2017/2018 Management Discussion | NEW MOD WARNING IN OP AS OF 5/20/18

[Jack Burton]

Has Aquaman come to his senses yet?

Let's hope he clues in before these morons can do anymore damage.

 

[MS]

He was getting death threats because he traded a popular player. Was it a good trade, yes or no? How did it turn out for the team? I do not follow the NBA so I have no clue.

Mike Keenan probably got death threads for trading Trevor Linden too but that was a good trade for us.

I really think nothing of Weisbrod; he comes off like a used car salesman and his association with Benning alone is enough to sour me on him, but I am interested in someone making a persuasive argument about him as an executive or about his tenure with the Magic and I am just not seeing it.

The McGrady deal was basically the NBA's version of the Joe Thornton trade, made at almost the same time for the same reasons, for a similar package.

Orlando had had a terrible year the year before but had the 24 y/o 2x defending scoring champion on their team, and decided he wasn't a guy you 'win with'. So they traded him, which in and of itself might not have been the worst idea - if they had rebuilt and picked up top young talent to put into their lineup alongside #1 overall pick Dwight Howard. But the package they got back was 3 middling players aged 27-30, none of whom were still on the team two years later. Totally squandered an incredibly valuable asset. McGrady continued as an elite player in Houston for another 3-4 years before injuries curtailed his career.

Basically the story of his one-year tenure as GM is twofold - he completely blew up the team for poor value ... but then drafted Dwight Howard #1 overall.

 

[Hit the post]

The McGrady deal was basically the NBA's version of the Joe Thornton trade, made at almost the same time for the same reasons, for a similar package.

At least one of the players the Ruins got ended up playing 1000+ games in the NHL (not a great player but still a respectable career) - granted I agree it ended up a bad trade for the Ruins.

 

[RandV]

At least one of the players the Ruins got ended up playing 1000+ games in the NHL (not a great player but still a respectable career) - granted I agree it ended up a bad trade for the Ruins.

Yeah Brad Stuart and Marco Sturm were both quality players, problem was they weren't core pieces and were close to being UFA's. Stuart was the biggest piece, an Alex Edler caliber dman, but left via FA after 2 years in Boston.

 

[timw33]

Yeah Brad Stuart and Marco Sturm were both quality players, problem was they weren't core pieces and were close to being UFA's. Stuart was the biggest piece, an Alex Edler caliber dman, but left via FA after 2 years in Boston.

I'm struggling to think of any quantity package (Thornton Trade, Seguin Trade, Kovalchuk trade, Hossa trade (to Pens, the Heatly Hossa swap was a fantastic trade) that worked out better than well established NHL start for blue chip future star prospect or top picks package (Niewendyk for Iginla, Kessel for 2 1sts and a 2nd, etc.)

 

[arttk]

The McGrady deal was basically the NBA's version of the Joe Thornton trade, made at almost the same time for the same reasons, for a similar package.

Orlando had had a terrible year the year before but had the 24 y/o 2x defending scoring champion on their team, and decided he wasn't a guy you 'win with'. So they traded him, which in and of itself might not have been the worst idea - if they had rebuilt and picked up top young talent to put into their lineup alongside #1 overall pick Dwight Howard. But the package they got back was 3 middling players aged 27-30, none of whom were still on the team two years later. Totally squandered an incredibly valuable asset. McGrady continued as an elite player in Houston for another 3-4 years before injuries curtailed his career.

Basically the story of his one-year tenure as GM is twofold - he completely blew up the team for poor value ... but then drafted Dwight Howard #1 overall.

Sounds like the things we are doing here in Vancouver

 

[arttk]

I'm struggling to think of any quantity package (Thornton Trade, Seguin Trade, Kovalchuk trade, Hossa trade (to Pens, the Heatly Hossa swap was a fantastic trade) that worked out better than well established NHL start for blue chip future star prospect or top picks package (Niewendyk for Iginla, Kessel for 2 1sts and a 2nd, etc.)

Probably the Lindros trade. It’s been a long while.

 

[timw33]

Probably the Lindros trade. It’s been a long while.

Key thing there is that they got a just-drafted Peter Forsberg, who ended up PPG his entire career and PPG in 150+ playoff games. Getting $15MM in cash is also nice too....

 

[Melvin]

I'm struggling to think of any quantity package (Thornton Trade, Seguin Trade, Kovalchuk trade, Hossa trade (to Pens, the Heatly Hossa swap was a fantastic trade) that worked out better than well established NHL start for blue chip future star prospect or top picks package (Niewendyk for Iginla, Kessel for 2 1sts and a 2nd, etc.)

It's all about contract status, though. The Thrashers did not trade "Marian Hossa." They traded the last 12 games of his contract; they knew they weren't going to be able to re-sign him and any acquiring team knew keeping him wasn't a guarantee. You can't compare this to something like the KEssel trade where the acquiring team is guaranteed to be getting multiple years of services out of the player.

 

[arttk]

Key thing there is that they got a just-drafted Peter Forsberg, who ended up PPG his entire career and PPG in 150+ playoff games. Getting $15MM in cash is also nice too....

And Ricci and Hextall and a 1st rounder. Quality and quantity

 

[Addison Rae]

The McGrady deal was basically the NBA's version of the Joe Thornton trade, made at almost the same time for the same reasons, for a similar package.

Orlando had had a terrible year the year before but had the 24 y/o 2x defending scoring champion on their team, and decided he wasn't a guy you 'win with'. So they traded him, which in and of itself might not have been the worst idea - if they had rebuilt and picked up top young talent to put into their lineup alongside #1 overall pick Dwight Howard. But the package they got back was 3 middling players aged 27-30, none of whom were still on the team two years later. Totally squandered an incredibly valuable asset. McGrady continued as an elite player in Houston for another 3-4 years before injuries curtailed his career.

Basically the story of his one-year tenure as GM is twofold - he completely blew up the team for poor value ... but then drafted Dwight Howard #1 overall.

Fits in line with Benning's quote about Boston only missing Seguin in the regular season. T-Mac was an absolute star if you breakdown his numbers he was one of the best u-25 scorers ever and his season in 2003 was the best non MJ/LeBron season ever for a wing player. He was right there with Kobe at the time of the trade and was trending towards being a top 3 shooting guard ever. It's not just one of the worst basketball trades in the past 15 years, it's one of the worst trades in North American sports in that time.

If that's the kind of deal you construct in your only year as a GM along with firing Doc Rivers then you deserve the flack you're receiving.

 

[Nuckles]

The past few games they've shown the Canucks management during the game on camera and Benning has been absent. Either he's not at these games or he's hiding from the cameras.

From tonight

(there was another camera shot that showed more earlier in the game, can't find gif/clip)

 

[Wilch]

Also, in case anyone was wondering about Brandon Benning's work history, his Nordstrom security guard experience was publicly available on his LinkedIn page. He has since removed that experience and even his account - probably because it garnered some negative media attention.

So yes, he was a security guard at Nordstrom between his time with the Flames and now, and yes, the only other time he was hired into a scouting role was because of his daddy's connection. Don't get me wrong, not all nepotism hires turn out badly, but had he produced a good body of work under the Flames organization, (1) he wouldn't have been let go when Weisbrod was fired and (2) another NHL organization would've picked him up had Burke fired him out of spite.

 

[Nuckles]

The Provies: The Boeser situation, the Guddy situation and the Benning situation

Benning has left the team and wasn’t at the World Juniors, coping with a family situation back home.

I guess that explains that

 

[F A N]

The McGrady deal was basically the NBA's version of the Joe Thornton trade, made at almost the same time for the same reasons, for a similar package.

Orlando had had a terrible year the year before but had the 24 y/o 2x defending scoring champion on their team, and decided he wasn't a guy you 'win with'. So they traded him, which in and of itself might not have been the worst idea - if they had rebuilt and picked up top young talent to put into their lineup alongside #1 overall pick Dwight Howard. But the package they got back was 3 middling players aged 27-30, none of whom were still on the team two years later. Totally squandered an incredibly valuable asset. McGrady continued as an elite player in Houston for another 3-4 years before injuries curtailed his career.

Basically the story of his one-year tenure as GM is twofold - he completely blew up the team for poor value ... but then drafted Dwight Howard #1 overall.

You forgot to mention that McGrady was essentially a pending UFA (he was opting out of his contract the following summer) and they got rid of Juwan Howard's contract. Not saying it ended up being a good trade, but it's quite different from the circumstances of the Joe Thornton trade. As much as I dislike Steve Francis, he was only two years older than McGrady and hardly a "middling player aged 27-30" and Cuttino Mobley was a good player. McGrady also never made out out of the first round.

I think Thornton's longevity and the Cup finals helped his legacy last year much like Henrik having led the Canucks to a Cup final (previously, Henrik was not thought to be a good captain). At the end of the day, San Jose clearly benefited from the Thornton trade. Houston? Not so much.

 

[Zaddy91]

"Miller is overpaid and keeps us from tanking"

Go cheer for Edmonton.

 

[PG Canuck]

"Miller is overpaid and keeps us from tanking"

Go cheer for Edmonton.

Actually Ryan Johansen is keeping us from tanking. He’s been unreal for us this year.

 

[Melvin]

"Miller is overpaid and keeps us from tanking"

Go cheer for Edmonton.

How was he keeping us from tanking? We finished 29th with him lol. We probably couldn't have finished lower with Felix Potvin in goal.

 

[Zaddy91]

Actually Ryan Johansen is keeping us from tanking. He’s been unreal for us this year.

Glad I was wrong, he wants a cheque.

 

[PG Canuck]

I would expect it has been discussed but...

 

[Nuckles]

I would expect it has been discussed but...

Something something Benning, something something master scout.

 

[Hansen]

Mike Keenan probably got death threads for trading Trevor Linden too but that was a good trade for us.

He still hopes he doesn't run into Gino Odjick in a dark alley

 

[PG Canuck]

Something something Benning, something something master scout.

The cat is coming out of the bag on Benning. Hilarious to see since drafting has been the only thing he’s been credited with.

 

[Melvin]

I mean, we've been talking about this on here for a long time. I am not really sure what the revelation is supposed to be.

 

[Nuckles]

The cat is coming out of the bag on Benning. Hilarious to see since drafting has been the only thing he’s been credited with.

I can't wait to see the comments on r/canucks in the morning