Prospect Info: 2018 NHL Entry Draft - Hawks picking 8 and 27

[LDF]

BPA means you take the best player Bro it’s really simple. Take away positions and think who has biggest impact in your organization and you take them

so the bpa in the draft. so let me further give this conversation something else. lets assume we are talking d-men. the several players available are at best a second pairing d-men. the team has more than enuf of them and they are in need of a forward.

the best player in the draft is the d-men while the upside of the forward will fix a middle forward that the team is in need of. who to pick ??

 

[LDF]

it is true, some teams have players ranked even with each other and if they are different positions then that is where things start getting a bit murky like you said as obviously if you need a certain position more than another, the player at that position likely gets picked.

another great example.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

What LDF says is true. The waters usually get murkier for BPA once you move away from the top few picks of the draft.

If you're talking about consensus among scouts, media, fans - sure.

I think BPA still means the player X organization views as the best. Not sure why need would creep in more as you get lower in the draft. If you're basing it on need, then it's not necessarily BPA.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

so the bpa in the draft. so let me further give this conversation something else. lets assume we are talking d-men. the several players available are at best a second pairing d-men. the team has more than enuf of them and they are in need of a forward.

the best player in the draft is the d-men while the upside of the forward will fix a middle forward that the team is in need of. who to pick ??

That's called picking the best forward available, not the best overall player available.

 

[AmericanDream]

I think a better question would be - do teams skew their player lists based off of positional needs?? Meaning is a teams top 150 sometimes skewed because they know they are light on defense and overrate some defenders ranking them higher than they should be? I guarantee that happens more than you think...when you hear how one team has a completely different top 20 than another, you have to believe an organizational bias can creep in sometimes and jade their own rankings...and ranking local players higher than others happens a shit load too.

 

[Blue Liner]

I think a better question would be - do teams skew their player lists based off of positional needs?? Meaning is a teams top 150 sometimes skewed because they know they are light on defense and overrate some defenders ranking them higher than they should be? I guarantee that happens more than you think...when you hear how one team has a completely different top 20 than another, you have to believe an organizational bias can creep in sometimes and jade their own rankings...and ranking local players higher than others happens a **** load too.

Typically, no. It's generally a straight up ranking independent of position. Obviously draft day is fluid and there are trades, unexpected players coming off the board, contingency plans, etc. but typically each team's board is based on "the next best player" in a row. But again, obviously these things are not etched in stone and things change throughout the draft.

 

[AmericanDream]

Typically, no. It's generally a straight up ranking independent of position. Obviously draft day is fluid and there are trades, unexpected players coming off the board, contingency plans, etc. but typically each team's board is based on "the next best player" in a row. But again, obviously these things are not etched in stone and things change throughout the draft.

ok, I will put you on the spot BL - please explain this pick:

2010 NHL Draft -

Dallas Stars select 11th overall - Goalie - Jack Campbell

Now, are you going to tell me that Campbell was their BPA over guys like Fowler, Tarasenko and Gormley still on the board all consistently ranked higher by EVERYONE...or did they feel pressure because their goaltending was paper thin and selected him??? LOL, you are on the spot~!

 

[Blue Liner]

ok, I will put you on the spot BL - please explain this pick:

2010 NHL Draft -

Dallas Stars select 11th overall - Goalie - Jack Campbell

Now, are you going to tell me that Campbell was their BPA over guys like Fowler, Tarasenko and Gormley still on the board all consistently ranked higher by EVERYONE...or did they feel pressure because their goaltending was paper thin and selected him??? LOL, you are on the spot~!

Like I said, things change as the draft progresses. But...yes, we're talking NHL GMs here and they very well could have rated him that high.

But the overall board going in, generally, is an overall ranking independent of position. Generally. I can't speak for all 31 teams in every draft, but teams usually going into it in that mode but like the old fight saying goes via Mike Tyson, "Everyone has a plan until they get hit".

Another likely scenario is they heard someone else was going to take him that round and like you said, felt pressured to get a G so they did. Maybe they had ownership pressure to get a G. So many factors at stake there. It's a crazy ass day on that draft floor.

 

[AmericanDream]

Like I said, things change as the draft progresses. But...yes, we're talking NHL GMs here and they very well could have rated him that high.

But the overall board going in, generally, is an overall ranking independent of position. Generally. I can't speak for all 31 teams in every draft, but teams usually going into it in that mode but like the old fight saying goes via Mike Tyson, "Everyone has a plan until they get hit".

Another likely scenario is they heard someone else was going to take him that round and like you said, felt pressured to get a G so they did. Maybe they had ownership pressure to get a G. So many factors at stake there. It's a crazy ass day on that draft floor.

you should be a politician my friend, you slither nicely out of these questions lol!!

but that is my point, lists can get jaded or skewed a bit depending about whose "eyes" are on them and if they have an overreaching owner/VP/whatever who puts pressure on them picking said player at a certain position....

I still for the life of me have no clue why Dallas picked Campbell at 11, with Fowler still there. They needed Fowler more than Campbell who was years away. That pick made no sense then and still to this day has hurt their franchise, but I am just some online fool and never been in NHL management!!

Good points as well, love the Tyson reference as well. He might be considered one of the dumbest people alive, but he has more street smarts than anyone on this Earth.

 

[BK]

Wasn’t Campbell coming off an amazing WJC? Or am I confusing him with someone else?

 

[AmericanDream]

Wasn’t Campbell coming off an amazing WJC? Or am I confusing him with someone else?

yep, him and Fowler were on the same USA team that won the Gold...but Campbell wasn't even the starter, Mike Lee was and got pulled when Campbell stepped in and held us in it for the Gold.

 

[BK]

Interesting note: Hughes ranks 3rd in the NCAA in under 19 scoring....Ian Mitchell is ahead of him.

Hughes is really good but that should also give a glimpse of Mitchell’s talent.

Stat from the Athletic.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Interesting note: Hughes ranks 3rd in the NCAA in under 19 scoring....Ian Mitchell is ahead of him.

Hughes is really good but that should also give a glimpse of Mitchell’s talent.

Stat from the Athletic.

Mitchell's stock has certainly jumped up since being drafted. Hughes is obviously younger (9 months), but he's also a top 10 pick in this years draft.

 

[BK]

Mitchell's stock has certainly jumped up since being drafted. Hughes is obviously younger (9 months), but he's also a top 10 pick in this years draft.

Very much so. I just found it interesting.

 

[TLEH]

Ian Mitchell is and will be a STUD

 

[pvr]

I think trading Kempny and Pokka is the first step to making room for guys like Mitchell, Snuggerud, Dahlstrom, Forsling, and others. Need two of those guys to play to the 2-4D level in the reasonably near future. Doubt that Gustafsson figures in long term. I just hope that trading Kempny doesn't come back to bite us. Didn't get to show all that he is capable of, as far as I could tell.

 

[Blue Liner]

you should be a politician my friend, you slither nicely out of these questions lol!!

but that is my point, lists can get jaded or skewed a bit depending about whose "eyes" are on them and if they have an overreaching owner/VP/whatever who puts pressure on them picking said player at a certain position....

I still for the life of me have no clue why Dallas picked Campbell at 11, with Fowler still there. They needed Fowler more than Campbell who was years away. That pick made no sense then and still to this day has hurt their franchise, but I am just some online fool and never been in NHL management!!

Good points as well, love the Tyson reference as well. He might be considered one of the dumbest people alive, but he has more street smarts than anyone on this Earth.

Absolutely. Still a big human element there.

I don't get the Campbell pick either. I didn't then. I still don't. So odd. He definitely wasn't "we gotta take this guy high in the 1st Round" for me. Few goalies, if any, ever are for me.

 

[hawksfan50]

Now that we have 2 3rd rounders,our own and the higher of 2 picslots s the Caps own (either their Bowman or Toronto's 3rd) ....we should use it to draft another young goalie to develop ..Hopefully CC comes all the way back next season ..but if he continues to not last for a full seadon we eventually need goalies who can play without getting injured or subject to lingering health issues. .And we need young goalie depth I the pipeline anyway .Sp of our 2 3rd rounders ,1 ought to be a goalie for the future.

An alternative is to offer sheet some young goalie from another team who is an RFA but who his team may be in a cap constrained situational would not match.. Are there any candidates in such situations?

 

[ColdSteel2]

An alternative is to offer sheet some young goalie from another team who is an RFA but who his team may be in a cap constrained situational would not match.. Are there any candidates in such situations?

Actually, this would be a great year to do something like this.

Jusi Saros, Nashville
Tristain Jarry, Pittsburgh
Phillip Grubauer, Washington
Connor Hellybuck, Winnipeg
Jon Gillies, Calgary

Not sure of the exact cap situation of each team but those top 3 should qualify. I’d definitely go strong after Saros. Jarry or Grubauer as plan B. Gillies as plan C. Calgary has Rittich as an RFA too so they will be moving one of them.

 

[BK]

Hellybuck is a goalie I like a lot (remember summer discussions).

Grubbier might be available with what the Caps have in the pipeline.

I am a fan of Jarry as well.

 

[Callidusblackhawk]

I think trading Kempny and Pokka is the first step to making room for guys like Mitchell, Snuggerud, Dahlstrom, Forsling, and others. Need two of those guys to play to the 2-4D level in the reasonably near future. Doubt that Gustafsson figures in long term. I just hope that trading Kempny doesn't come back to bite us. Didn't get to show all that he is capable of, as far as I could tell.

From what I remember from the preseason (ah... those were the days) Snuggerud looked really promising. I think he would have been the rookie dman up with the team for most of the year if he hadn't got hurt.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

So, who do the Hawks look at taking with the late first they acquired today? Have seen a lot of mock drafts recently that had Preds taking K'Andre Miller and know he was mentioned on this board as a target before the Hawks began to tank and we looking at a pick in the 20s. If they stay at 8 and don't trade up, maybe go Wahlstrom there and defenseman late 1st.

 

[AmericanDream]

So, who do the Hawks look at taking with the late first they acquired today? Have seen a lot of mock drafts recently that had Preds taking K'Andre Miller and know he was mentioned on this board as a target before the Hawks began to tank and we looking at a pick in the 20s. If they stay at 8 and don't trade up, maybe go Wahlstrom there and defenseman late 1st.

K'Andre Miller would be a good target - massive upside but a lot of risk there as the kid just started playing defense a few years ago.

Mattias Samuelsson is another steady stay at home defender who likely will go in that 25-35 range...less risk IMO than Miller, but far less upside as well.

Jared McIsaac is the last name I would throw out there. Once hyped as a top 2-3 dman he has fallen some, and we know how we love players that seem to drop for no apparent reason - see DeBrincat and Saad. McIsaac is a strong two way defender that has above average mobility-

I like all 3 and all should go in the range of that Preds pick we got...

 

[hawksfan50]

I doubt Whalstrom gets past #7 and we are not tanking that low in tge standings of the league..

We took a lotbofvtruth Dmen last draft...This draft I woukd lije to add Centres ...


If we get a top 3 via lotto...tge of course Dahlstrom at #1...Probably Zadina at #2 (LW) and Svechnikov #3 (RW)...so tge 2nd first rounder ought to ve a Centre where we are thin in the pipeline. ..Yes I know Edjsell is listed as a C ...but we still need to develop more C's in the pipeline ...
I imagine if they can get a 1st for Anisimov at the draft then that woukd give us another 1st probably better than the Nashville pick we got ,and we coukd take a Centre with that middle of tge 3 firsts in that scenario (whwre we get a top 3 pick via lotto) ...

However if we just retain our final standings position without a move to a top 3 via lotto win,then in that scenario we could be drafting 8-13 ....Probably 10 or 11 seems most likely ..In this scenario we coulmd take Centre Isac Lundestrom or trade it down a few more spots if some team wants some target bad enough to give us our missing 2nd rounder and their own first...we probably could get C Jesperi Kotkaniemi in the late teens or trade down again for another first and 2nd to get Centre Jacob Olofsson ir Jack McBain late 20s.
Point is. ..we need to draft at least 1 centre this draft in round one level talent ...

As to tge goalie issue...There does nit seem to be a goalie who is consensus 1st round material this draft and I get the impression it is not a great crop even later though for sure some will go in rounds 2 and 3 ...Stan probably waits till round 3borc4 anyway before he will draft a goalie prospect ...and in any case they take several years to develop before the show.

Crawford is already 33 years void and IF he cam return, goalies can okay well till late 39s .. so probably 5 more years at least left in Crawford atvtop form ...IF he returns ...and IF he can regain his top form..Nut what if he is forced to retire be a use of this head injury /vertigo/concussion. .or whatever it is?

IN THAT CASE (Retirement forced by his condition) Hawks would definitely offer sheet Jarry or Saros or other RFA young goalies. But if Hawks think CC is back next season and able to reach top form again...they will not give up picks to offer sheet a goalie ...especialy since the 2019 2020 and 2021 drafts are excehtional in talent and depth...you do not want to give up any top 3 round picks in these drafts...

 

[BK]

How do we draft Dahlstrom when we already have him?

I would draft Dahlin personally.