absolutely everything into an emotional speech to convince people.

And that type of decision shouldn't be made from an emotional space. It needs to be made from a logical, clinical, cold and heartless place.

Look, I want Slaf to succeed too. I don't like the pick, but my posts in this instance were about Bobrov specifically. Dude just seems like an eloquent doofus to me with a penchant for very bad drafting decisions. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Nick Bobrov... What a speech! - "You know, hockey historians are paying attention to what this guy managed to achieve. At what age. To be at the World Championship at the age of 16 is unprecedented. No one has done that. Even in '80s and the '70s. And obviously what he has done on the big stages this year is also pretty much unprecedented. He just has that personality to want to take the bull by the horns. He wants to own the moment, the situation. I just talked to guys who had him at the world Olympics this morning. I said, 'you know, you kept bumping him up the lineup.' Okay, he goes to the Olympics: fourth line to the first line because other guys were not carrying the mail. Same thing happens at the Worlds. So, he's doing it with that... drive, desire, owning the moment, and it's a personality trait. It's more than just a skill, a hockey skill. He just has that personality trait that wants to own the stage. And I think he has proven that to the world of hockey that he is not a one-hit wonder, okay? That he is repeating those performances. We saw him at TPS in the playoffs. He was excellent. And he just kept getting better, and better, and better. Every month, every shift, every tournament. Lastly... a country of five million has been talking about this kid for what, three years now? Four years now? The pressure on him is a country. And so far, he's handled it unbelievably well. So, to gauge how the kid can handle pressure, I think there's evidence and the proof is in the pudding, not only through the tournaments, but through this period of time of maybe two-and-a-half years, where he's been the next one. And he kept getting better while under pressure of that five million population. So, what we are looking for is talent and mental resiliency. It's hard to play in this market. It's hard to excel in this market. So, we are trying to find the kids who have those special qualities, coupled with talent, who can succeed in Montreal. "

Honestly, I thought his speech was wrought with hyperbole and bias. He was anything but objective and was really tough to listen to.

These "insights" are heavily skewed anyways as they aren't going to show discussions where negative aspects are brought forward and I truly did not learn anything at all other than how carefully narrated and polished this was as a PR project. The idea of scouts fighting for "their guys" is stupid and only leads to hyperbolic/biased evaluations where pissing contests can take precedence over organizational success. Bobrov's laughable claim that Slaf had the pressure of an entire country looming over him as though that would be more than he will experience in Montreal is nonsensical. Hockey is popular in Slovakia but there is no comparison to the Montreal Canadiens fan base and was a silly example as they don't even follow pre draft prospects anywhere close to the level that you see in Canada. Bobrov also declined to mention that it is historically unprecedented to select a forward with only 5 league goals in his draft year. I am not saying this to take shots at Slaf but just to expose the level of hyperbole and bias that Bobrov was showing in a setting that screams for objective discussion.

I have an open mind with Slafkovsky and am really exited to follow his development. Hopefully everyone will be patient with him and will avoid the rollercoaster of premature boom or bust claims.

 

[ReHabs]

Can’t take anything away from the behind the scenes video as it is always cut up to be inoffensive and anodyne. I agree that Bobrov’s speech was a bit over the top…

But Slafkovsky’s production in the Liiga playoffs wasn’t a particular standout either…

We can infer they loved his personality and thought his performance in those tournaments was way more relevant than his performance in Liiga and Liiga playoffs. I wouldn’t have assumed this to be the case but it seems so.

 

[Skala24]

Honestly, I thought his speech was wrought with hyperbole and bias. He was anything but objective and was really tough to listen to.

These "insights" are heavily skewed anyways as they aren't going to show discussions where negative aspects are brought forward and I truly did not learn anything at all other than how carefully narrated and polished this was as a PR project. The idea of scouts fighting for "their guys" is stupid and only leads to hyperbolic/biased evaluations where pissing contests can take precedence over organizational success. Bobrov's laughable claim that Slaf had the pressure of an entire country looming over him as though that would be more than he will experience in Montreal is nonsensical. Hockey is popular in Slovakia but there is no comparison to the Montreal Canadiens fan base and was a silly example as they don't even follow pre draft prospects anywhere close to the level that you see in Canada. Bobrov also declined to mention that it is historically unprecedented to select a forward with only 5 league goals in his draft year. I am not saying this to take shots at Slaf but just to expose the level of hyperbole and bias that Bobrov was showing in a setting that screams for objective discussion.

I have an open mind with Slafkovsky and am really exited to follow his development. Hopefully everyone will be patient with him and will avoid the rollercoaster of premature boom or bust claims.

he is getting better and better day by day, we will see

 

[Heffyhoof]

Which is, shockingly, why I don't like it


With respect, because you put thought into this, I'll have to disagree with you.

To me, everything he said can be boiled down to:

-Vague ambiguous "hockey historians" seem to adore the kid
-He was good at these tournaments, which is a small sample size
-Karakter
-He (with no evidence shown) had the pressure of 5 million Slovakians on him. (WTF? While playing in Finland?)
-He was allegedly good in the Liiga playoffs (Was he though?)

As I've mentioned in a previous post above, I think a lot of what he said was surface level pablum, some was utterly ridiculous, some was emotional speechifying, and some was inaccurate, all in one speech. It feels like Slaf was just Bobrov's guy and he was throwing absolutely everything into an emotional speech to convince people.

And that type of decision shouldn't be made from an emotional space. It needs to be made from a logical, clinical, cold and heartless place.

Look, I want Slaf to succeed too. I don't like the pick, but my posts in this instance were about Bobrov specifically. Dude just seems like an eloquent doofus to me with a penchant for very bad drafting decisions. Hope I'm wrong.

Immediately know you're arguing in bad faith. 31 regular season games is enough for you to whine about, but 40+ international games is 'a small sample size.'

Also no evidence shown for the pressure on him from his home country, but similarly with zero evidence you've decided that Bobrov was making the decision to draft 'from an emotional space.'

 

[Zilo44]

Which is, shockingly, why I don't like it


With respect, because you put thought into this, I'll have to disagree with you.

To me, everything he said can be boiled down to:

-Vague ambiguous "hockey historians" seem to adore the kid
-He was good at these tournaments, which is a small sample size
-Karakter
-He (with no evidence shown) had the pressure of 5 million Slovakians on him. (WTF? While playing in Finland?)
-He was allegedly good in the Liiga playoffs (Was he though?)

As I've mentioned in a previous post above, I think a lot of what he said was surface level pablum, some was utterly ridiculous, some was emotional speechifying, and some was inaccurate, all in one speech. It feels like Slaf was just Bobrov's guy and he was throwing absolutely everything into an emotional speech to convince people.

And that type of decision shouldn't be made from an emotional space. It needs to be made from a logical, clinical, cold and heartless place.

Look, I want Slaf to succeed too. I don't like the pick, but my posts in this instance were about Bobrov specifically. Dude just seems like an eloquent doofus to me with a penchant for very bad drafting decisions. Hope I'm wrong.

I think there is a bit of a misconception about scouting.

Yes evaluating a player « right now » is an objective undertaking. But as Hughes said himself, you want to draft the best possible player 5 years from now.

So yes, you do take into account what kind of skills a player possesses right now and determine whether the floor is high enough based on cold facts.

But many fans are way more interested on the ceiling than into the floor.

And that’s where the objective analysis sort of stops IMO.

How can projecting Slafkovsky play in 5 years be an objective analysis? The only way to do that would be to try to form a pool of comparable players and try to make comparisons over time.

But this kind of approach has a large margin of error since each player is unique. This might be even more true for a guy like Slafkovsky.

Hence, how do you project his progression? You try to get a feel of his character, work ethic and talk with people who previously saw him evolve. You wish it will keep following the same trajectory.

My point is, assessing a player’s ceiling and where he will be 5 years from now cannot be purely objective. You sort of have to resort to the thought process Bobrov is explaining in the clip.

 

[MonkeyBusiness]

I'm not ok with scraps just because we usually get nothing. But that said, I have to evaluate the scraps we got... And I wasn't impressed.

Bobrov is a weird hiring. It's not as bad as Therrien was for Bergevin, but it definitely has the stink of hiring your buddy with no track record of success and was the first time I had concerns with this management team.

If they wanted to show otherwise, an impassioned speech saying "pick my guy because karakter!" is probably not the way to go, no matter how eloquently you say it.

He spoke about his hockey accomplishments and the fact that he kept getting better as a hockey player the more the season progressed. You're deluded in thinking this was your typical ''character'' speech. I watched the entire 22 minute post-draft special and you hear the character stuff more from the likes of Marty Lapointe and others. There's even a quip of Gorton specifically saying that you have to draft for skill. Stop trying to compare past managements to this one in the hopes of seeing similarities. They can be dissimilar and have dichotomies in their approaches, and that doesn't mean that either are right in their philosophies.

You sound like a fan that's been hit with Bergevin PTSD and is looking for every clue that we're entering the same bleak and tasteless era of ''draft for character''. This management team is different, and the culture that's coming in is different as well. We'll have to wait and see if they're going to right the ship. Eh, in the end I'm also biased. I've liked the approach this new management team has taken and am looking forward to the future. I don't blame you for being critical.

 

[SlafySZN]

Can’t take anything away from the behind the scenes video as it is always cut up to be inoffensive and anodyne. I agree that Bobrov’s speech was a bit over the top…

But Slafkovsky’s production in the Liiga playoffs wasn’t a particular standout either…

We can infer they loved his personality and thought his performance in those tournaments was way more relevant than his performance in Liiga and Liiga playoffs. I wouldn’t have assumed this to be the case but it seems so.

He was excellent in the playoffs.

But you’d have to watch it to know, not just looking at hockeydb.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

To me, the whole thing kinda confirms the impression I had at the draft that the team felt there wasn't much separation talent wise in the top 4. They went with the ''intangibles'' to break the tie so to speak and Slaf was the guy that impressed them the most personality wise. You do have to make a decision at some point, at least Bobrov and co. looked real comfortable with the guy they went with in the end .

 

[Tetragrammaton]

They... kind of seem like filler points to me. Very shallow stuff

Doing unprecedented things as a hockey player is a filler point and shallow? You a Shane Wright fan boy?

 

[Twisted Sinister]

Immediately know you're arguing in bad faith. 31 regular season games is enough for you to whine about, but 40+ international games is 'a small sample size.'

Also no evidence shown for the pressure on him from his home country, but similarly with zero evidence you've decided that Bobrov was making the decision to draft 'from an emotional space.'

Well, if you're gonna act like that, you don't deserve a response. Try being a little less rude.

I think there is a bit of a misconception about scouting.

Yes evaluating a player « right now » is an objective undertaking. But as Hughes said himself, you want to draft the best possible player 5 years from now.

So yes, you do take into account what kind of skills a player possesses right now and determine whether the floor is high enough based on cold facts.

But many fans are way more interested on the ceiling than into the floor.

And that’s where the objective analysis sort of stops IMO.

How can projecting Slafkovsky play in 5 years be an objective analysis? The only way to do that would be to try to form a pool of comparable players and try to make comparisons over time.

But this kind of approach has a large margin of error since each player is unique. This might be even more true for a guy like Slafkovsky.

Hence, how do you project his progression? You try to get a feel of his character, work ethic and talk with people who previously saw him evolve. You wish it will keep following the same trajectory.

My point is, assessing a player’s ceiling and where he will be 5 years from now cannot be purely objective. You sort of have to resort to the thought process Bobrov is explaining in the clip.

I definitely get some of it is reading tea leaves. But some of it is also objective analysis and metrics. In a professional environment, I find making a speech stanning your guy to be weird and unprofessional. Just my opinion.

He spoke about his hockey accomplishments and the fact that he kept getting better as a hockey player the more the season progressed. You're deluded in thinking this was your typical ''character'' speech. I watched the entire 22 minute post-draft special and you hear the character stuff more from the likes of Marty Lapointe and others. There's even a quip of Gorton specifically saying that you have to draft for skill. Stop trying to compare past managements to this one in the hopes of seeing similarities. They can be dissimilar and have dichotomies in their approaches, and that doesn't mean that either are right in their philosophies.

You sound like a fan that's been hit with Bergevin PTSD and is looking for every clue that we're entering the same bleak and tasteless era of ''draft for character''. This management team is different, and the culture that's coming in is different as well. We'll have to wait and see if they're going to right the ship. Eh, in the end I'm also biased. I've liked the approach this new management team has taken and am looking forward to the future. I don't blame you for being critical.

Well, I definitely have Bergevin PTSD, that's for sure. And Gauthier PTSD, And Gainey PTSD. And various levels of other PTSD dating back to the tail-end of Serge Savard.

That's because I've been saying management has been mediocre for decades while the rose colored glasses crowd would fight me every step of the way, usually with varying levels of vitriol (see Heffy above).

Now, we have a management who's making good moves in terms of some trades, but also hired Bobrov (a guy with a high level of failure) to head up possibly the most important part of the organzation, drafted a controversial one overall, and picked up T-Rex Wrists Dach using a valuable asset, which is a bit of a magic beans move. I hope all those things work out, but you can't blame me for being a tiny bit alarmed.

Doing unprecedented things as a hockey player is a filler point and shallow? You a Shane Wright fan boy?

Ah yes, the strawman. I had 5 guys ahead of Slaf on my list. I find his hockey sense Lars Eller-esque.

 

[Mandala]

All this is talk. I don't trust Bobrov but will wait to see what the first round players do in the next 2-3 years. That will be data and not spin to see if they did make the right pick. Analytics were not kind for Slafkovsky but analytics can be wrong also. Time will tell.

 

[KevSkillz4]

Canadiens : Slafkovsky se met en évidence dans la LSHL

Faits saillants de la finale de la LSHL impliquant Juraj Slafkovsky et Nick Suzuki, entre autres.

www.rds.ca

I know it's just 3v3 on type of patrice game... but we see in that video that Slafkovsky and Mesar are both very skilled players.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

Ah yes, the strawman. I had 5 guys ahead of Slaf on my list. I find his hockey sense Lars Eller-esque.

Please list those 5 players in order from 1 to 5. We all deserve a good laugh today.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

The guy seems to be blowing hot air every time I hear him speak.

He's got these intricate theories about players. Whether they have anything to do with the reality of what the players will become is another matter.

If you want to look smart, rest your glasses over your eyebrows in order to not mess up your hair.

#WhatIveLearnedFromBobrov

 

[Captain97]

Was he a point per game at 18 or 19 years old? A year in college would’ve been great for him instead of starting at barely 18.

Almost Noone is point per game as a rookie. The point I made was he Clearly did well developing in the NHL if in his 20 year old season he went point per game...

 

[MoneyManny]

Damn, you guys are hardcore! What do y'all expect from a promotional piece released by a company selling you their product? Objectivity and true depth analysis?

 

[OldCraig71]

I am looking forward to camp/preseason, let's see how he handles playing against some of the best in the world.

 

[SlafySZN]

Almost Noone is point per game as a rookie. The point I made was he Clearly did well developing in the NHL if in his 20 year old season he went point per game...

He said himself just last year that his first year was very though on him.

 

[bouquet]

Well, if you're gonna act like that, you don't deserve a response. Try being a little less rude.


I definitely get some of it is reading tea leaves. But some of it is also objective analysis and metrics. In a professional environment, I find making a speech stanning your guy to be weird and unprofessional. Just my opinion.

Well, I definitely have Bergevin PTSD, that's for sure. And Gauthier PTSD, And Gainey PTSD. And various levels of other PTSD dating back to the tail-end of Serge Savard.

That's because I've been saying management has been mediocre for decades while the rose colored glasses crowd would fight me every step of the way, usually with varying levels of vitriol (see Heffy above).

Now, we have a management who's making good moves in terms of some trades, but also hired Bobrov (a guy with a high level of failure) to head up possibly the most important part of the organzation, drafted a controversial one overall, and picked up T-Rex Wrists Dach using a valuable asset, which is a bit of a magic beans move. I hope all those things work out, but you can't blame me for being a tiny bit alarmed.

Ah yes, the strawman. I had 5 guys ahead of Slaf on my list. I find his hockey sense Lars Eller-esque.

the thing is , you can only take one, so who is it?