NHL Entry Draft 2020 NHL Draft Discussion - PART V

[RAFI BOMB]

 

[RAFI BOMB]

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Any thoughts on how skating should be properly evaluated? This seems to focus on straight line speed which is very important but I have seen discussions on here breaking down skating into other components. So what makes a great skater in your opinion and what relative value do you place on the various components of it?

 

[InTkachukWeTrust]

This kid is incredibly talented. This is all against men too. He may turn into a superstar.

 

[dumbdick]

This kid is incredibly talented. This is all against men too. He may turn into a superstar.

Yep. This kid convinced me at the wjc. Pat Kane like skill.

 

[Daffy]

Please no

The way we pick we could easily go off the board even with a top pick. I do love Quinn tho. But would prefer to package the Isles pick with two 2nds to go up and get him.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Have to see the underlying data and methods, but that's really awesome analysis.

The 3rd round, while not producing as many games played as the 2nd round, producing better players on average than the 2nd is somewhat surprising.

Yes. That 50 to 80 (or so) bump is quite interesting.

Could that be some good players simply dropping on draft day? I wonder what the stats show for average size in that range (especially height). Or maybe those kids had injury problems that year which dropped them. Or maybe even the Euro factor (depending how far back the analysis goes).

Would be an interesting project to go digging and see what made that range special. Following the key might get some good value players at a low cost.

 

[LeProspector]

Without the playoffs or the Hlinka to boost prospects stocks late in the season like we see every year; we may see more steals from the second round onward this year.

 

[LeProspector]

You see this and you can only imagine how good he’s going to be playing with (more specifically) feeding NHL players.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

This kid is incredibly talented. This is all against men too. He may turn into a superstar.

2nd overall for me

 

[MatchesMalone]

Any thoughts on how skating should be properly evaluated? This seems to focus on straight line speed which is very important but I have seen discussions on here breaking down skating into other components. So what makes a great skater in your opinion and what relative value do you place on the various components of it?

I'm all about looking at those other components. The most fun thing is to try to figure out how prospects use their specific skating abilities to complement their style and overall skillset.

With Amirov I love his 10-2. He's a left shot right wing and he likes to skate out of the corner up along the right boards so the puck is to the outside across his body from his checker, and then he has the option to use his smooth edges to curl back, or he goes into that 10-2, opening his stance keeps distance between puck and checker, and he cuts hard along the blueline, creating the option from there to either shoot into traffic, hand off to his D, or continue in the 10-2 and attack up the middle. He's no Stranges for sure, but he's smarter about knowing how to use his skating strategically, creating a bunch of different options out of this one basic substrate.

My favorite thing about Holtz' skating is his ability to move multidirectionally. Depending where the puck is coming to him from in relation to where the net is, he'll be skating backward, sideways - he'd skate upside down if it would put him in a position to receive the pass and score a goal. He also has a quick first step in any direction and slick edges, which allows him to hide in coverage and suddenly slip into a dangerous spot at the right time.

The best part of Raymond's skating aside from speed is his powerful stride that allows him, from full speed, to suddenly explode laterally to evade defenders. Another strength is his ability to use his hands and feet deceptively in unison. Some players like Holtz have nifty stick maneuvers, but maybe not the shiftiest feet. Others like Amirov and Sanderson can be very deceptive with their skating, but don't quite have the hands to go with it. Raymond can put it all together at full speed.

Stützle and Rossi fall under that category as well, guys who can put it all together at full speed, although neither is as powerful a skater as Raymond. Both are such smooth and shifty skaters, so dangerous coming off the half wall into the high slot area, weaving through traffic while stickhandling in a phone booth. Don't ask what a phone booth is doing in traffic though.

I'll stop there, as it is clearly time for me to sleep.

 

[DrSense]

The best part of Raymond's skating aside from speed is his powerful stride that allows him, from full speed, to suddenly explode laterally to evade defenders. Another strength is his ability to use his hands and feet deceptively in unison. Some players like Holtz have nifty stick maneuvers, but maybe not the shiftiest feet. Others like Amirov and Sanderson can be very deceptive with their skating, but don't quite have the hands to go with it. Raymond can put it all together at full speed.

Stützle and Rossi fall under that category as well, guys who can put it all together at full speed, although neither is as powerful a skater as Raymond. Both are such smooth and shifty skaters, so dangerous coming off the half wall into the high slot area, weaving through traffic while stickhandling in a phone booth. Don't ask what a phone booth is doing in traffic though.

.

Interesting. Stutzle has always looked like as good if not a better skater to me than Raymond. Both are terrific though. And while Stutzle's first few strides and top speed are equally impressive, his change of gear and lateral movements while controlling the puck are what stand out most of all. That's where the Kane comparison's apply - the ability to effortlessly carry the puck up between the blue lines really stands out (and we don't have a lot of those players).

Either way, I wouldn't put Stutzle and Rossi's skating in the same sentence. Stutzle forces D to back off or he will fly by them, where Rossi isn't that type of player even in junior. He has decent speed at the OHL level, but is more of maestro out there on the outside, keeping control with his head on a swivel and dishing at the right time, where Stutzle often explodes towards the net with a quick lateral shift or juke to create in close chances. Big gap and differences in how they play.

Rewatching that Stutzle video, it was interesting to see his one-timer adjustments so often for goals (getting a good shot off regardless of whether the pass was front or back foot) and also the penalties he draws. I think he'll help create and convert a lot more powerplays at the NHL level for his team. I'm not sure he's ready for the NHL though, as he really does play pretty high risk (some of those dangles in front of his own net) and flies across the middle with abandon at times. He can't stop doing that, but jumping into the NHL with that playing style unrefined and used to NHL quality could be dangerous. He would be so much fun to watch though.

 

[BoardsofCanada]

Anyone wondering if Stutzle won't be quite as dazzling on the small NHL ice?

 

[MatchesMalone]

Interesting. Stutzle has always looked like as good if not a better skater to me than Raymond. Both are terrific though. And while Stutzle's first few strides and top speed are equally impressive, his change of gear and lateral movements while controlling the puck are what stand out most of all. That's where the Kane comparison's apply - the ability to effortlessly carry the puck up between the blue lines really stands out (and we don't have a lot of those players).

Either way, I wouldn't put Stutzle and Rossi's skating in the same sentence. Stutzle forces D to back off or he will fly by them, where Rossi isn't that type of player even in junior. He has decent speed at the OHL level, but is more of maestro out there on the outside, keeping control with his head on a swivel and dishing at the right time, where Stutzle often explodes towards the net with a quick lateral shift or juke to create in close chances. Big gap and differences in how they play.

Rewatching that Stutzle video, it was interesting to see his one-timer adjustments so often for goals (getting a good shot off regardless of whether the pass was front or back foot) and also the penalties he draws. I think he'll help create and convert a lot more powerplays at the NHL level for his team. I'm not sure he's ready for the NHL though, as he really does play pretty high risk (some of those dangles in front of his own net) and flies across the middle with abandon at times. He can't stop doing that, but jumping into the NHL with that playing style unrefined and used to NHL quality could be dangerous. He would be so much fun to watch though.

Oh man, yeah, no. I was just talking about specific aspects of their skating.

Stuetzle is definitely smoother and has better edges than Raymond. No idea who I'd say is the better skater overall; such different players. Just Raymond has the more powerful stride which gives him an element of what I'm calling explosiveness and which I wouldn't ascribe to Stuetzle.

I agree about Stuetzle's lateral movements, gorgeous. I hope I was clear what I meant about Raymond's ability to explode laterally, with Stuetzle it's that full, smooth but rapid lateral change of direction. What I meant about Raymond is his ability to move quickly from side to side while attacking forward.

Raymond is the better player attacking one on one. Stuetzle's forte is using his stickhandling on the perimeter - up and down the boards or across the high slot - to draw guys out of position and create mismatches in coverage (this is where the Kane comparison is strongest IMO).

I've said many times my absolute favorite thing about Stuetzle is his craftiness, putting the puck in people's feet, flipping it over their sticks, bouncing it off the boards or back of the net, he lures people into going after the puck and that's when he pounces. He just makes these seasoned pros in DEL look foolish. But yeah, from there he either uses his elite passing and vision to dish it off, or once he's got them hooked in he'll beat that first guy with a sudden change of speed or direction, or suddenly spin off of them.

Obviously Stuetzle is the much better overall skater than Rossi, that doesn't mean they can't be breathed in the same sentence. I certainly wasn't trying to compare the quality of their skating, but how they use their skating.

You're right that even within that same situation walking off the half wall there are major differences, but they still both excell in weaving across the high slot. Rossi might not be quite on Stuetzle's level as far as edges and deceptiveness, but he is still exceptional in those regards; people tend to vastly underrate Rossi's overall skating ability because he's not the fastest straight line skater.

I enjoyed your response, it helped further break down aspects of those three players' skating and how they use it.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Anyone wondering if Stutzle won't be quite as dazzling on the small NHL ice?

My opinion is that Stutzle and Raymond because of their speed, good first step, and agility will adapt fine to the small ice. The strengths in their skating and their puck skills will allow them to have success in smaller areas. I see it as a plus for them.

Dazzling less often but still dazzling .. but I think the level of competition will have more to do with that than the size of the ice.

 

[MatchesMalone]

Anyone wondering if Stutzle won't be quite as dazzling on the small NHL ice?

I doubt anyone does. I sure don't. My only question mark is his ability and willingness to score from the high danger areas. When a player is that smart and that gifted a skater, they tend to figure out how to put it together. Barzal and Kane are great examples of how Stuetzle will be able to translate to the NHL.

I just think that because of his style, his numbers will be dependent on variables like linemates and coaching style and like Barzal or Kane he's not going to put up remarkable numbers every year, but he'll always still be incredibly valuable because he will drive offensive zone possession.

On the other hand guys like Lafreniere and Raymond (if he can get strong enough) will always put up numbers because they make a living attacking and being around the net where NHL goals are scored.

 

[NHL Dude 120]

if we get lucky and keep 2 and 3 im willing to go with Byfield and Stützle provided we load up on Dmen in next years draft.

 

[bert]

Any thoughts on how skating should be properly evaluated? This seems to focus on straight line speed which is very important but I have seen discussions on here breaking down skating into other components. So what makes a great skater in your opinion and what relative value do you place on the various components of it?

Dont se how Byfield is 10 his stride and power is insane and will just get better the older and more coordinated he gets. Also Sanderson has to be in the top 10. Good list otherwise.

 

[DrSense]

Obviously Stuetzle is the much better overall skater than Rossi, that doesn't mean they can't be breathed in the same sentence. I certainly wasn't trying to compare the quality of their skating, but how they use their skating.

You're right that even within that same situation walking off the half wall there are major differences, but they still both excell in weaving across the high slot. Rossi might not be quite on Stuetzle's level as far as edges and deceptiveness, but he is still exceptional in those regards; people tend to vastly underrate Rossi's overall skating ability because he's not the fastest straight line skater.

I enjoyed your response, it helped further break down aspects of those three players' skating and how they use it.

I hear what you are saying re Rossi. Both use various tight turns down low and on the half boards to buy time and make feeds when they see openings with possession in the O zone. Rossi is very evasive on the cut backs on the cycle to buy time. Stutzle also did a number of the same loops in that video compilation Rossi likes to do to create different angles and looks, and wait for a breakdown before doing a slick feed off forehand or backhand as loops the perimeter in the offensive zone. Rossi might have a bit tougher time doing that at the pro level though without the quick gear. But my main concern with Rossi is when he gets to the NHL, he'll have a lot less time and space as a guy like Stutzle on the rush given D know his preference and will not be worried about getting beat 1 on 1 by him. It will just be a lot harder for him to actually gain the zone with the puck, where as D will be very wary of Stutzle's moves and speed, so he'll get an easier time of it to gain the zone. You just need to slightly beat a guy here and there in a game to be given more respect (let alone long-term scouting of a player and reputaion). And if Rossi can't gain the zone as easily, that impacts his upside in the top 6. I think that is why some see him as a winger, because once the team has possession down low, I expect Rossi to be decent at the NHL level.

 

[MatchesMalone]

I hear what you are saying re Rossi. Both use various tight turns down low and on the half boards to buy time and make feeds when they see openings with possession in the O zone. Rossi is very evasive on the cut backs on the cycle to buy time. Stutzle also did a number of the same loops in that video compilation Rossi likes to do to create different angles and looks, and wait for a breakdown before doing a slick feed off forehand or backhand as loops the perimeter in the offensive zone. Rossi might have a bit tougher time doing that at the pro level though without the quick gear. But my main concern with Rossi is when he gets to the NHL, he'll have a lot less time and space as a guy like Stutzle on the rush given D know his preference and will not be worried about getting beat 1 on 1 by him. It will just be a lot harder for him to actually gain the zone with the puck, where as D will be very wary of Stutzle's moves and speed, so he'll get an easier time of it to gain the zone. You just need to slightly beat a guy here and there in a game to be given more respect (let alone long-term scouting of a player and reputaion). And if Rossi can't gain the zone as easily, that impacts his upside in the top 6. I think that is why some see him as a winger, because once the team has possession down low, I expect Rossi to be decent at the NHL level.

Good point. Rossi will definitely do his best work offensively away from the puck in the NHL. I think he can be the type of guy who makes players around him better, but he probably won't put up huge numbers himself unless he has star linemates. He should for sure be a serious weapon on the powerplay though.

On gaining the zone, I'd say the best forwards in the draft at moving the puck through the neutral zone are Lafreniere, Amirov and Stuetzle.

By the way, Stützle should and almost certainly will end up being anglicized as Stuetzle, since we're dropping the umlaut. Same as when Müllers have come over it becomes Mueller.

 

[MatchesMalone]

Rewatching that Stutzle video, it was interesting to see his one-timer adjustments so often for goals (getting a good shot off regardless of whether the pass was front or back foot) and also the penalties he draws. I think he'll help create and convert a lot more powerplays at the NHL level for his team. I'm not sure he's ready for the NHL though, as he really does play pretty high risk (some of those dangles in front of his own net) and flies across the middle with abandon at times. He can't stop doing that, but jumping into the NHL with that playing style unrefined and used to NHL quality could be dangerous. He would be so much fun to watch though.

Off topic but have you had much chance to see Brad Lambert yet? Holt shit that kid is fun to watch. Like you said about Stützle, he'll gather the puck deep in his own zone and start deking out forecheckers in front of his own net but he'll pretty regularly beat two or three forecheckers by the time he enters the offensive zone.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Lottery Simulated 2020 NHL Mock Draft — Page 4 of 4 — Scrimmage and Stats

 

[bert]

Lottery Simulated 2020 NHL Mock Draft — Page 4 of 4 — Scrimmage and Stats

Id be pretty happy with that!

 

[Six Assets]

any interest in a hfsens lottery simulated draft?