2018 NHL Draft Discussion

[IPreferPi]

What I'm more interested in seeing develop in Wahlstrom game (or reemerge depending on who you talk to) is willingness to carry the puck and make plays with it. He's effective when he chooses to do this. He's more reliant on his shot than he needs to be. Some guys don't offer much beyond chilling in the cut and waiting to get their shot off. He's capable of more but doesn't show it enough. I feel like the primary difference between Wahlstrom and Zadina is that Zadina knows that he's hot **** and plays like it. Zadina gets that he's a start player and he wants that damn puck and he's going to take it. Wahlstrom I think understands that he has a great shot and that he wants to do more. I don't think that he quite gets how much he's already capable of doing. Zadina is a horse that requires no whip.

Agreed. And Wahlstrom will have the opportunity to show he can be the go-to guy who drives possession at BC next year.

 

[hbk]

I think many of you have group thinked Wahlstrom to 5. I like him but I just don’t see Chayka prioritizing a winger at 5 unless Zadina, Svechnikov fall. Even then I wouldn’t be surprised that we go RD.

 

[IPreferPi]

I think many of you have group thinked Wahlstrom to 5. I like him but I just don’t see Chayka prioritizing a winger at 5 unless Zadina, Svechnikov fall. Even then I wouldn’t be surprised that we go RD.

Then that should apply to Tkachuk too, then. At least Wahlstrom is a RH shot who would fit a positional need. There's still also the possibility Wahlstrom gets shifted to C.

 

[rt]

I think many of you have group thinked Wahlstrom to 5. I like him but I just don’t see Chayka prioritizing a winger at 5 unless Zadina, Svechnikov fall. Even then I wouldn’t be surprised that we go RD.

I think he'll be 8th or 9th on Bobby Mac's list. I suspect team lists will be all over the map this year. Even more so than most years. I personally like Wahlstrom 5th best. I don't expect him to go that high.

Some folks do have him pretty high. Pronman has him 5th. The Athletic mock had him 8th. If you accept that he's a consensus 8-10th player, it's really not outrageous that he would go 5th.

 

[rt]

I've been thinking about Chayka's recent comments about "premium positions" (meaning C and D) and earlier comments about "balancing the line up" (meaning more RHS).
-Prospects worth considering at pick five who are premium positions are Kotkaniemi (C), Hughes (D), Bouchard (D), Dobson (D), and Boqvist (D)
-Prospects worth considering at pick five who help balance the lineup are Walstrom (RHS), Bouchard (RHS), Dobson (RHS), and Boqvist (RHS)
-Prospects worth considering at pick five who are premium postions that also help balance the lineup are Bouchard (RHS), Dobson (RHS) and Boqvist (RHS)

I re-read Bob MacKenzie's last NHL Scout Poll article and he had this to say about Bouchard:
"Bouchard was the very clear No. 5 prospect on the Draft Lottery edition rankings, a notable cut below the Big Four but also notably ahead of the rest of the draft class, including the three other defencemen who appear locked and loaded as Top 10 picks this year."
-https://www.tsn.ca/the-big-four-solidify-spots-in-tsn-draft-ranking-1.1066345

I was also thinking about these comments by Rick Tocchet in a recent interview:
“Our defense was the heartbeat of our team when healthy. If you look at our division, I think they’re as good as anybody. OEL’s last three months, that was star status, the way he played. Nik Hjalmarsson gave us some great games when he was healthy. Alex Goligoski, of all the guys, he gets my system the best and as the season went on he started to play better because he understands and he likes what I preach. "
-http://arizonasports.com/story/1531557/coyotes-rick-tocchet-i-dont-want-to-be-watching-playoff-hockey-again/

I like Quinn Hughes a lot. He's tied for third on my list with Zadina. There are only two players in this draft I'd definitely take before him. When I consider how he would fit on our team, I get nervous. He does not fit with what Rick Tocchet is saying above. Tocchet (and I assume Allen) want our D to make quick decisions with the puck. They want them to process quickly and move the puck in a flash. He's not talking about skating the puck. He's talking about passing the puck. Part of the reason OEL struggled was because he wants to lug the puck up ice. He wants to skate it into the zone, and possess it. It's also why Goligoski and Demers struggled very early in the season. I'm sure many of you recall all of the insanely bad passing. Trying to think too quick. Passing without even looking. Goligoski and Demers were both terible in this regard early. Goligoski "got it" a lot quicker and was our best D while Hjalmarsson was hurt and until OEL "got it" later. Demers eventually came around too. But that's not Quinn Hughes. That's the anti-Quinn Hughes.

To a lesser extent, this also applies to Dobson. He's very much dependent on skating with the puck.
Evan Bouchard is not. He's got an elite stretch pass. He's excellent and break outs and zone entries via moving the puck. Even on the PP, he's a give-and-go master. I think he's the picture of what Tocchet and Co. want to see from a D, in this regard.

I think Bouchard's offense is a much more translatable to the NHL than Dobson's. I think Bouchard's instincts and IQ in the O-Zone are a lot better. Dobson's offensive games is based a lot on physical tools and a big shot that takes a long time to get off and misses the mark a lot. Bouchard's is more understated and effective. He doesn't go in for all that around-the-world stuff Hughes (and to a lesser extent, Dobson) likes so much.

I guess my point is that as a hockey fan who likes to be entertained and watch players showcase their elite skating and puckhandling skills, I love Hughes.
If I'm a gambler, trying to make some money on predicting who the Coyotes like the best, I think I'd put my money on Bouchard over Hughes or Dobson.

PS
I left out Boqvist. Here's where I see them on the scale:
Around the World Type <---Hughes---Boqvist---Dobson---Bouchard--->Make the Quick Litte Play Type

PPS
I would also like to mention that in terms of team need, I think Bouchard and Boqvist match better than Hughes or Dobson. The reason being that I don't see Dobson as a big time PP asset in the future. Hughes, definitely will be but he's LD like OEL, Goligoski, Hjalmarasson, Chychrun, POJ, Capobianco and Dineen. The right side is much more spars for potential PP weapons with Kyle Wood all by himself. Demers, Crotty and Westerlund don't count. So this is another area (team need) that I think Bouchard has an edge on Dobson and Hughes.

 

[rt]

Whoa. Just read this: Brown: A data-driven comparison of Evan Bouchard and Noah...

Which essentially says a lot of the same things I just did. What makes Bouchard good is a little bit different than what makes Dobson good, and they're pretty even prospects. However, based on what I suspect about our team preferences and our team needs, I think the things that make Bouchard good are a much better fit for us than the things that make Dobson good.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

After reading the last 2 pages I don't want to draft a single f***ing player because all of them are worth shit.

 

[hbk]

Then that should apply to Tkachuk too, then. At least Wahlstrom is a RH shot who would fit a positional need. There's still also the possibility Wahlstrom gets shifted to C.

Absolutely it could. I know I’m almost alone on an island here with having Tkachuk in my top 3 but I’m leaning more and more to taking Bouchard.

 

[hbk]

I think he'll be 8th or 9th on Bobby Mac's list. I suspect team lists will be all over the map this year. Even more so than most years. I personally like Wahlstrom 5th best. I don't expect him to go that high.

Some folks do have him pretty high. Pronman has him 5th. The Athletic mock had him 8th. If you accept that he's a consensus 8-10th player, it's really not outrageous that he would go 5th.

No. I know it’s not outrageous. I just think the percentage of Coyote fans on this board with Wahlstrom firmly at 5 seems high to me.

 

[rt]

Then that should apply to Tkachuk too, then. At least Wahlstrom is a RH shot who would fit a positional need. There's still also the possibility Wahlstrom gets shifted to C.

0% chance. Guy is just about the wingiest winger who ever winged.

 

[hbk]

I've been thinking about Chayka's recent comments about "premium positions" (meaning C and D) and earlier comments about "balancing the line up" (meaning more RHS).
-Prospects worth considering at pick five who are premium positions are Kotkaniemi (C), Hughes (D), Bouchard (D), Dobson (D), and Boqvist (D)
-Prospects worth considering at pick five who help balance the lineup are Walstrom (RHS), Bouchard (RHS), Dobson (RHS), and Boqvist (RHS)
-Prospects worth considering at pick five who are premium postions that also help balance the lineup are Bouchard (RHS), Dobson (RHS) and Boqvist (RHS)

I re-read Bob MacKenzie's last NHL Scout Poll article and he had this to say about Bouchard:
"Bouchard was the very clear No. 5 prospect on the Draft Lottery edition rankings, a notable cut below the Big Four but also notably ahead of the rest of the draft class, including the three other defencemen who appear locked and loaded as Top 10 picks this year."
-https://www.tsn.ca/the-big-four-solidify-spots-in-tsn-draft-ranking-1.1066345

I was also thinking about these comments by Rick Tocchet in a recent interview:
“Our defense was the heartbeat of our team when healthy. If you look at our division, I think they’re as good as anybody. OEL’s last three months, that was star status, the way he played. Nik Hjalmarsson gave us some great games when he was healthy. Alex Goligoski, of all the guys, he gets my system the best and as the season went on he started to play better because he understands and he likes what I preach. "
-http://arizonasports.com/story/1531557/coyotes-rick-tocchet-i-dont-want-to-be-watching-playoff-hockey-again/

I like Quinn Hughes a lot. He's tied for third on my list with Zadina. There are only two players in this draft I'd definitely take before him. When I consider how he would fit on our team, I get nervous. He does not fit with what Rick Tocchet is saying above. Tocchet (and I assume Allen) want our D to make quick decisions with the puck. They want them to process quickly and move the puck in a flash. He's not talking about skating the puck. He's talking about passing the puck. Part of the reason OEL struggled was because he wants to lug the puck up ice. He wants to skate it into the zone, and possess it. It's also why Goligoski and Demers struggled very early in the season. I'm sure many of you recall all of the insanely bad passing. Trying to think too quick. Passing without even looking. Goligoski and Demers were both terible in this regard early. Goligoski "got it" a lot quicker and was our best D while Hjalmarsson was hurt and until OEL "got it" later. Demers eventually came around too. But that's not Quinn Hughes. That's the anti-Quinn Hughes.

To a lesser extent, this also applies to Dobson. He's very much dependent on skating with the puck.
Evan Bouchard is not. He's got an elite stretch pass. He's excellent and break outs and zone entries via moving the puck. Even on the PP, he's a give-and-go master. I think he's the picture of what Tocchet and Co. want to see from a D, in this regard.

I think Bouchard's offense is a much more translatable to the NHL than Dobson's. I think Bouchard's instincts and IQ in the O-Zone are a lot better. Dobson's offensive games is based a lot on physical tools and a big shot that takes a long time to get off and misses the mark a lot. Bouchard's is more understated and effective. He doesn't go in for all that around-the-world stuff Hughes (and to a lesser extent, Dobson) likes so much.

I guess my point is that as a hockey fan who likes to be entertained and watch players showcase their elite skating and puckhandling skills, I love Hughes.
If I'm a gambler, trying to make some money on predicting who the Coyotes like the best, I think I'd put my money on Bouchard over Hughes or Dobson.

PS
I left out Boqvist. Here's where I see them on the scale:
Around the World Type <---Hughes---Boqvist---Dobson---Bouchard--->Make the Quick Litte Play Type

PPS
I would also like to mention that in terms of team need, I think Bouchard and Boqvist match better than Hughes or Dobson. The reason being that I don't see Dobson as a big time PP asset in the future. Hughes, definitely will be but he's LD like OEL, Goligoski, Hjalmarasson, Chychrun, POJ, Capobianco and Dineen. The right side is much more spars for potential PP weapons with Kyle Wood all by himself. Demers, Crotty and Westerlund don't count. So this is another area (team need) that I think Bouchard has an edge on Dobson and Hughes.

rt, we are starting to think too much alike. Great post.

 

[TheLegend]

After reading the last 2 pages I don't want to draft a single ****ing player because all of them are worth ****.

That settles it... we’re trading down and out of the first round...

I get your confusion though. These guys have had me jumping from one guy to the next.

 

[TheLegend]

No. I know it’s not outrageous. I just think the percentage of Coyote fans on this board with Wahlstrom firmly at 5 seems high to me.

Could be because they (including myself) feel we need forward help more than anything and Wahlstrom checked the most boxes in that regard.

 

[hbk]

Could be because they (including myself) feel we need forward help more than anything and Wahlstrom checked the most boxes in that regard.

With Domi, Fisher, Perlini, Keller, Crouse, and Merkley already in the system is - winger our biggest weakness up front?

More questions on who is the 2C next year IMO if we were looking to address immediate forward needs. And as much as I like the Finish C he’s a couple years away.

 

[Mosby]

I really think Carolina will take Tkachuk at 2.

 

[IPreferPi]

With Domi, Fisher, Perlini, Keller, Crouse, and Merkley already in the system is - winger our biggest weakness up front?

Perlini is the only sniper out of all of those. And he didn’t have as impressive goal scoring upside as a prospect compared to Wahlstrom.

We’ve lacked a perrenial 30+ goal scorer for as long as we’ve lacked a 1C. Winger may not be our biggest organizational weakness but goal scoring absolutely still is.

 

[TheLegend]

With Domi, Fisher, Perlini, Keller, Crouse, and Merkley already in the system is - winger our biggest weakness up front?

More questions on who is the 2C next year IMO if we were looking to address immediate forward needs. And as much as I like the Finish C he’s a couple years away.

Some have had doubts about Merkley at the NHL level.... some not sure which Domi will show up this fall.... etc. etc.

I don’t but our current D roster is much better shape than our forward package. Although I can admit the D does need some more depth.

 

[Neighborhood Coyote]

I'm gonna need the next 20 days to go by a lot faster! Haha

 

[SML2]

Anyone want to GM for you guys in the 10 pm sim on draftwired? We could use a gm for you guys.

http://draftwired.com:8888/apps/dwNHL

 

[hbk]

Some have had doubts about Merkley at the NHL level.... some not sure which Domi will show up this fall.... etc. etc.

I don’t but our current D roster is much better shape than our forward package. Although I can admit the D does need some more depth.

Our LD is great. Our RD depth? It’s an issue.

I get upside of Wahlstrom and I do have him high on my list. I’ve just seen too many top 10 wingers fail to live up to the hype and I think it’s much easier to find a winger than it is a top pairing RD.

 

[IPreferPi]

Our LD is great. Our RD depth? It’s an issue.

I get upside of Wahlstrom and I do have him high on my list. I’ve just seen too many top 10 wingers fail to live up to the hype and I think it’s much easier to find a winger than it is a top pairing RD.

There's quite a few RHDs with Top 4 ability in the second and third rounds this year. I agree we lack a top pairing RHD in the system but we've also seen D with skating issues fail to pan out nearly as much as we've seen hyped wingers fail to live up to the hype.

 

[lanky]

Kotkaniemi!!!!

Can't wait to hear Tyson Nash butcher that name on a nightly basis.

 

[hbk]

There's quite a few RHDs with Top 4 ability in the second and third rounds this year. I agree we lack a top pairing RHD in the system but we've also seen D with skating issues fail to pan out nearly as much as we've seen hyped wingers fail to live up to the hype.

Gormley being one of them. Fair point.

Tell you what. Pick 5 is going to be interesting. I’m okay with whatever the team does.

 

[IPreferPi]

Gormley being one of them. Fair point.

Tell you what. Pick 5 is going to be interesting. I’m okay with whatever the team does.

Agreed. Chayka and our scouts have earned the benefit of the doubt. I have clear preferences but with a lot of interesting talent in this year's top 10 it's going to take a real left field pick at 5 for me to be truly annoyed.

 

[Matias Maccete]

Agreed. Chayka and our scouts have earned the benefit of the doubt. I have clear preferences but with a lot of interesting talent in this year's top 10 it's going to take a real left field pick at 5 for me to be truly annoyed.

Agreed, I'm psyched for prospect camp.