NHL Entry Draft 2018 Tank Thread | Why Not Us? Why Not Now? | Sens Finish 30th, TOP 5 PICK GUARANTEED

[L'Aveuglette]

They did it because people were annoyed about Edmonton winning too many.

Yeah, and thus hurting deserving teams for years to come. :/

 

[saskriders]

Yeah, and thus hurting deserving teams for years to come. :/

I mentioned this the other day, but I really think the best solution is to have teams odds determined by three things:

-Place in the standings
-#of lottery picks won in the last x years
-#of cups (or maybe playoff rounds) won in the last x years

I like the idea of there being multiple lottery picks, hell I think I would even support a full lottery (as long as the standard odds of the basement teams falling too many places was virtually zero) since it would allow some movement between even teams in the 12-15 places (with teams playing different schedules and just choosing an arbitrary number of 82 games is it really that absurd to say 15 deserves a better pick than 13 despite getting more points). It just seems to me that in the current NHL too many teams get stuck in bubble team purgatory for too long and without getting at least a couple high end elite guys it is too difficult to become a contender.

 

[DrEasy]

Teams shouldn't be rewarded so much for stinking anyway. If anything, teams that barely missed out on the playoffs should get the highest picks. This way everybody has an incentive to win till the very end.

So just award picks in the order of the standings of teams that missed the playoffs.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

How about this:

Bottom 5 teams are in the lotto for picks 1 & 2. All remaining non-playoff teams are in the lotto for 3rd overall pick.

That way, the bottom 5 teams are guaranteed to get a pick in the top 6, while the true wildcard is that 3rd pick, that has the potential to give a bubble team a real boost.

Edit: Or have the bottom 5 in the lotto for first overall only, and then open up pick 2 and 3 to all the non-playoff teams in a lotto.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

And what's stupid is that all the people whining about "tanking" don't realize that with this dumbass system bad teams are probably going to be bad for longer.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Teams shouldn't be rewarded so much for stinking anyway. If anything, teams that barely missed out on the playoffs should get the highest picks. This way everybody has an incentive to win till the very end.

So just award picks in the order of the standings of teams that missed the playoffs.

That's a bad way of looking at things. Teams like us literally CAN'T win more because our rosters have too many holes. We need top 3 picks to actually have a chance at being good again.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

4th, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 5th, 2nd, 2nd, 5th

You're bad luck for us.

 

[DrEasy]

That's a bad way of looking at things. Teams like us literally CAN'T win more because our rosters have too many holes. We need top 3 picks to actually have a chance at being good again.

But you're saying this because we're in this position this year. Strictly from a fairness standpoint teams shouldn't be rewarded so much for stinking. Just think of all the picks Edmonton got recently. Or think of how Pittsburgh ends up with Crosby and co because they were bad.

I understand how we don't want a franchise to get stuck in the basement forever and eventually fold, but in my scheme all teams missing the playoffs would still draft ahead of the ones who make it. But I still want to reward the attempt to make the playoffs and competing till the end of the season.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

But you're saying this because we're in this position this year. Strictly from a fairness standpoint teams shouldn't be rewarded so much for stinking. Just think of all the picks Edmonton got recently. Or think of how Pittsburgh ends up with Crosby and co because they were bad.

I understand how we don't want a franchise to get stuck in the basement forever and eventually fold, but in my scheme all teams missing the playoffs would still draft ahead of the ones who make it. But I still want to reward the attempt to make the playoffs and competing till the end of the season.

Well in that case the current system is perfect for you, because there's a good chance at least one team from the middle of the pack will get a top-3 pick, if not more.

I just can't vouch for a lottery system in which we could end with a top-3 draft order of Florida, Edmonton and New York(for example).

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

But you're saying this because we're in this position this year. Strictly from a fairness standpoint teams shouldn't be rewarded so much for stinking. Just think of all the picks Edmonton got recently. Or think of how Pittsburgh ends up with Crosby and co because they were bad.

I understand how we don't want a franchise to get stuck in the basement forever and eventually fold, but in my scheme all teams missing the playoffs would still draft ahead of the ones who make it. But I still want to reward the attempt to make the playoffs and competing till the end of the season.

If a team is legitimately bad with numerous holes ont he roster, they absolutely should get a top pick.

The danger in the system right now, is a near-dynasty team like Chicago has the chance to get first overall simply because they overpaid a couple of their stars and had their goalie out with injury for a fluke poor season.

 

[JimmySpaetzle]

Yeah, that to me makes zero sense. Bottom 5 teams can all easily move down 3 spots which is just dumb. NHL math "wiz" can go F himself.

Some “analytics” guy probably thought it was a great idea

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

You're bad luck for us.

First try today... Yesterday there were too many negative ions mingled with the gravitrons

 

[BondraTime]

Basically if Buffalo is anywhere in the top-3, we automatically move to a 4th overall pick.

Yeah, not very accurate...

 

[DrEasy]

Well in that case the current system is perfect for you, because there's a good chance at least one team from the middle of the pack will get a top-3 pick, if not more.

I just can't vouch for a lottery system in which we could end with a top-3 draft order of Florida, Edmonton and New York(for example).

No, I don't like the lottery system, because you don't know anymore what you need to do in order to get a high pick.

Before the lottery system, the incentive was to tank. In the current system, it's *insert shrug emoji*. In my system, the incentive is to play hard till the end of the season.

In my system, Edmonton doesn't get all those top picks.

 

[Mingus Dew]

No, I don't like the lottery system, because you don't know anymore what you need to do in order to get a high pick.

Before the lottery system, the incentive was to tank. In the current system, it's *insert shrug emoji*. In my system, the incentive is to play hard till the end of the season.

In my system, Edmonton doesn't get all those top picks.

Yeah but this is like the regressive taxation argument (“if we tax people less as they make more money then they are incentivized to work harder and make more money”). The reality is that this leads to stratification, and truly awful teams will remain awful as there is no mechanism for them to improve via the draft.

I like the lottery because it more or less ensures that bad teams will still receive the lion’s share of the best players while also eliminating some of the incentive to deliberately tank. Seems like a good compromise to me.

It obviously sucks that we aren’t guaranteed 2nd overall (and Buffalo fans are probably still steamed about the Eichel thing), but if we had just missed the playoffs at least we would be looking forward to the possibility of moving up.

 

[DrEasy]

If a team is legitimately bad with numerous holes on the roster, they absolutely should get a top pick.
.

Why should a team be rewarded for being badly assembled? How is that fair? Sports is supposed to be a meritocracy. Maybe the last meritocracy we have.

The danger in the system right now, is a near-dynasty team like Chicago has the chance to get first overall simply because they overpaid a couple of their stars and had their goalie out with injury for a fluke poor season.

I don't like the current system either. It is injecting artificial excitement with no basis in merit.

 

[DrEasy]

Yeah but this is like the regressive taxation argument (“if we tax people less as they make more money then they are incentivized to work harder and make more money”).

Sure, but the difference being that we're talking about SPORTS here, not social justice. We want the best, the most talented, the hardest working, to be rewarded.

The reality is that this leads to stratification, and truly awful teams will remain awful as there is no mechanism for them to improve via the draft.

Step outside the American pro sports, and you'll see that everywhere else, if your soccer/basketball/... team sucks, well... it is RELEGATED, not REWARDED. Sure, it creates that stratification (it's always Man U, Bayern, Real Madrid winning), but it also makes the cinderella stories (Leicester) more intense.

In American franchise-based sports, the idea is that NHL/MLB etc don't want their franchises to fold if the teams lose too much, and so they've added this artificial parity and cyclicality (is that a word?) where bad teams are boosted. I understand this, and I am not advocating for getting rid of all parity mechanisms. For one, I'm all for salary caps. And my draft pick system still gives priority to teams that missed the playoffs. That should be enough IMO.

I want my team to win because it earned it, not because it stunk for X years and ended up drafting Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Staal, etc.

 

[CanadianHockey]

Step outside the American pro sports, and you'll see that everywhere else, if your soccer/basketball/... team sucks, well... it is RELEGATED, not REWARDED. Sure, it creates that stratification (it's always Man U, Bayern, Real Madrid winning), but it also makes the cinderella stories (Leicester) more intense.

The NHL has no economic incentive for the league to implement relegation, and economics are what drives NA pro sports.

What is best for the league, economically, is to be in the largest markets and have relative parity among those teams. The lottery helps create that parity.

I want my team to win because it earned it, not because it stunk for X years and ended up drafting Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Staal, etc.

This narrative has been debunked plenty of times. Winning the lottery does not guarantee success. If it did, Edmonton would be a perennial contender by now.

 

[Senscore]

One tweak I would like to see is that 3 teams can win the lottery but amongst those three winners they are sorted by point totals, with the worst team of the three getting top pick.

 

[Stylizer1]

4th, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 5th, 2nd, 2nd, 5th

Seriously. The Sens just aren't supposed to win nothing. I ran it 10 times had 1st, 2 2nd's and a bunch of 4th's & 5th's.

 

[DrEasy]

The NHL has no economic incentive for the league to implement relegation, and economics are what drives NA pro sports.

I acknowledged as much in my own post.

What is best for the league, economically, is to be in the largest markets and have relative parity among those teams. The lottery helps create that parity.

The salary cap creates parity. Giving picks in priority to teams missing the playoffs creates parity. I'm only arguing against too much artificial parity.

This narrative has been debunked plenty of times. Winning the lottery does not guarantee success. If it did, Edmonton would be a perennial contender by now.

(I don't know who debunked this because it sounds absurd to me, but I'll play along) Well then great! Get rid of the lottery!

 

[Wallet Inspector]

It is not about"rewarding" failure, it is about giving teams a chance to become contenders. It is not right to force fans of certain teams to watch their team always miss the playoffs out of some asinine sense of preserving "honour" or whatever.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Yeah, not very accurate...

Uhhh yeah? If Ottawa isn't lucky enough to win a drawing in the top-3 and Buffalo is (anywhere in top-3); Ottawa would pick 4th...

 

[Stylizer1]

The NHL has no economic incentive for the league to implement relegation, and economics are what drives NA pro sports.

What is best for the league, economically, is to be in the largest markets and have relative parity among those teams. The lottery helps create that parity.



This narrative has been debunked plenty of times. Winning the lottery does not guarantee success. If it did, Edmonton would be a perennial contender by now.

Winning the draft and building a contender are 2 different things and only competent management can bring those things together. Edmonton's was trying to recreate the Oilers of the 80's and ended up locking up players to crazy contrats before they needed to thus not allowing them to build a contender. They thought they were smart and in the end they handcuffed themselves. It is actually the Oilers of the 80's who have destroyed the team today

 

[tony d]

Good to see we'll get a top 5 pick out of it. I want Svechnikov if we stay at 2 but think if we got 5 we'd still get a solid player