Racing: 2021 Formula 1 Season

[WTG]

The second protest dismissed, Mercedes intends to appeal


Amazing! Mercedes agreed to the decision prior but not now! Rigged!

 

[Canadienna]

Both Russell and Norris have posted very strongly worded tweets calling out what happened at the end. Which in today's saccharine PR world tells it's own story

Norris?

Got a source?

I saw GR's tweet, but I mean, he's Hamilton's teammate.

I also heard Alonso's radio when they initially claimed the cars couldn't go through. I can only imagine what he would have to say if they take away Max's win.

 

[PanniniClaus]

I always look back to 2012 as the most recent 'great' F1 season. I think this one just topped that. Need to go to pre 1990 to get a better F1 season. That is my humble opinion.

We were in the 'good old days' this year.

Been watching since 1990... went back and watched many older seasons on youtube.. This was amazing... no horse in the race for me but chills as Max and Lewis were racing side by side on the last lap.. F1 needed this kind of drama...really needed it.

 

[WTG]

This so much reminds me of a call against the canucks earlier where OEL tries to whack a puck out of the air and smacks the puck into the opposing players' face. But with the follow-through chops at the player's arm and gets called for slashing. The Canucks commentators rage saying that it wasn't a high-stick when there was no high-stick penalty. Because a lot of fans online just blindly regurgitate what they hear the commentators say they all think it's a bad call.

Turns out, the call is 100% correct but all these fans come out of the woodwork and pretend to be arbiters of the rules despite just googling them for the first time. Then go on to claim that the refs are against them.

The same thing is happening here. All you had to do is wait for the FIA to clarify and you got your answer. I suspect that this whole "rigged" narrative will run it's course for a few days and when everyone is relaxed they will forget that they were 100% wrong and move on. Shame Massi might lose his jobs over the media being irresponsible.

 

[PanniniClaus]

Will there be a review of Latifi's telemetry? I would like to think he's above that but this is big business.

 

[JoVel]

Shame Massi might lose his jobs over the media being irresponsible.

Letting cars on track on a wet track in qualifying with a recovery vehicle still on track, letting Lance Stroll catch up to the safety car at full racing speed with marshals on track (and countless other instances) might also have a play in that...

Look, say what you will about today, I don't care really. But there's no way with all the evidence we got in these past 3 years that you could make the argument for Masi being one bit qualified for the job he currently has.

 

[TheHudlinator]

View attachment 490406
The second protest dismissed, Mercedes intends to appeal


Amazing! Mercedes agreed to the decision prior but not now! Rigged!

Of course they wanted it settled on track under the rules but they don't feel the rules were applied as written I don't see how this is shocking in anyway.

Masi has been under fire all year for his decisions nothing about this is surprising

 

[Ceremony]

Will there be a review of Latifi's telemetry? I would like to think he's above that but this is big business.

He went off the track and his tyres were dirty, and he was behind a car so he had less grip, and he's in a crap car, and he's not that good.

It also clearly ignores the fact that Schumacher forced Latifi off to keep his dad's record intact.

 

[WTG]

Of course they wanted it settled on track under the rules but they don't feel the rules were applied as written I don't see how this is shocking in anyway.

Masi has been under fire all year for his decisions nothing about this is surprising

https://www.reddit.com/gallery/revt58

Here's the ruling

 

[FiveTacos]

View attachment 490406
The second protest dismissed, Mercedes intends to appeal


Amazing! Mercedes agreed to the decision prior but not now! Rigged!

48.12 also states that the SC comes in after the following lap, which in this case would have been the end of the race. It's pretty black and white.

 

[WTG]

48.12 also states that the SC comes in after the following lap, which in this case would have been the end of the race. It's pretty black and white.

48.13 overrules 48.12
Read the ruling.

 

[TheHudlinator]

https://www.reddit.com/gallery/revt58

Here's the ruling

Interesting the FIA has found the FIA to have done nothing wrong, again nothing shocking

 

[MXD]

Mercedes tell FIA they plan appeal over restart decision they believe cost Hamilton title

 

[FiveTacos]

48.13 overrules 48.12
Read the ruling.

All that means is one of two things:

1) the SC in this lap message was erroneously given as according to 48.12 it should have been given on the final lap, or

2) they should have given the in this lap with 1 lap to go, but not allowed the cars to unlap.

I've watched F1 for years and have never seen a SC called in that quickly after allowing lapped cars through. I don't expect the FIA to admit they screwed up though.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

The rules also say that it is up to the race director's discretion to make calls like this in the interest of safety.
Let's wait till the FIA comes out with a statement and clarify their decision before we assume conspiracy.

But it wasn't in the interest of safety. It was following pressure from RB (we heard at least 2 radio calls) to restart the race ASAP. Christian Horner admitted to Sky they were pressuring him to restart the race.

I don't think it was a conspiracy, I think it was an incompetent and spineless race director. And now the FIA are hiding behind the "race director can ignore the rules" rule.

 

[SoupyFIN]

The same thing is happening here. All you had to do is wait for the FIA to clarify and you got your answer. I suspect that this whole "rigged" narrative will run it's course for a few days and when everyone is relaxed they will forget that they were 100% wrong and move on. Shame Massi might lose his jobs over the media being irresponsible.

Very few on the neutral side are saying this was rigged.. the point is more of that Masi crumbled under pressure, much like he has before, and let the teams influence his decision.

It's worth noting that while people are berating Masi for commanding zero respect from the drivers, the FIA has enabled this by allowing the drivers and team staff say whatever they want about the race director or the stewards. Masi has brought a lot of the negative comments by making poor decisions and being inconsistent with his ruling, but there should still be a line that shouldn't be crossed, as the drivers are expected to have some respect for rules and the people upholding them.

Liberty Media has done a lot of great things for F1, but this is starting to look like WWE with each passing day. They care about the entertainment and clicks more than what is fair racing and right.

 

[Zero Requiem]

That was the last race I will ever watch, what is the point in watching a sport that is clearly rigged? The fact that Masi has not been fired is an absolute disgrace, but it makes sense that the FIA would not fire him for carrying out their bidding.

Hopefully, Daimler crushes the FIA and Liberty Media in court.

 

[WTG]

Very few on the neutral side are saying this was rigged.. the point is more of that Masi crumbled under pressure, much like he has before, and let the teams influence his decision.

It's worth noting that while people are berating Masi for commanding zero respect from the drivers, the FIA has enabled this by allowing the drivers and team staff say whatever they want about the race director or the stewards. Masi has brought a lot of the negative comments by making poor decisions and being inconsistent with his ruling, but there should still be a line that shouldn't be crossed, as the drivers are expected to have some respect for rules and the people upholding them.

Liberty Media has done a lot of great things for F1, but this is starting to look like WWE with each passing day. They care about the entertainment and clicks more than what is fair racing and right.

I don't even think it's fair for us to assume that Massi had "zero respect." For all we know these sorts of interactions have always happened under other race directors as well. Isn't this the first season we have had access to the radio between the team principles and the director? Remember the whole "here's the message to charlie, f*** off." Vettel Mexico drama. I think people make these assumptions that they are walking over Massi solely based on his demeanor and voice.

 

[MXD]

The dump took by Michael Masi after the race had more safety purposes than letting only 4 lapped cars pass the SC.

 

[JoVel]

Interesting the FIA has found the FIA to have done nothing wrong, again nothing shocking

Same way Pirelli had those very much unbiased investigations after Baku.

 

[FiveTacos]

But it wasn't in the interest of safety. It was following pressure from RB (we heard at least 2 radio calls) to restart the race ASAP. Christian Horner admitted to Sky they were pressuring him to restart the race.

I don't think it was a conspiracy, I think it was an incompetent and spineless race director. And now the FIA are hiding behind the "race director can ignore the rules" rule.

As I think about it, I suspect that as originally stated they weren't going to let the lapped cars through, and so they gave the "in this lap" signal. But then they changed their mind about the lapped cars ... at which point they had already given the "SC in this lap" signal and could not go back on it. So they created a rules conflict by their own wishy-washiness.

And now all that's left is to hide behind 15.3, but 15.3 in itself presumes that the race director is properly applying the rules. Because if he can arbitrarily override the part of 48.12 that states when the SC is supposed to be called in, he can in theory also arbitrarily override the part where the "SC in this lap" signal must be followed by the SC coming in ... he could arbitrarily leave it out another lap since the race director supposedly has complete discretion over the SC. So that explanation is just bunk.

Again I have no particular horse in this race, I just like the sport itself. But that was a total cluster. There were so many options they could have taken, none of which would have resulted in any controversy even if it left some unsatisfied. But they chose one which still left many fans unsatisfied regardless of who they were rooting for, AND results in clear controversy. I mean, a season ending under SC would have kind of sucked but no one would have argued with the application of the rules or the outcome. Or a race ending with Max passing a bunch of lapped cars on a final lap and THEN maybe chasing down Lewis would have been okay no matter who ended up winning; if he failed to catch up it was a longshot anyway, and if he did catch up it was just lucky timing. All rules would have been followed and "that's racing." Sometimes you catch a break.

But what happened was not like some well-timed or ill-timed break. It was a misapplication of the rules. If the crash had happened 5 laps earlier and Max ran him down legitimately then so be it. If the crash had happened 2 laps later and ended up with no laps to run so be it. But they talked about not wanting to retroactively shorten the race, yet what they did was effectively lengthen the race by a lap. I don't care who you root for, that's just not okay.

 

[FiveTacos]

I don't even think it's fair for us to assume that Massi had "zero respect." For all we know these sorts of interactions have always happened under other race directors as well.

Maybe so, but when Charlie Whiting was running things I always felt like the rules were being applied, so whatever pressure there was didn't result in stuff like this. Sometimes there were stupid rules that ended up screwing someone out of a race or something, but at least procedures and rules were being followed. Now it seems like it's Pirates of the Caribbean ... it's all just "guidelines."

 

[FiveTacos]

One last thing, the FIA also needs to explain why it is okay to clear cars for Verstappen to race Hamilton ... but it was not okay to clear cars between Sainz and Verstappen? Did Sainz not have a right to race for a win or 2nd place as well?

No matter how you look at it, the FIA arguments for dismissal do not hold up under any kind of scrutiny.

 

[bluesfan94]

1) How were the cars behind Verstappen not in a position to unlap themselves? Why is Sainz not allowed to battle Verstappen for P2 etc?

2) The rules literally say that either none, or all, of the lapped cars can un-lap themselves.

By allowing just the cars between Lewis and Max to unlap themselves so as to give the impression of the race being decided "on the track", the FIA did the equivalent of NHL refs swallowing their whistles in the playoffs under the guise of "letting them play" when in reality they're allowing an inferior #8 seed to clutch and grab their way to victory against a superior #1 seed.

Yeah it’s like the refs swallowing their whistles in overtime of game 7 but only after giving the clearly inferior team a bunch of calls to even get to game 7 and a pretty horrendous call to let the inferior team go up at the start of game 7

 

[Canadienna]

How long do you think this will take to sort out in court?

I'm also wondering how do you demote Max, when he's not the one being investigated?

Say they find that Masi/FIA was way out of line at the end and they didn't follow the rules. Does Max get a penalty?