2017-2018 Blues Discussion Thread Part Three

[Blueston]

I don’t get that impression from Gunnarsson he isn’t a lifestyle kinda guy. He also lays his body on the line.

Sobotka I could definitely see.

I question Edmundson but the guy leading the team in blocked shots seems like someone putting in the effort to me.

Jeff Jones also suggested Upshall, pointing out how well he played last year and couldn't get a contract until we were desperate.

 

[The Note in MI]

Jeff Jones also suggested Upshall, pointing out how well he played last year and couldn't get a contract until we were desperate.

I saw that but man is he a lunch pail type player

 

[Blueston]

I saw that but man is he a lunch pail type player

Dunno. He seems high energy, but he also takes lots of dumb penalties which shows laziness. Was high draft pick who has never lived up to that. Everyone seems to like him, but he has sure moved around a lot.

 

[Veneficus]

I don't know where else to put this, but I'm visiting my sister in NYC. We're at the flyers and rangers game, and Jori scored!!! They took it away and gave it to someone else though. I thought I saw his first goal of the year for like 10 minutes.

 

[Alklha]

JR just ranting like an angry fan. His "reporting" seems like trying too hard to give "perspective" now that he has more freedom to write stuff.

"October-April I see the same group making the same mistakes and excuses."... blah blah blah. Generic statement so that it doesn't need backed up.

The biggest issue with this team right now is a lack of talent. We have issues with roster construction and coaching. Injuries have forced players up the lineup, we're forced to play players out of position and we aren't getting any help from these issues from our PP.

There is no point in getting angry that Sobotka and Berglund aren't top-6 players; that's not their role. There is no point in being angry that Pietrangelo and Steen aren't screaming abuse to get reactions; that's never been their style.

Armstrong knew all of that when he extended them, and he knew all of that when he let the likes of Backes walk. It's interesting that with all these opinions that JR has that he is missing the most logical target.

I don't know where else to put this, but I'm visiting my sister in NYC. We're at the flyers and rangers game, and Jori scored!!! They took it away and gave it to someone else though. I thought I saw his first goal of the year for like 10 minutes.

The Rangers really are going all in on their tank if they are letting Jori be an impact player.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

I’m hopeful DA is looking at 2018-2019 and 2019-2020 as his next window to get this team to the SCF.

I was thinking about how much can change from one season to the next and looked at last year’s playoff teams and where are they now. Also thinking about teams that missed it, but are destroying people this year.

Atlantic Division

1. Montreal Canadiens, Atlantic Division champions – 103 points
2. Ottawa Senators – 98 points
3. Boston Bruins – 95 points (42 ROWs)

Metropolitan Division

1. Washington Capitals, Metropolitan Division champions, Eastern Conference regular season champions, Presidents' Trophy winners – 118 points
2. Pittsburgh Penguins – 111 points
3. Columbus Blue Jackets – 108 points

Wild Cards

1. New York Rangers – 102 points
2. Toronto Maple Leafs – 95 points (39 ROWs)

Western Conference

Central Division

1. Chicago Blackhawks, Central Division champions, Western Conference regular season champions – 109 points
2. Minnesota Wild – 106 points
3. St. Louis Blues – 99 points

Pacific Division

1. Anaheim Ducks, Pacific Division champions – 105 points
2. Edmonton Oilers – 103 points
3. San Jose Sharks – 99 points

Wild Cards

1. Calgary Flames – 94 points (41 ROWs)
2. Nashville Predators – 94 points (39 ROWs)

Missing in 2016-2017 and on fire now: TBL, Jets, VGK (didn’t exist and everybody thought they would suck)

Made it in 2016-2017 and are disasters now: Rangers, Canadiens, Senators, Blackhawks, Oilers

Made it in 2016-2017 and are borderline now: Blues, Wild Blue Jackets, Leafs


Edit: Oilers from borderline to disaster.

 

[HighNote]

Oilers are not borderline, they're lower than the Blackhawks. 19 points out.

 

[Reality Czech]

Interesting post Ajax. I had a similar thought recently, when making a post about the parity in the NHL right now. Most teams cannot take the playoffs for granted any more, especially in the West. "Experts" and analysts do their best to predict the best teams each pre-season and that is really hard to do these days. I was curious about it, so I looked up the NHL.com preseason predictions to see how they look now.

Stanley Cup predictions for 2017-18
https://www.nhl.com/news/2017-18-stanley-cup-expert-picks-predictions/c-291463038
Just to summarize a few things I noticed...in the Atlantic most predicted TB and Toronto would be good but many also thought Montreal would be a top 3 team in their division. Seems that fewer experts predicted Boston would go to the playoffs compared to Ottawa.

Most of them had the Pens winning their division and underrated the Caps. Most experts thought the Rangers and Blue Jackets would go to the playoffs while almost no one had the Flyers or Devils going.

In the Central division it seems most experts thought Nashville, Dallas and Chicago would make it.
Every single expert has the Hawks going to the playoffs and many had the Wild too. Few picked the Jets to be top 3 in the division. Actually the Blues are one of the few teams the experts might have guessed right for the most part. Most of them had us finishing 3rd place or getting a wild card, and only a couple thought we would win the division.

Regarding the Pacific, obviously none of them picked Vegas to go to the playoffs. The Oilers, Sharks and Ducks were the popular picks there, with about half picking the Flames to go to the playoffs.

The Pens and Lightning were the two most popular Cup winner picks, but two chose Dallas and one each for Nashville, Edmonton, Toronto and Ducks.

I know it's just a handful or experts on one site, but thought it was interesting how far off some of the predictions were.

 

[Captain Creampuff]

Never have been a fan of JR. I even said last year he's not that great of a reporter. I remember the day before we traded Miller, he wrote a long post on twitter about how the Blues will definitely not be acquiring him.

 

[Xerloris]

It's interesting that with all these opinions that JR has that he is missing the most logical target.

Who would that be?

 

[AjaxManifesto]

Oilers are not borderline, they're lower than the Blackhawks. 19 points out.

Thanks. Updated the post.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

Interesting post Ajax. I had a similar thought recently, when making a post about the parity in the NHL right now. Most teams cannot take the playoffs for granted any more, especially in the West. "Experts" and analysts do their best to predict the best teams each pre-season and that is really hard to do these days. I was curious about it, so I looked up the NHL.com preseason predictions to see how they look now.

Stanley Cup predictions for 2017-18
Just to summarize a few things I noticed...in the Atlantic most predicted TB and Toronto would be good but many also thought Montreal would be a top 3 team in their division. Seems that fewer experts predicted Boston would go to the playoffs compared to Ottawa.

Most of them had the Pens winning their division and underrated the Caps. Most experts thought the Rangers and Blue Jackets would go to the playoffs while almost no one had the Flyers or Devils going.

In the Central division it seems most experts thought Nashville, Dallas and Chicago would make it.
Every single expert has the Hawks going to the playoffs and many had the Wild too. Few picked the Jets to be top 3 in the division. Actually the Blues are one of the few teams the experts might have guessed right for the most part. Most of them had us finishing 3rd place or getting a wild card, and only a couple thought we would win the division.

Regarding the Pacific, obviously none of them picked Vegas to go to the playoffs. The Oilers, Sharks and Ducks were the popular picks there, with about half picking the Flames to go to the playoffs.

The Pens and Lightning were the two most popular Cup winner picks, but two chose Dallas and one each for Nashville, Edmonton, Toronto and Ducks.

I know it's just a handful or experts on one site, but thought it was interesting how far off some of the predictions were.

It’s interesting how fast some of these teams went from dominance last regular season to bottom of the barrel in the next.

 

[Alklha]

Who would that be?

From the narrative that JR creates, then you have to blame Armstrong.

JR implies we have the same issues year-after-year, but he pins that on the players. If he wants to say that there has been an on-going issue for years, surely he should be asking why Armstrong hasn't dealt with it?

He often talks about lack of leadership/accountability/toughness/whatever. Armstrong knew what Pietrangelo and Steen were like as leaders, and he let other guys go. We haven't brought in anyone more vocal. If he wants to paint this as a big problem, then it's a problem Armstrong walked into with his eyes open.

He doesn't name the players who are only playing for the "paycheck or the lifestyle", but it's interesting that we all immediately thought he was talking about Berglund. Who signed these guys? If Berglund is one of them, who gave him 5 year, $19.25m contract?

I still think that JR is talking out of his ass. It's just interesting that he chooses to create talking points that logically go back to Armstrong, but he doesn't take it there. Always the players.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

From the narrative that JR creates, then you have to blame Armstrong.

JR implies we have the same issues year-after-year, but he pins that on the players. If he wants to say that there has been an on-going issue for years, surely he should be asking why Armstrong hasn't dealt with it?

He often talks about lack of leadership/accountability/toughness/whatever. Armstrong knew what Pietrangelo and Steen were like as leaders, and he let other guys go. We haven't brought in anyone more vocal. If he wants to paint this as a big problem, then it's a problem Armstrong walked into with his eyes open.

He doesn't name the players who are only playing for the "paycheck or the lifestyle", but it's interesting that we all immediately thought he was talking about Berglund. Who signed these guys? If Berglund is one of them, who gave him 5 year, $19.25m contract?

I still think that JR is talking out of his ass. It's just interesting that he chooses to create talking points that logically go back to Armstrong, but he doesn't take it there. Always the players.

This was my point Alklha. I said this on a different forum (Blues News Forum). I don't understand the calling out of Tarasenko by name but not naming the players who did or who resent him. If you're going to start naming players, I think you have to do it all, you can just pick and choose. That to me shows a lack of professionalism and a hint at favoritism.

This whole character debate with this team...if it truly spans years, which is believe based on what was said and happened after loss to Yeo's Wild team, is on Armstrong. Armstrong is a loyal guy, and while that's good it's also very bad in today's NHL. You have to know your vision for the team and while I think he wants to transition to a speed/skill game, I think he's overvaluing some of the player's he's kept. Sobotka, Berglund, Steen (doesn't fit that style of game), and others were more of a Hitch style player. He's made some mistakes and so this is on him to fix.

 

[TruBlu]

This was my point Alklha. I said this on a different forum (Blues News Forum). I don't understand the calling out of Tarasenko by name but not naming the players who did or who resent him. If you're going to start naming players, I think you have to do it all, you can just pick and choose. That to me shows a lack of professionalism and a hint at favoritism.

This whole character debate with this team...if it truly spans years, which is believe based on what was said and happened after loss to Yeo's Wild team, is on Armstrong. Armstrong is a loyal guy, and while that's good it's also very bad in today's NHL. You have to know your vision for the team and while I think he wants to transition to a speed/skill game, I think he's overvaluing some of the player's he's kept. Sobotka, Berglund, Steen (doesn't fit that style of game), and others were more of a Hitch style player. He's made some mistakes and so this is on him to fix.

No GM is perfect. Every team in the league has bad contracts. DA has publicly stated his vision for the team and every move he has made has been to further that cause. Berglund was a long acquisition, but he's a great third line center. If you look at his cost/production, that's a good contract. He's being judged by people thinking that he's going to drop off, but there is a degrading NTC in effect. He can get rid of him if he needs to. Sobotka isn't the same player he was when he was here before, but he can be traded to any team needing a third line center/winger. I don't get the hate with Steen. He's been pushed into just about every line and position all season long. His numbers have dropped, but he's still going to be a 50 point player. Our problem as fans is that we only think season to season. We are not a cup contending team this year. We will be next year if we stay the course.

 

[Spektre]

This was my point Alklha. I said this on a different forum (Blues News Forum). I don't understand the calling out of Tarasenko by name but not naming the players who did or who resent him. If you're going to start naming players, I think you have to do it all, you can just pick and choose. That to me shows a lack of professionalism and a hint at favoritism.

This whole character debate with this team...if it truly spans years, which is believe based on what was said and happened after loss to Yeo's Wild team, is on Armstrong. Armstrong is a loyal guy, and while that's good it's also very bad in today's NHL. You have to know your vision for the team and while I think he wants to transition to a speed/skill game, I think he's overvaluing some of the player's he's kept. Sobotka, Berglund, Steen (doesn't fit that style of game), and others were more of a Hitch style player. He's made some mistakes and so this is on him to fix.

Maybe Tarasenko kicked JR's dog? JR's been calling out Tarasenko for quite a while now. I like JR as a person but question his motives. He's human and in the business of getting his writing read by as many people as possible. Maybe he calls out Tarasenko to be controversial. Who knows?

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

No GM is perfect. Every team in the league has bad contracts. DA has publicly stated his vision for the team and every move he has made has been to further that cause. Berglund was a long acquisition, but he's a great third line center. If you look at his cost/production, that's a good contract. He's being judged by people thinking that he's going to drop off, but there is a degrading NTC in effect. He can get rid of him if he needs to. Sobotka isn't the same player he was when he was here before, but he can be traded to any team needing a third line center/winger. I don't get the hate with Steen. He's been pushed into just about every line and position all season long. His numbers have dropped, but he's still going to be a 50 point player. Our problem as fans is that we only think season to season. We are not a cup contending team this year. We will be next year if we stay the course.

Bold 1: Berglund is being paid (not cap hit) 4 million dollars right now. His current production and streaky scoring isn't warranting that and he truthfully is a declining asset. The degrading NTC is the only true OUT for Armstrong and is why that wasn't an awful contract. It was a bad one simply because of the term. Berglund is a good 3C. But he needs to be on a team who doesn't need consistent depth scoring to help mask his streaky scoring.

Bold 2: Steen is a good player. I've never said he was a bad one. However, if you look at his actual salary, not cap hit, he's not worth 7 million a year he's being paid right now. He's already a declining asset, he's not going to be worth the cap his soon either. If he does make 50 points this season, it'll be by the skin of his teeth. Steen's numbers are kind of trumped up by some EN goals as well. If he wasn't recently put on a line with Tarasenko, I doubt he actually makes it to 50. Plus, his defense has definitely declined as well.

Bold 3: What leads you to believe they will be Cup contenders next season? I'm genuinely curious. I don't think fans only think season to season. I think many look at prospects. Look at who have longer term contracts. I think many fans look at the outlook of this team over the next several seasons.

For me, I'm not looking at this from the microcosm of this year alone. I thought after the WCF run that Armstrong should have made sweeping changes then. He didn't and I disagreed with that move, but here we sit. I also like the long-term projection for this team with guys like Thomas, Kyrou, Kostin, Walman, and Thompson if they get a change to prove themselves and play. I think there are some movable contracts and players Armstrong could move to secure a better long term future for this team. I hope he makes the right moves this off-season by moving out much of the "dead weight" in our veteran contracts and clears up much needed cap space. I'd like to be contenders for more than a few years and if Armstrong can play this off-season and trade deadline right, he could make this team contenders for 5+ years.

I didn't bold Sobotka because I definitely agree with you there. He's very movable.

 

[TruBlu]

Bold 1: Berglund is being paid (not cap hit) 4 million dollars right now. His current production and streaky scoring isn't warranting that and he truthfully is a declining asset. The degrading NTC is the only true OUT for Armstrong and is why that wasn't an awful contract. It was a bad one simply because of the term. Berglund is a good 3C. But he needs to be on a team who doesn't need consistent depth scoring to help mask his streaky scoring.

Bold 2: Steen is a good player. I've never said he was a bad one. However, if you look at his actual salary, not cap hit, he's not worth 7 million a year he's being paid right now. He's already a declining asset, he's not going to be worth the cap his soon either. If he does make 50 points this season, it'll be by the skin of his teeth. Steen's numbers are kind of trumped up by some EN goals as well. If he wasn't recently put on a line with Tarasenko, I doubt he actually makes it to 50. Plus, his defense has definitely declined as well.

Bold 3: What leads you to believe they will be Cup contenders next season? I'm genuinely curious. I don't think fans only think season to season. I think many look at prospects. Look at who have longer term contracts. I think many fans look at the outlook of this team over the next several seasons.

For me, I'm not looking at this from the microcosm of this year alone. I thought after the WCF run that Armstrong should have made sweeping changes then. He didn't and I disagreed with that move, but here we sit. I also like the long-term projection for this team with guys like Thomas, Kyrou, Kostin, Walman, and Thompson if they get a change to prove themselves and play. I think there are some movable contracts and players Armstrong could move to secure a better long term future for this team. I hope he makes the right moves this off-season by moving out much of the "dead weight" in our veteran contracts and clears up much needed cap space. I'd like to be contenders for more than a few years and if Armstrong can play this off-season and trade deadline right, he could make this team contenders for 5+ years.

I didn't bold Sobotka because I definitely agree with you there. He's very movable.

Berglund got injured. No one could have known that would happen. The bolded changes from year to year. As far as Steen goes, he's been the most moved player all year. Regardless of that, he's still going to end up around 50 points. Who was going to replace Steen's production? Removing a guy from the cap structure doesn't automatically replace him. The second bolded; I think we will be cup contenders because I think we have a good chance of making the playoffs. I don't feel so strongly about that this year. The roster is flawed.

 

[HolyJumpin]

Schwartz-Schenn-Tarasenko
Steen-Stastny-Thompson
Barbashev-Sobotka-Sosh
Sanford-Sunny-Brodziak

This team just looks better without Berglund. Blues need to clean house on their older players up front. Stastny might be decent but I don't hate the Blues without him. Here's my next season roster thinking about just dumping Sobotka, Stastny, and Berglund.

Schwartz-Schenn-Kyrou
Fabbri-Thomas-Tarasenko
Steen-Barbashev-Thompson
Sanford-Sundquist-Soshnikov

Even if you add one of the three, this is a deep line up. I didn't even add Kostin to the lineup.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

Berglund got injured. No one could have known that would happen. The bolded changes from year to year. As far as Steen goes, he's been the most moved player all year. Regardless of that, he's still going to end up around 50 points. Who was going to replace Steen's production? Removing a guy from the cap structure doesn't automatically replace him. The second bolded; I think we will be cup contenders because I think we have a good chance of making the playoffs. I don't feel so strongly about that this year. The roster is flawed.

Berglund has had two different shoulder injuries that people have blamed for his lack of production. He's been this streaky kind of player his WHOLE career.

Steen's been moved around? What's your point with that? So he played out of position, he would have scored more he he hadn't been? I agreed with you that he's a good player, but I was pointing to his salary and cap hit. I don't care how much he's been moved around, he's not producing what he should for what he's making. If he was at 4 million, I wouldn't complain at all. If you gave one of the young guys Steen's spot for the full year, including training camp, you never know what might have happened. You could also have more cap space to go out and get a player to help you in the long term. Steen is a good hockey player, he's not 5.75 million cap hit good.

 

[TruBlu]

Berglund has had two different shoulder injuries that people have blamed for his lack of production. He's been this streaky kind of player his WHOLE career.

Steen's been moved around? What's your point with that? So he played out of position, he would have scored more he he hadn't been? I agreed with you that he's a good player, but I was pointing to his salary and cap hit. I don't care how much he's been moved around, he's not producing what he should for what he's making. If he was at 4 million, I wouldn't complain at all. If you gave one of the young guys Steen's spot for the full year, including training camp, you never know what might have happened. You could also have more cap space to go out and get a player to help you in the long term. Steen is a good hockey player, he's not 5.75 million cap hit good.

First bolded: What 50 point player is going to agree to 4 million? No UFA is going to agree to that; that is predicated on the fact that his production isn't what you want it to be. We have several contracts on board that no one complains about where they don't get anywhere near that production. Second bolded: You just made my point.

 

[Reality Czech]

From the narrative that JR creates, then you have to blame Armstrong.

JR implies we have the same issues year-after-year, but he pins that on the players. If he wants to say that there has been an on-going issue for years, surely he should be asking why Armstrong hasn't dealt with it?

He often talks about lack of leadership/accountability/toughness/whatever. Armstrong knew what Pietrangelo and Steen were like as leaders, and he let other guys go. We haven't brought in anyone more vocal. If he wants to paint this as a big problem, then it's a problem Armstrong walked into with his eyes open.

He doesn't name the players who are only playing for the "paycheck or the lifestyle", but it's interesting that we all immediately thought he was talking about Berglund. Who signed these guys? If Berglund is one of them, who gave him 5 year, $19.25m contract?

I still think that JR is talking out of his ass. It's just interesting that he chooses to create talking points that logically go back to Armstrong, but he doesn't take it there. Always the players.

I don't read the Athletic, but from your post it seems like JR is trying to write what he thinks the audience wants to hear, or at least whatever will provoke the most discussion afterwards. Something to get the fans riled up without really saying anything specific.

Although looking at Berglund's new hairdo, I can see why some might think he's all about the lifestyle.

I noticed an article on ESPN the other day where they ranked the GMs around the league. They also provided links to two other rankings done by other sources with different methodologies. On the ESPN ranking, Armstrong was in the 2nd highest tier (GMs with good pedigree but yet to win the big one). There were only 3 GMs put ahead of him in the top tier. On the Hockey News poll he was ranked 9/31, and Hockey Graphs 11/31.

Weekly Reader: Ranking all 31 NHL GMs into tiers

Front office confidence rankings, Part 2: Fans weigh in on how each team is doing | The Hockey News
http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/a...art-2-fans-weigh-in-on-how-each-team-is-doing
The 2017 NHL GM Report Card – Part 2

I'm sure some people would disagree with those rankings but I think it confirms what many of us would have said. He's above average, but still needs to show something to be considered better than that. His team consistently make the playoffs his few bad contracts aren't as painful as those on other teams. And he doesn't have many elite players or top ten picks to work with, unlike other top GMs. Poile, Rutherford and Yzerman were seen as the best, but they have a lot more toys to play with compared to Army. I'd say he has done pretty good considering STL is a tough sell for most top free agents and he hasn't had the benefit of many high picks/superstar level players. That being said, ya still gotta prove it Army. The jury is still out.

 

[Shwabeal]

Steen is a good hockey player, he's not 5.75 million cap hit good.

Steen isn't far off being worth $5.75 million right now. He's maybe overpaid by 250k-400k this year. His value relative to his cap hit is obviously going to go down but his contract isn't awful. He took him awhile to get back to full speed after his injury and his defensive game has still been solid. Not as great as we have come to expect but still better than most. Ideally, on this team, he plays on the 3rd line with some of the younger guys next year, mainly thinking Thomas. Infusing some of the younger talent over the course of his contract will help absorb some of his cap hit and I think he'll be useful as a mentor for some of the prospects.

For reference, here is a list of players that have a cap hit of $5 million or higher and lower than $6.25 million that play primarily wing. Anyone with an * received that deal as a UFA and anyone in bold is someone who I would pick for their cap hit over Steen and his $5.75 million:

Tomas Tatar $5.3 million
Frans Nielsen $5.25*
Patrick Marleau $6.25*
Brandon Saad $6 (Debated this one but age was tiebreaker)
Mikael Granlund $5.75
Nino Niederreiter $5.25
TJ Oshie $5.75
Loui Eriksson $6*
David Backes $6*
Alexander Radulov $6.25* (Another debatable one but went with the goal scoring)
Andrew Ladd $5.5*
Mike Hoffman $5.187
Ondrej Palat $5.3
Valterri Filpulla $5*
Dustin Brown $5.875
Brandon Dubinsky $5.85 (He's a center but saw that cap hit and figured I'd include him)
Nick Foligno $5.5 (Signed December before he would have been a UFA)
Joe Pavelski $6
Jason Pominville $5.6
Blake Wheeler $5.6 (This contract is a steal)
Jonathan Huberdeau $5.9
Jonathan Drouin $5.5
Taylor Hall $6 (another steal of a contract)
Milan Lucic $6*
James Neal $5
Reilly Smith $5
Gabriel Landeskog $5.571
Jeff Skinner $5.725

There's a lot of good contracts/players in there. Steen falls in the middle of the pack I'd say so his contract isn't the end of the world as long as we have young talent on ELCs filling up one or two of the spots on his line.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

I feel like this JR article has done exactly what it was meant to do - resonate with the majority of the fanbase that thinks Berglund is useless, Tarasenko is lazy, Petro is a bad captain, team's too soft, JBo is awful, and Allen is likely to be traded.

This isn't good analysis, and, in typical JR fashion, is a bunch of unfounded speculation built on an old school mentality that hasn't won anything since at least Boston's last Stanley Cup, and even then it's debatable. I agree with Alklha that he completely fails to come to the most obvious conclusion his "evidence" points to: blaming Armstrong. JR doesn't have the balls to do this, and he isn't smart enough to draw that conclusion anyway.

The talk about trading Allen, Stastny, and the rest just seems silly to me. It's not likely to happen, which is fine to talk about, I guess, but to me it seems like another example of the "mentally tough" crowd failing at the thing the accuse the team of doing. I'll try not to comment again on it, but I felt like I had to this one last time just to point out how stupid this all is; it's a tier above facebook quality discussion.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

First bolded: What 50 point player is going to agree to 4 million? No UFA is going to agree to that; that is predicated on the fact that his production isn't what you want it to be. We have several contracts on board that no one complains about where they don't get anywhere near that production. Second bolded: You just made my point.

Steen could be at a 4 million dollar cap hit, plus I specified he isn't worth 7 million (actual salary currently). Just like is already structured, you could have paid less in the final years. Do you really believe he'll stay at 50 points over the course of his contract? Honestly...you really believe he will? How much is his production is already predicated on other players? When he's been with Stastny, his CF% goes shooting up by 7%, his FF% goes up by 9%. Stastny's numbers actually go down with Steen. My point to what I'm arguing is he's not worth the CONTRACT. After this year, it's 3 more years at nearly 6 million dollars per cap hit and I doubt he's nearly as productive. His defense has already started to suffer the last few years. It's not so much what I want his production to be, but analysts, writers, several other hockey minds have said he needed to step up his game. Stastny is right now a big reason for Steen's uptick in offensive production.

I didn't really make a point for you at all.

Who was going to replace Steen's production? Removing a guy from the cap structure doesn't automatically replace him.

So, you said removing him from the cap structure doesn't replace him. I'm saying you don't know if they would have or not. You stated they wouldn't. You're on the team that fears the unknown, and that's fine. I'm on the team that prefers to try the unknown at this point because the known isn't working.

I think Steen is a good player. I just think he should have been moved on from when Backes was gone. I didn't, don't, and will never like that contract.