2017-2018 Blues Prospects Thread

[MortiestOfMortys]

Here is a pretty goal by Nolan Stevens. I hope he does sign with the Blues this summer.

Hoo boy that’s nifty. I agree, I’m stoked to see him in San Antonio next season with maybe Poganski too. Get MacEachern, Vannelli, Sergeev, Bleackley, and Selman some reps in too. It’ll be nice to be able to control the lineup a little more. Make sure whoever of the big 4 ends up there are getting the minutes they need. Put Mikkola in the mix too unless he wants to stay abroad, which would be just as well.

 

[The Note in MI]

Hoo boy that’s nifty. I agree, I’m stoked to see him in San Antonio next season with maybe Poganski too. Get MacEachern, Vannelli, Sergeev, Bleackley, and Selman some reps in too. It’ll be nice to be able to control the lineup a little more. Make sure whoever of the big 4 ends up there are getting the minutes they need. Put Mikkola in the mix too unless he wants to stay abroad, which would be just as well.

I’ll just be happy to watch just one team instead of flipping back and forth between CHL and San Antonio/Chicago games. Unless we get a great draft pick this year that I want to watch in the CHL but that seems unlikely.

Didn’t realize how nice it is to watch all the pro prospects in one place.

 

[PiggySmalls]

Hat trick for Nolan Stevens tonight. He has mainly played LW this season because of Gaudette. Can get physical by college standards when needed, maybe be can become a tweener in a couple years.



Now he got a 10 minute game misconduct for stick up for his teammate that got clobbered.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Barzal v. Kyrou comparison 1

I just finished watching a Thunderbirds (Barzal) playoff game against their rivals, the Everett Silvertips. In 2017 they were the only team above Seattle on the standings heading into the playoffs (sound familiar?).

The Silvertips were a much younger and less developed team in comparison to Seattle, and Seattle got away with a lot of chippy play. Multiple holdings, a few high sticks, and more. Barzal had his hands in the air often though, complaining to the refs (as a Seattle player). He himself had some questionable stickwork after the whistle.

Barzal opened up the scoring in the first with a goal driving towards the net from the right circle, cleaning up a rebound. He then assisted on the game winner after Everett cam back in the final two minutes with their goalie pulled to make it 2-2 (Barzal was not defending). Barzal’s assist made it 3-2 as he skated a loop around the o-zone, shielding the puck until he could get off a harmless shot from the right circle. A player was there to cleanup the rebound and score on Everett's goalie, a young Carter Hart.

Barzal’s backward skating is impressive. He is obviously very good at skating box drills, and can protect the puck well. His play away from the puck in the o-zone is decent, but nothing astounding from my first look. He’s not a player that always seems to have the puck on his stick, but when he does he’s good at drawing lots of defenders and opening up the ice for his teammates, while they in turn get away with picks to open up the ice for him.

His shot seems underwhelming, but I’ll have to watch the rest of the series and some more current NYI games to get a better look. Thus far, I think Kyrou has better everything except maybe the ability to shield the puck, and skate backwards well. Kyrou’s shot, vision, play without the puck in all zones, checking, and overall skating seem superior.

Both are captains (Barzal co-captain), both draw the best defenders, and both have very similar numbers in juniors. Barzal was definitely on the better team (I believe they go on to win the Memorial Cup), and Kyrou seems to me the better playmaker overall. Barzal likes to carry the puck around the perimeter towards the blue line, while Kyrou is far more willing to work from behind the net and push towards the goal (although that's not all he does).

Kyrou does a lot of his scoring from the LW, as does Barzal. Barzal played C for Seattle, but both tend to gravitate to their off-wing in order to be effective offensively. Kyrou, unlike Barzal, will play both left and right sides in the offensive zone, doing a lot of zone entry in the right and working the boards. Barzal plays almost exclusively on the left after faceoff.

I’ll update again after I finish the series, watch some NYI, and watch a bunch more Sarnia games, but that’s my initial take.

Edit: Barzal may or may not have better hands. He made a really sick play to toe drag around a diving defender and shoot on net. Kyrou hasn't done anything like that in close that I have seen, but has done other impressive things in tight. Barzal is definitely the more physical player along the boards, and he uses his body well to shield the puck and wedge other players out of board battles.

Here's an analysis of Barzal by a person who watched him a lot. This was posted on here right after the draft (2015, playoffs above were 2 years later). It should sound familiar:

Spoiler: Barzal Draft Analysis

Player Analysis: Mathew Barzal is a game-breaking playmaker for the Seattle Thunderbirds…has no issue beating the opposition in a number of different ways offensively…features well above-average acceleration and top-end speed…possesses dynamic edge work which allows him to change direction quickly and go east-west at the drop of a hat…carries the puck with speed, poise and confidence…will take advantage of soft gaps if a defence gives it to him but will beat you wide if you try to play him too tight…would categorize him as an elusive player who subsequently doesn’t take a lot of physical contact…is tough to handle on the cycle due to his high-end stickhandling ability and slippery nature…protects the puck well when in tight areas and along the wall but could definitely use a few more notches of strength to his upper body…will be even tougher to slow down once he adds more weight and power to his lower body as well…can make plays at top speed but also has the ability to slow the game down…makes the players around him better with absolutely elite-level passing ability and vision…

I’ve said his vision may be second to only Connor McDavid in this draft… can make adept plays both on the forehand and backhand including the ability to elevate pucks and land them in tight spots, adding a unique element to just how hard he is to stop in the playmaking game…has extremely good hands and the ability to stick-handle in tight spaces…as I’ve alluded to, he’s definitely a playmaker more than a scorer…despite being more of a passer he still possesses a hard shot with a snappy release…would be a guy that needs to shoot the puck more as he tends to try and make that extra pass from time to time instead of wiring it…when he does shoot, he’s dangerous and if he can put more pucks on net I wouldn’t doubt he has 30 goal potential at the NHL level during his peak years…wouldn’t list hockey sense as any form of a concern especially on the offensive side of the puck…a smart player positionally and is comfortable being the number one guy for a WHL franchise…plays with a good motor and doesn’t take many shifts off…seems to be somewhat inconsistent in his desire to always go to tough areas and to drive hard lanes consistently but it’s a small complaint and I don’t see it holding him back much going forward…

I wouldn’t call him a physical player and he doesn’t have a ton of feistiness to his game…like most players his age he must continue to work on his defensive game, although he has a strong set of instincts away from the puck…his noted motor also transfers fairly well to the defensive side of the puck, as do his stick skills…is a bit of a puck thief…has been used in penalty killing situations as a member of the Thunderbirds and should maintain that ability as he climbs the pro hockey ladder…has been the Thunderbirds number one centre for the past two seasons and obviously the key pillar on their powerplay…his most common linemate in the second part of the season in 2014-15 was Roberts Lipsbergs as they played 22 of Seattle’s final 27 regular season games together…he also spent plenty of time with Ryan Gropp on his left side…he missed over two and a half months of action during the middle of the year with a broken kneecap after injuring it while wrestling with a teammate…offensive numbers weren’t jaw-dropping before his injury but ended up posting very good numbers down the stretch for Seattle…he led all first-year draft-eligible WHL forwards in points-per-game (1.29) and even-strength points-per game (0.77)…he either scored or assisted on 42.54% of all Seattle Thunderbird regular season goals, the highest mark of any first-year draft-eligible WHL forward relative to their own team…he finished 3rd among first-year draft-eligible WHL forwards in primary assists with 26 while finishing 7th in total points despite missing a big chunk of the year with injury…followed up a good second part of the season with a monster showing at the World Under-18 Championships where he was widely considered Canada’s best forward…was my top ranked player from the WHL from the very start of the season until now, despite his rather slow offensive start and his injury issue…

Credit to @R S

Another fun thing from Twitter right after the draft:

Spoiler: Kyrou v. Barzal WJC Highlights

I'll try to find some time to put together some game highlights and analysis of both Kyrou and Barzal when I get the chance (no promises).

 

[The Note in MI]

That’s my biggest knock on Kyrou is he has no physicality and that is why I think he struggles in the D zone. He doesn’t seem to have that mentality that he can out do you with his speed and subsequent tenacity that makes up for his average to smaller size. I think he is capable of being that persistent checker that uses his foot and stick work to strip pucks but he’s going to have to engage bigger guys.

He also is terrible at shielding the puck. He could use a few lessons there.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

It’s not that he isn’t physical - he just isn’t as physical as Barzal. Both are more physical when the games really matter, but Barzal is moreso - perhaps even rat-like. Kyrou struggles with shielding the puck, but doesn’t struggle with stickhandling to accomplish the same goal. Kyrou needs to get better at leveraging his body to protect the puck and box out defenders, but I don’t see that being the difference between him being an NHLer or not.

 

[tfriede2]

Blais with the lone goal for SA last night, and he had an assist on the lone goal the game before. All he does is score in the AHL. He has had some trouble adjusting the the NHL, but IMO, he hasn't been in long enough to fully adjust. Some appear to rank him in our second or third tier of prospects, perhaps because of his age (he'll be 22 next season) or because the AHL success hasn't translated to the NHL yet; of course, there are legitimate concerns as well, including perimeter play, average skating, and the lack of a superior skill. But his trajectory has been remarkable - I think there's a decent chance that he can carve out a top 6 role on this team within the next two years. I could see the potential when he was up with the Blues, as well as the concerns noted above.

 

[Dbrownss]

Ive been going through predraft Kyrou reports, and they are all over the place with describing his play. I've seen him described as a good 2 way player with question marks of him not having a higher offensive gear. Now we see reports of him having elite offensive skills and question marks of his 2 way ability.

Love scouting

 

[The Note in MI]

Kyrou with four assists in first period vs Oshawa.

 

[Mike Liut]

Kyrou with four assists in first period vs Oshawa.

He sucks. Trade him

 

[Mike Liut]

Blais with the lone goal for SA last night, and he had an assist on the lone goal the game before. All he does is score in the AHL. He has had some trouble adjusting the the NHL, but IMO, he hasn't been in long enough to fully adjust. Some appear to rank him in our second or third tier of prospects, perhaps because of his age (he'll be 22 next season) or because the AHL success hasn't translated to the NHL yet; of course, there are legitimate concerns as well, including perimeter play, average skating, and the lack of a superior skill. But his trajectory has been remarkable - I think there's a decent chance that he can carve out a top 6 role on this team within the next two years. I could see the potential when he was up with the Blues, as well as the concerns noted above.

Top 6 is going to be tough with Tarasenko, Schwartz, Fabbri, Thompson, Thomas, Kyrou, Kostin, schenn, Stastny (or replacement).

 

[EastonBlues22]

Ive been going through predraft Kyrou reports, and they are all over the place with describing his play. I've seen him described as a good 2 way player with question marks of him not having a higher offensive gear. Now we see reports of him having elite offensive skills and question marks of his 2 way ability.

Love scouting

One of the things about a scouting report is that it all depends on what the person happens to see in the game(s) that s/he watches.

Like many talented prospects, there are a number of ways that Kyrou could improve his game, but there aren't any issues that seem overly crippling to me. It would certainly help if he learned to use his body better, for example, but it's not necessarily critical to his career since he has the skating and quickness to (potentially) do things like win pucks, penetrate the middle of the offensive zone, and add value defensively that way instead.

If he shores up one or more of he weaknesses, he could be a well-rounded impact player. If he doesn't, he could still be a flawed impact player, or just a useful complimentary one. If he takes it all for granted and never learns/progresses, he might end up being someone who ends up being an NHL liability that is too talented for the AHL. It will come down to his desire, work ethic, and ability to learn and adapt his game...just like with most everyone who isn't a generational talent.

Personally, I'm optimistic.

 

[David Dennison]

Blais with the lone goal for SA last night, and he had an assist on the lone goal the game before. All he does is score in the AHL. He has had some trouble adjusting the the NHL, but IMO, he hasn't been in long enough to fully adjust. Some appear to rank him in our second or third tier of prospects, perhaps because of his age (he'll be 22 next season) or because the AHL success hasn't translated to the NHL yet; of course, there are legitimate concerns as well, including perimeter play, average skating, and the lack of a superior skill. But his trajectory has been remarkable - I think there's a decent chance that he can carve out a top 6 role on this team within the next two years. I could see the potential when he was up with the Blues, as well as the concerns noted above.

I disagree, I think he is facing stiff competition for ice time in STL. Schwartz, Steen, Tara and Sobie are there. Fabbri and Tage are probably ahead of him on the depth chart, and Barbashev and Sanford are pretty close in age/success to this point.

I am intrigued by him, but I also wouldn't hesitate to move him for a vet at the deadline. Blues don't have a 1st, so they will probably be moving prospects in a trade.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Count me as incredibly optimistic. If Kyrou learns to use his body more like Barzal, I see a similar projection. Watching Kyrou is reminiscent of watching Parayko and initially being sceptical, but then seeing the real deal for myself.

Same thing happened with Dunn.

That said, I’m not holding my breath for him to do more with his body. I’ll sit with what I see him currently doing as his projection, and not try to over-estimate what he could do if a, b, and c. He’s definitely an NHLer either way, and a fit for this team.

 

[Mike Liut]

I disagree, I think he is facing stiff competition for ice time in STL. Schwartz, Steen, Tara and Sobie are there. Fabbri and Tage are probably ahead of him on the depth chart, and Barbashev and Sanford are pretty close in age/success to this point.

I am intrigued by him, but I also wouldn't hesitate to move him for a vet at the deadline. Blues don't have a 1st, so they will probably be moving prospects in a trade.

I think theres a time coming soon when the Blues roll 4 true scoring lines. You could see a Blais-Sanford - Berglund 4th line

 

[tfriede2]

I disagree, I think he is facing stiff competition for ice time in STL. Schwartz, Steen, Tara and Sobie are there. Fabbri and Tage are probably ahead of him on the depth chart, and Barbashev and Sanford are pretty close in age/success to this point.

I am intrigued by him, but I also wouldn't hesitate to move him for a vet at the deadline. Blues don't have a 1st, so they will probably be moving prospects in a trade.

I don't see Sobotka as a top 6 player, and I don't think Steen will be that kind of player in two years. Fabbri is a huge question mark right now, and Blais has proven (only because he is in the AHL and our other prospects are not old enough yet) much more than 3 of our "big 4" prospects. In short, I think Blais has as much, or an even better chance of being a top 6 player than many of our prospects (including 2 of our "big 4"). Of course, opinions will vary.

 

[Dbrownss]

Guess who's leading the OHL again....even after missing games for the WJC. I'll give you a hint, it's not Morgan Frost

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Cam Neely and all of the Bruins’ scouting department were at the Oshawa-Sarnia game. He was likely there scouting up-coming draftees in Noel, Gross, and McShane, and checking out their goalie prospect, Keyser (pulled before end of 1st), and forward prospect, Studnicka playing for Oshawa.

Spoiler: 1st Period

1st Period:
Kyrou had mainly (good) secondary assists this period, and racked up 4 points. The first was a shot on net from the slot that found its way for a rebound that was eventually put in off a cross-ice pass. Kyrou drove to the center on the powerplay from the left wall, and opened up lots of options. The second assist was a good play from behind the net where Kyrou drew a defender, beat him with a reversal, and then flung the puck to the top circle for a waiting defenseman, followed by a tip-in by newly-acquired Pezzetta (TOR). The third was a backhand cross-ice sauce that beat two defenders to find the open man. The fourth was a quick turn along the boards on LW, dish to the defenseman, and then followed by a tip (Pezzetta again).

Kyrou also had a good backcheck to catch Noel (big powerforward eligivle for this draft) that led to a Sarnia odd-man rush after Kyrou picked his pocket. On a later shift he had a great forecheck to strip the puck away from Noel along the boards and generate some offense. For those of you worrying about how Kyrou will fair against bigger dudes, look no further than this. Kyrou’s defensive game is solid, and could only be better if he was just more aggressive (attached more fiercely and more often). He is often more worried about being in a great position to cut passing lanes, instead of just taking the puck (which he can do at will). It’s not really a flaw as much as a need for him to understand that he has the speed to make-up for mistakes when playing aggressive defensively, and should do so more often.

Oh, and that’s all just in the first.

Spoiler: 2nd Period

2nd Period:
The second was less eventful for Kyrou, although he could have easily had another two points. Cale Ceci (Oshawa’s backup) made a great save after Kyrou received the puck from the boards, drove the net, made Ceci bite, and then had great vision to pass to the pinching defenseman. Save of the night. Kyrou then made another excellent pass to dish it to the slot, but after the shooter beat the goalie, a defenseman caught the puck at the goal line. Could have been Kyrou’s 6th.

Kyrou might be a little to blame when two Sarnia players lost a battle behind their net (really the puck just went over a stick), and the centering pass found Antropov. Kyrou was nearest the slot, but because of the quick change wasn’t able to re-route himself in time.

Kyrou had a few other nifty plays (he seems to have one or two every shift), but most notably took a penalty when he bobbled the puck after receiving a pass at the line in the OZ. Noel checked him as he raced to catch the puck entering the NZ (Noel has good legs), and Noel grabbed Kyrou and pulled him down. Kyrou protected the puck well, and the two got off-setting minors. Both were called for holding, but Kyrou was innocent. The period ended with Oshawa coming back to make it 5-4. Lots of penalties, but the best PK in the league stopped them all.

Spoiler: 3rd Period

3rd Period:
Kyrou had a few good plays here as well. One was a big hit along the boards to Noel. Kyrou also managed to get the GWG with a snipe from the left-side slot to go glove side and beat Ceci. Kyrou did most of the work on the play to get to the slot on the 4v3 powerplay brought about by a big hit into the glass by Egert on DiCarlo, and then a offensive zone slash on the breakaway by, I believe , Antropov. Kyrou score in the following shift.

Kyrou was also notably out on the ice to defend the empty-net 6-on-5 in the final two minutes of the game. Kyrou had a few key takeaways during the third, but he didn’t get to finish defending the final two minutes because Ruzicka retaliated during a board battle in the neutral zone and cross-checked Antropov with 10 seconds remaining. The PK held, and went 8/8 on the night. The powerplay went 3/3.

Great game tonight for Kyrou, notching 5 points in a 6-5 victory over a very tough Oshawa team. Kyrou was instrumental in all areas of the ice, and got to show off a lot of sauce during the game, as well as making a few big cuts to the center with good stickwork and beautiful skating.

Kyrou consistently makes the right play. He’s not threading the needle on every shift, but he is a takeaway machine that always sees the correct move and executes. He’s surprisingly not as flashy as someone with his PPG, but he obviously has the tools. He doesn’t force many plays, and has good game sense not to just throw the puck on net when it’s certain that it will be caught and blown down. His shot is still a little underwhelming, but that is the beginning and end of what he needs to work on in the OZ. His defensive play is solid, if not good.

If Kyrou can continue to build on what he already has, while improving his shot and use of his body, we are looking at a top line winger. If he doesn’t improve at all, he could be in that grey-area of being too good for the AHL and not good enough for the NHL top-6, but I would bet that even if he doesn’t improve, he will still more than likely be a good 2RW.

I should take this time to mention that since acquiring Pezzetta at the TDL, Kyrou has been effectively playing LW once he enters the OZ; he only starts on RW on the draw. I’m not sure if this is a common thing or not, but I assume it has to do with his handedness (offensive players should be on their off-wings, IMO). Having him start on the RW while shifting to the left side gives him the best look at the net and the other half of the ice for feeds in the OZ, and allows him to still use his strong-side when in the DZ.

Kyrou also takes a good amount of right circle draws as a center, while Ruzicka takes the left draws. Kyrou seems to be decent to good at taking the draw from what I’ve seen, but I don’t know the official stats on that.

As an update to the Barzal-Kyrou saga: I have watched the first two games in the Seattle-Everett series, two NYI games, and now 5 Sarnia games while specifically looking for a conparison and taking notes. The short: for the love of god, DO NOT trade Kyrou. I’ll be doing a similar analysis of Thomas later.

 

[tfriede2]

Kyrou and Thomas are, respectively, #1 and #2 in the OHL in points per game now. Frost, the player taken by Philadelphia with the pick we traded in the Schenn deal, is #3.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Kyrou and Thomas are, respectively, #1 and #2 in the OHL in points per game now. Frost, the player taken by Philadelphia with the pick we traded in the Schenn deal, is #3.

OHL playoffs are going to be good. Hamilton is so talented and big. Sarnia is a bit of an underdog. SSM will be a tough out due to their talent and goalie. Hopefully we get a Hamilton v. Sarnia final with a Sarnia v. SSM Western Conference Final.

 

[The Note in MI]

Only thing that would keep me from rooting for that would be having Kyrou and Thomas either in STL for the playoffs or in San Antonio to get some pro experience.

 

[Dbrownss]

So prospect experts, what constitutes a Blue chip prospect? Im going to ask a few scouts on twitter too. For the life of me, i can't understand it. Well outside of it being a buzzword to add or take away value for a prospect. I can see draft position playing an initial role but once draft+ is factored in, it shouldn't hold much bearings. There are guys who easily would go much higher in a draft as their 2nd season.

Yes this is related to Thomas/Kyrou.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

So prospect experts, what constitutes a Blue chip prospect? Im going to ask a few scouts on twitter too. For the life of me, i can't understand it. Well outside of it being a buzzword to add or take away value for a prospect. I can see draft position playing an initial role but once draft+ is factored in, it shouldn't hold much bearings. There are guys who easily would go much higher in a draft as their 2nd season.

Yes this is related to Thomas/Kyrou.

Blue chip, for me, means that there is a pretty reasonable expectation that they will end up as a top-line player, or if they bust, they will still be able to contribute in some fashion. They’re a shoe-in. Draft position matters only insofar as the top 10 of any draft class manages to distinguish themselves from the rest of their peers earlier on. Jesper Bratt for example: is he blue chip? Idk, probably not. But he’s playing in the NHL well before any of his blue-chip peers... idk, it’s complicated

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Thomas is bluechip. He plays like an NHLer, and it’s obvious when you watch him. Kyrou isn’t bluechip for me, but is still one of the top prospects in the league.

 

[Dbrownss]

Thomas is bluechip. He plays like an NHLer, and it’s obvious when you watch him. Kyrou isn’t bluechip for me, but is still one of the top prospects in the league.

What would you say the the difference is? Kyrou controlled the game better at the WJC then Thomas did. I use that as an example because same team, same ice, same competition.