Prospect Info: 2021 HFDevils Prospect Rankings #4

[JimEIV]

Honestly yes, both at the prospect and NHL level. There were a few exceptional performances that rocketed a few guys up the list (Sharangovich, Smith) but IMO everyone else was treading water. I'm not sold on Zacha's breakout, for example. He needs to do it again before I buy in.

It was very temping to put Mercer over Holtz but I still had Holtz at #2. I just think Holtz has some very special talents that can't be taught. I could easily be wrong when we revisit this in a year but I think getting out of Sweden and working with NA professionals will do wonders for his development.

My prospect list is largely the same as it was last year, a couple of minor risers and fallers and the new new guys but otherwise the same.

That's fair. It seems well thought out and reasonable...The only thing I think I would debate a little is
Zacha.

That seemed to be the thought process after 2020...That he benefited from collected a lot of assist and that his point total was "unsustainable" when he finished tied for 4th on the team in scoring. In 2020 Zacha moved into the upper echelon of contributors on team and I think this season was of a validation of what he did last year.

That said I do understand the skepticism as it has been long time coming together...but I also think it is a little unfair for some on the board to classify two seasons as a fluke.

 

[AfroThunder396]

We will never know the full extent of Holtz's injury, but his SHL season got off to very good start if memory serves and went off the rails when injury struck him and then his line mates and the team had Covid issues. He didn't really rebound until the playoffs and even then he didn't do much in his first AHL stint. Hopefully he's healthy and ready to go for camp and can play to the best of his abilities. As @StevenToddIves has noted about Holtz, he's a dependent player to some extent and will need good setup line mates to excel. I'm not sure who will do that for him in Utica this upcoming season.

I'm encouraged that Fitz went out and signed some AHL guys with good professional experience like De Leo and Flynn. Hopefully they bolster Utica's lineup and provide competition/support for the developing kids.

 

[My3Sons]

That's fair. It seems well thought out and reasonable...The only thing I think I would debate a little is
Zacha.

That seem to be the thought process after 2020...That he benefited from collected a lot of assist and that his point total was "unsustainable" when he finished tied for 4th on the team in scoring. In 2020 Zacha moved into the upper echelon of contributors on team and I think this season was of a validation of what he did last year.

That said I do understand the skepticism as it has been long time coming together...but I also think it is a little unfair for some on the board to classify two season as fluke.

Zacha will be seen by some as the player that would roller coaster in years past. I think that he improved slowly over those earlier seasons though. He was prone to inconsistency, but each year I think the number of bad games was slightly less. This past season I'm sure he had a few clunkers, but he wasn't floating for many games. His on ice demeanor looked noticeably different to me. While his shooting percentage was high, I think he's a different player at this point than he was in years past. The light goes on for different guys at different times. I don't see Zacha as a top line guy but I think that with Bratt and Nico he can play LW2 and be the player he was last year, maybe even a bit better. As I recall, Zacha's best advanced numbers (to the extent they are valid) were when he played wing with Nico and Bratt. I'm glad he progressed. He seems like a good kid and he's easy to root for. Let's not forget he was excited to be drafted by NJ. With the usual slander against the team and the location you'd hope the fans appreciate that about him.

 

[AfroThunder396]

That's fair. It seems well thought out and reasonable...The only thing I think I would debate a little is
Zacha.

That seem to be the thought process after 2020...That he benefited from collected a lot of assist and that his point total was "unsustainable" when he finished tied for 4th on the team in scoring. In 2020 Zacha moved into the upper echelon of contributors on team and I think this season was of a validation of what he did last year.

That said I do understand the skepticism as it has been long time coming together...but I also think it is a little unfair for some on the board to classify two season as fluke.

With Zacha it's especially tough because he's teased progress so many times before pulling the rug out from under us.

I would love nothing more than for him to become a 25 goal/60 point guy but I'm just skeptical of everything he does. Maybe it's unreasonable on my part but I've seen too much bad from him to be so easily swayed by the good.

I think quite a bit of that was John Hynes's influence, and even with the eye test he was night and day after he moved to wing. So we'll see. I'm not rooting against him by any means but I do think the burden of proof on him is higher than on most other guys.

 

[Darkauron]

I like Mccarthy much more than Walsh for future polls. Walsh is still a mess defensively (getting better) but is good on offense. Mccarthy is much better on defense and still pretty good on offenese as well too. He is also bigger, physical and wont shy away to crush people, block shots ect

 

[Lou Bloom]

People are being way too harsh on Holtz after one mediocre season. Oliver Wahlstrom by comparison was a highly regarded sniper that had two worse seasons after his draft season and in his rookie season this year looked really good while putting up nearly .5 ppg while playing 4th line minutes for the Islanders. Seems a bit over reactionary to start worrying about someone with as good a pre draft resume as Holtz has.

 

[Guttersniped]

We will never know the full extent of Holtz's injury, but his SHL season got off to very good start if memory serves and went off the rails when injury struck him and then his line mates and the team had Covid issues. He didn't really rebound until the playoffs and even then he didn't do much in his first AHL stint. Hopefully he's healthy and ready to go for camp and can play to the best of his abilities. As @StevenToddIves has noted about Holtz, he's a dependent player to some extent and will need good setup line mates to excel. I'm not sure who will do that for him in Utica this upcoming season.

They signed two AHL scoring forwards, De Leo and Flynn, to potentially play center and help facilitate offense since Bing is so winger heavy.

 

[Devs3cups]

People are being way too harsh on Holtz after one mediocre season. Oliver Wahlstrom by comparison was a highly regarded sniper that had two worse seasons after his draft season and in his rookie season this year looked really good while putting up nearly .5 ppg while playing 4th line minutes for the Islanders. Seems a bit over reactionary to start worrying about someone with as good a pre draft resume as Holtz has.

Especially with the circumstances which he faced this season (Covid, Injuries, coming quickly to learn NA hockey, etc.). Dude had a great first half AND playoffs for Djurgarden, and our AHL squad is pretty meh, to say the least. I'm not worried about him at all.

 

[Guttersniped]

So do you discount the guys that actually did perform well too? Do we say Foote's season shouldn't hold any value because it wasn't a real AHL season and more glorified scrimmages? I mean it has to cut both ways doesn't it?

If it does...Shouldn't everyone keep their spots from last year and we could just fit in the new picks?

Because playing and producing in the SHL at 18 still makes Holtz a top prospect. Holtz’s place on the blue chip prospects in hockey (or pick a number) likely took a hit for last year but Foote’s not on that list. Or on same area of it. (I don’t want to get bogged down too much on their overall rankings lol.)

Foote has a 2000 birthday and Holtz has a 2002 birthday, it’s January but it still sticks him with that age group which is why he was able to play in the 2001 U20 WJC.

I like Foote and I’m more optimistic about him after what I saw of him on the drunken convenience store security footage that they took at the home Bing games at Newark, it sounded like he would be skating with these:

Now I generally stay optimistic and (approximately) realistic about our prospects. If Foote had a fantastic D+1 year Tampa would of traded someone else. He seems a lot more of a sure future NHLer after last season. He didn’t do anything to leapfrog over Holtz, who sat where he was. At least not in my eyes.

 

[JimEIV]

Because playing and producing in the SHL at 18 still makes Holtz a top prospect. Holtz’s place on the blue chip prospects in hockey (or pick a number) likely took a hit for last year but Foote’s not on that list. Or on same area of it. (I don’t want to get bogged down too much on their overall rankings lol.)

Foote has a 2000 birthday and Holtz has a 2002 birthday, it’s January but it still sticks him with that age group which is why he was able to play in the 2001 U20 WJC.

I like Foote and I’m more optimistic about him after what I saw of him on the drunken convenience store security footage that they took at the home Bing games at Newark, it sounded like he would be skating with these:

View attachment 459394

Now I generally stay optimistic and (approximately) realistic about our prospects. If Foote had a fantastic D+1 year Tampa would of traded someone else. He seems a lot more of a sure future NHLer after last season. He didn’t do anything to leapfrog over Holtz, who sat where he was. At least not in my eyes.

He was 9th on his team in scoring behind a 17 year old Eklund...I mean I understand it is a men's league but the players that were ahead of him, especially in the goals per game is long and many of them aren't very good.

 

[Guttersniped]

He was 9th on his team in scoring behind a 17 year old Eklund...I mean I understand it is a men's league but the players that were ahead of him, especially in the goals per game is long and many of them aren't very good.

Eklund had a crazy good season but he has a November 2002 birthday. He’s old for this draft class and was 18 this season. His .58 PPG was good for 7th on the list of 18 and under players in SHL list (w/ 10 games played)

But the original comparison is Foote vs Holtz.

I have no interest in debating this in circles with you forever. I was drawn in with comparisons of their D+1 seasons and I’ve had my say. I and others can only say it so many times that his late season swoon had extenuating circumstances. He produced at a much more impressive rate before the WJC. He had 13 points (6G 7A) in his first 19 SHL games before WJC.

 

[Guadana]

#3 Okhotiuk (voted for him. Add Gritsyuk)
#4 Clarke.

 

[SJinNewJersey]

Bahl, add Thompson.

 

[JimEIV]

Eklund had a crazy good season but he has a November 2002 birthday. He’s old for this draft class and was 18 this season. His .58 PPG was good for 7th on the list of 18 and under players in SHL list (w/ 10 games played)

But the original comparison is Foote vs Holtz.

I have no interest in debating this in circles with you forever. I was drawn in with comparisons of their D+1 seasons and I’ve had my say. I and others can only say it so many times that his late season swoon had extenuating circumstances. He produced at a much more impressive rate before the WJC. He had 13 points (6G 7A) in his first 19 SHL games before WJC.

Josefson had 7 goals in 27 games. He had 7 in 40. Not sure how you interpret that but my take is not good

 

[Guttersniped]

Josefson had 7 goals in 27 games. He had 7 in 40. Not sure how you interpret that but my take is not good

I knew you going to bring up Josefson, I should have burst that bubble first. Boo SHL, whatever.

I told you how I interpret Holtz as a prospect, as one that is higher on this prospect list than Foote.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I like Mccarthy much more than Walsh for future polls. Walsh is still a mess defensively (getting better) but is good on offense. Mccarthy is much better on defense and still pretty good on offenese as well too. He is also bigger, physical and wont shy away to crush people, block shots ect

I am not sure how Walsh fits long term with how our right side is built (assuming Severson signs long term again).

That third pairing seems best reserved for a bigger stay at home type, and not a pure offensive dman like Walsh

 

[Darkauron]

I am not sure how Walsh fits long term with how our right side is built (assuming Severson signs long term again).

That third pairing seems best reserved for a bigger stay at home type, and not a pure offensive dman like Walsh

Yeah I dont know either. I can only see him in the line up next season if somehow two of or 3 RD are injured for a bit and or we trade PK at the deadline.

I really hope to see something from him at training camp this year, but I still think he spends the whole season down in the AHL

 

[Guadana]

I am not sure how Walsh fits long term with how our right side is built (assuming Severson signs long term again).

That third pairing seems best reserved for a bigger stay at home type, and not a pure offensive dman like Walsh

"Pure" is a bad word for him)

 

[JimEIV]

I knew you going to bring up Josefson, I should have burst that bubble first. Boo SHL, whatever.

I told you how I interpret Holtz as a prospect, as one that is higher on this prospect list than Foote.

Yeah but then you would've needed to burst the Bergfors bubble next

 

[AfroThunder396]

With PK's age and nagging injuries I'm guessing Walsh will get some games with the big club this year. I don't think he's a long term player on this team, not with Smith, Hamilton, and Hughes on the way. We don't need any more PP guys. But clearly guys with that skill set are a hot commodity.

I think best case scenario is that he comes in, produces immediately, and we can use him as trade bait for a forward upgrade. I know we don't have any other RHD depth in the system but there are always #6D available for cheap on the market every year.

 

[HBK27]

People are being way too harsh on Holtz after one mediocre season. Oliver Wahlstrom by comparison was a highly regarded sniper that had two worse seasons after his draft season and in his rookie season this year looked really good while putting up nearly .5 ppg while playing 4th line minutes for the Islanders. Seems a bit over reactionary to start worrying about someone with as good a pre draft resume as Holtz has.

Bastian also had some poor D+1 & D+2 seasons but still made something of himself. Not really concerned about Holtz after this weird season until I see how he performs this upcoming season. Is he definitely going to be playing in Utica this season?

 

[Guttersniped]

Bastian also had some poor D+1 & D+2 seasons but still made something of himself. Not really concerned about Holtz after this weird season until I see how he performs this upcoming season. Is he definitely going to be playing in Utica this season?

I almost positive Holtz will be in NA, the talk after the season was that he was done with his Swedish team.

 

[Beastdog75]

Voted for Foote, add Tyce

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Had Bahl at third behind the two forwards in my own Top 10 so I voted for him here.

Add Tyce Thompson.

Is Jesper Boqvist still considered a prospect? He would have been in the old HF criteria.

 

[brakeyawself]

He was 9th on his team in scoring behind a 17 year old Eklund...I mean I understand it is a men's league but the players that were ahead of him, especially in the goals per game is long and many of them aren't very good.

While you like to see consistent and steady progress not every player takes that path. Many take a more erratic path. Many ups and downs before the big up. OR down.

Would still rank Holtz ahead of MErcer easily. In terms of long term potential.