2017 Draft - 1st Pick: Kailer Yamamoto - Signs ELC

[nabob]

Yamo has the potential to be Eberle with a better 2way game...and that is pretty damn good. His shot reminds me of Ebs infact

Eberle killed penalties in junior, scored a bunch of shorties, and actually had a great two way game. He just got lazy when he got his big contract. Hopefully KY has a better work ethic.

 

[MoneyGuy]

im fine if he needs ahl time but sending him back to JR would be a terrible idea. he has proven he can completely dominate the game in the WHL he needs to work on his transition to pro hockey.

if I was a betting man id bet he is an oiler starting next year and never sees the AHL. although he might play AHL after the JR season is done potentially.

If I was a betting man, which I am, I'd bet that he spends the first several games here and then gets sent down. That'd be the smart thing to do so maybe not.

 

[Aerchon]

Yamamoto being such a late birthday really gives him a big advantage in development especially with his size. He is basically a full year older than some prospects and is more mature physically and mentally, relatively speaking. Being AHL eligible in his draft +2 year is awesome. He could, and imo should, go straight to the Ahl and avoid the extremely useless second year of junior that most high end prospects dont need.

All first round talents should have the option to goto the AHL in thier second year. A lot of development issues stem from that stupid restriction.

 

[Fourier]

The team's goal should be to win. If they will win more with Yamamoto in the line-up than with someone else he should be with the big club. If not he is in Bakersfield. But my concern is what happens to him in Bak. So far the message for the most skilled players seems to have been "defense first, defense second, and then think more about your play away from the puck". That's all we ever heard about Jesse. The focus seemed to be almost entirely on his play away from the puck. At some point you have to let your skilled guys play to their strengths. This does not mean always cheating for offense. But you don't want everyone to go the same route as Nuge.

 

[Canovin]

Yamamoto being such a late birthday really gives him a big advantage in development especially with his size. He is basically a full year older than some prospects and is more mature physically and mentally, relatively speaking. Being AHL eligible in his draft +2 year is awesome. He could, and imo should, go straight to the Ahl and avoid the extremely useless second year of junior that most high end prospects dont need.

All first round talents should have the option to goto the AHL in thier second year. A lot of development issues stem from that stupid restriction.

I for one have more faith in the junior teams developing our prospects than our AHL team. Do their time in juniors, skip the AHL and come straight to the NHL.

 

[Aerrol]

The team's goal should be to win. If they will win more with Yamamoto in the line-up than with someone else he should be with the big club. If not he is in Bakersfield. But my concern is what happens to him in Bak. So far the message for the most skilled players seems to have been "defense first, defense second, and then think more about your play away from the puck". That's all we ever heard about Jesse. The focus seemed to be almost entirely on his play away from the puck. At some point you have to let your skilled guys play to their strengths. This does not mean always cheating for offense. But you don't want everyone to go the same route as Nuge.

Hear hear. As mad as I am about the big club (fire Chia, fire McLellan, fire someone PLEASE), I'd be almost as happy if we flushed our AHL coaching staff. They've done a miserable job at developing some pretty intriguing talents. We really need to make a change there.

 

[Stoneman89]

The team's goal should be to win. If they will win more with Yamamoto in the line-up than with someone else he should be with the big club. If not he is in Bakersfield. But my concern is what happens to him in Bak. So far the message for the most skilled players seems to have been "defense first, defense second, and then think more about your play away from the puck". That's all we ever heard about Jesse. The focus seemed to be almost entirely on his play away from the puck. At some point you have to let your skilled guys play to their strengths. This does not mean always cheating for offense. But you don't want everyone to go the same route as Nuge.

Yes, the #1 goal is to win at the big league level, but also not to have a young player stagnate in a tiny role while doing so. I'm all for giving the kid another chance this fall, but a lot of guys look terrific in TC and even the first bit of the season, but tend to sink badly after that. We'll see how he's progressed this fall.

As for our farm team/system limiting offensive growth, I don't really see that. Most of the guys we've had down on the farm have pretty limited offensive capabilities to begin with, so not much to stifle. Jesse's problem, as I see it, was more about being comfortable with the language and adjusting to the NA ice surface. I thought he lost some confidence when he was up with the big club and needed the rest of the year to get it back and acclimatized with Backo. Based on how he's come on this year, I think they did the right thing at the end. Nuge has spent the majority of his career trying to be all things to all people, in lineups that were bereft of any helpful veteran help (other than Horcoff for a short period of time), and has really never found his place. I don't think he's built to be a protoypical 3rd line centre, and is more suited as a 2nd line guy. But I don't see that happening here, so the clock is likely ticking on his Oiler career.

 

[Stoneman89]

Hear hear. As mad as I am about the big club (fire Chia, fire McLellan, fire someone PLEASE), I'd be almost as happy if we flushed our AHL coaching staff. They've done a miserable job at developing some pretty intriguing talents. We really need to make a change there.

Who are all these intriguing talents that have been wasted down there? As for firing anyone within range, knee jerk is not the way to go right now.

 

[Aerrol]

Who are all these intriguing talents that have been wasted down there? As for firing anyone within range, knee jerk is not the way to go right now.

Every single pick we've had after the first round? They weren't all bad picks, and every good organization turns SOME late picks into NHL players. We, on the other hand continually fail to do so. Some of the intriguing round picks we've had that turned into absolutely nothing: Greg Chase, Marc Olivier-Roy, Paigin, Yakimov, Marincin, Gernat, Hartikaainen, Rajala. Jones currently is struggling and sure doesn't sound anything like the exciting player he was in Jr's. Many of our forward prospects struggled to get time, even top quality players like Pulju. At least with Nelson we were winning down there - now we're not even doing that. Why shouldn't we try a change?

And I completely disagree that we need more patience, but I'm not going to turn this into another fire X thread. Suffice to say that this organization needs to show that accountability exists.

 

[CupofOil]

Every single pick we've had after the first round? They weren't all bad picks, and every good organization turns SOME late picks into NHL players. We, on the other hand continually fail to do so. Some of the intriguing round picks we've had that turned into absolutely nothing: Greg Chase, Marc Olivier-Roy, Paigin, Yakimov, Marincin, Gernat, Hartikaainen, Rajala. Jones currently is struggling and sure doesn't sound anything like the exciting player he was in Jr's. Many of our forward prospects struggled to get time, even top quality players like Pulju. At least with Nelson we were winning down there - now we're not even doing that. Why shouldn't we try a change?

And I completely disagree that we need more patience, but I'm not going to turn this into another fire X thread. Suffice to say that this organization needs to show that accountability exists.

You're mentioning players from a previous regime.
Have you looked at the Bakersfield roster this season? It's a barren wasteland of talent especially up front, there's no players with any hope of an NHL future outside of MAYBE Gambardella.
There has been a development problem for years and a pattern of junior players fizzling out once they hit the pros but is it really Fleming's fault that he has zero talent to work with?
I'd be hard pressed to find another AHL franchise with less NHL level talent.

 

[Aerrol]

You're mentioning players from a previous regime.
Have you looked at the Bakersfield roster this season? It's a barren wasteland of talent especially up front, there's no players with any hope of an NHL future outside of MAYBE Gambardella.
There has been a development problem for years and a pattern of junior players fizzling out once they hit the pros but is it really Fleming's fault that he has zero talent to work with?
I'd be hard pressed to find another AHL franchise with less NHL level talent.

I don't disagree with you that the talent doesn't look great, but Nelson took some equally garbage teams a lot further. I'll admit that going solely by winning record isn't really the measuring stick I want (I'd prefer to go by NHLers developed) but I think it's a reasonable metric to use. And to flip the question around, honestly what has Fleming done to show he deserves to keep his job? Or deserved it to start with? I legitimately know nothing about him other than he was with our organization a long time.. And with the Oilers that's a big strike against.

 

[Stoneman89]

Every single pick we've had after the first round? They weren't all bad picks, and every good organization turns SOME late picks into NHL players. We, on the other hand continually fail to do so. Some of the intriguing round picks we've had that turned into absolutely nothing: Greg Chase, Marc Olivier-Roy, Paigin, Yakimov, Marincin, Gernat, Hartikaainen, Rajala. Jones currently is struggling and sure doesn't sound anything like the exciting player he was in Jr's. Many of our forward prospects struggled to get time, even top quality players like Pulju. At least with Nelson we were winning down there - now we're not even doing that. Why shouldn't we try a change?

And I completely disagree that we need more patience, but I'm not going to turn this into another fire X thread. Suffice to say that this organization needs to show that accountability exists.

If none of them ever have a chance at the NHL, then you can say on the whole, they were not very good picks. All of those you mentioned were not very great picks, and none of them has turned out, intriguing or not with our organization or any other. As for Caleb Jones, this is his first year out of junior for God's sake, give the guy and org a chance. You think he should just show up in a tough man's league like the AHL and light it up in his first year? This organizations biggest fail has been drafting anything of quality after the first round, and even some of the first round selections have been iffy, to say the least.

As for Nelson, in spite of the winning, I don't recall a plethora of players called up from his teams that made an impact on our roster. There was a lot of struggling then as well. The #1 priority down there is to develop NHL players to help the big league team. Winning is great and obviously important, but if you win and no one down there is able to play up here, what is the point? As was stated, there is not a lot of forward talent down there, so I'm not sure who is really being shafted by learning to play a defensive system.

 

[CupofOil]

I don't disagree with you that the talent doesn't look great, but Nelson took some equally garbage teams a lot further. I'll admit that going solely by winning record isn't really the measuring stick I want (I'd prefer to go by NHLers developed) but I think it's a reasonable metric to use. And to flip the question around, honestly what has Fleming done to show he deserves to keep his job? Or deserved it to start with? I legitimately know nothing about him other than he was with our organization a long time.. And with the Oilers that's a big strike against.

Honestly, I don't know what the problem is down there but I look at the lineup and see nothing intriguing whatsoever outside of a few D prospects who look like bottom pairing Dmen at best at the NHL level. I don't know anything about the systems and player usage so I'm not sure how to rate Fleming, maybe those who watch Bakersfield more frequently can shed some light on this.

As far as the prospect pool is concerned, we need more time to assess as the 2015 draft was a giant wasted opportunity and the last two drafts are too early to assess and the college signings are in the NHL so it's going to take time to restock the cupboard. This is why I'm greatly opposed to dealing any high picks unless it's in a bigger package for a top pairing Dman.

 

[Aerrol]

Honestly, I don't know what the problem is down there but I look at the lineup and see nothing intriguing whatsoever outside of a few D prospects who look like bottom pairing Dmen at best at the NHL level. I don't know anything about the systems and player usage so I'm not sure how to rate Fleming, maybe those who watch Bakersfield more frequently can shed some light on this.

As far as the prospect pool is concerned, we need more time to assess as the 2015 draft was a giant wasted opportunity and the last two drafts are too early to assess and the college signings are in the NHL so it's going to take time to restock the cupboard. This is why I'm greatly opposed to dealing any high picks unless it's in a bigger package for a top pairing Dman.

Re: the bolded, I absolutely agree. For us at HFOil, it was a shame that the team left OKC since we had some pretty consistent updates from OKC fans and none it seems from Bakersfield.

I guess I could be mollified with some other significant updates in how we develop our prospects (instructions from head office, one on one time, off season support etc), but I'm so fed up with our development system that I'd like to see changes made with the AHL coach. I just don't see a reason to keep him around other than an inability to get a quality replacement. I haven't read or seen a single thing about Fleming that speaks to some strength of his. Does he teach defence well? Does he teach players how to run a PP? Improvement in conditioning?

Barring tidbits like that, I go to wins. And he's failing there too. And from those following Pulju, I saw a lot of negative remarks about his usage too.

So I guess I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise as the evidence I have seen is thin, but all of it has been negative regarding Fleming.

 

[Aerrol]

If none of them ever have a chance at the NHL, then you can say on the whole, they were not very good picks. All of those you mentioned were not very great picks, and none of them has turned out, intriguing or not with our organization or any other. As for Caleb Jones, this is his first year out of junior for God's sake, give the guy and org a chance. You think he should just show up in a tough man's league like the AHL and light it up in his first year? This organizations biggest fail has been drafting anything of quality after the first round, and even some of the first round selections have been iffy, to say the least.

As for Nelson, in spite of the winning, I don't recall a plethora of players called up from his teams that made an impact on our roster. There was a lot of struggling then as well. The #1 priority down there is to develop NHL players to help the big league team. Winning is great and obviously important, but if you win and no one down there is able to play up here, what is the point? As was stated, there is not a lot of forward talent down there, so I'm not sure who is really being shafted by learning to play a defensive system.

Sorry to give a short answer to a quality post, but I feel my answer to McCupofOil is more or less the same as to you. The short of it is: what evidence has Fleming given at all that he's worth keeping around? E.g. I am very unhappy with McLellan this year, but I'd say his work teaching the team structured 5 on 5 play has been on the whole excellent.

 

[Lacaar]

I have zero faith in the developmental capabilities of this organization.
If we weren't so abysmal at development then Bakersfield would be a good place for him.

Who's the last player Bakersfield produced for us? We Jujar who is fighting for a a regular spot in the lineup. Nurse barely played for the farm team.

Guess that's the best we got.. a struggling to stay in the lineup fourth liner.

Our development team down there sucks a giant sack of turd if we're measuring results... which is all I've got to go by.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I have zero faith in the developmental capabilities of this organization.
If we weren't so abysmal at development then Bakersfield would be a good place for him.

Who's the last player Bakersfield produced for us? We Jujar who is fighting for a a regular spot in the lineup. Nurse barely played for the farm team.

Guess that's the best we got.. a struggling to stay in the lineup fourth liner.

Our development team down there sucks a giant sack of turd if we're measuring results... which is all I've got to go by.

The last player the Oilers arguably developed properly was Jordan Eberle. Go figure.

 

[MoneyGuy]

Yamamoto, Benson and Jones are all on my top-50 list. Disclosure: I don't really have a list so don't ask to see it but they'd be there if I did.

 

[MessierII]

Yamamoto, Benson and Jones are all on my top-50 list. Disclosure: I don't really have a list so don't ask to see it but they'd be there if I did.

Bear >>> Jones

 

[Senor Catface]

The last player the Oilers arguably developed properly was Jordan Eberle. Go figure.

Klefbom, Khaira, Pitlick.

 

[MoneyGuy]

Bear >>> Jones

I think Jones will be the better pro.

 

[MessierII]

I think Jones will be the better pro.

Bear has been the better pro so far.

 

[fuswald]

The team's goal should be to win. If they will win more with Yamamoto in the line-up than with someone else he should be with the big club. If not he is in Bakersfield. But my concern is what happens to him in Bak. So far the message for the most skilled players seems to have been "defense first, defense second, and then think more about your play away from the puck". That's all we ever heard about Jesse. The focus seemed to be almost entirely on his play away from the puck. At some point you have to let your skilled guys play to their strengths. This does not mean always cheating for offense. But you don't want everyone to go the same route as Nuge.

Bakersfield has very few great players. Only way to win is defensively. Our AHL cupboard is bare.

AHL isn't school. It's a minor hockey league. Coaches job is to win and at the same time try to put players in a position to succeed. I'm sure they want to help develop talent but they aren't magicians. I bet in some ways AHL coaches have it tougher than NHL coaches. Every time someone good comes along they get pilfered.

Gee Puljujärvi got ruined because of the AHL.

Maybe the defensive side of the game is as important if not more important than offense.

Then there is the amount of playing time. The guys who are better get more time. Older guys have an advantage of course. As it should be. Time is earned not gifted.

 

[Panda Bear]

Todd Nelson took this team to the third round of the AHL playoffs in 2011-12: Oklahoma City Barons 2011-12 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com.

It's not an exciting list of prospects. Pitlick, Hamilton and Martindale were all rushed to the AHL, and Lander was rushed to the NHL. But if you sort by age to get a good look at our draft picks, there's really no one who amounted to much. Pitlick and Paajarvi are the only players still in the NHL today. Those are indictments of player management and drafting, not Nelson.

 

[MoneyGuy]

Bear has been the better pro so far.

If only that was the indicator of who will be the better pro.