2017-2018 Blues Discussion Thread Part Three

[CaliforniaBlues310]

I’d only be okay with getting Maroon if we also brought in Hoffman, and got rid of Sobotka+Berglund in the process.

I think this is a much better forward group

Schwartz-Schenn-Hoffman
Steen-Barbashev-Tarasenko
Maroon-Stastny-Thompson
Upshall-Brodziak-Soshnikov

 

[Alklha]

If we're talking about acquisitions, then it's with a view to next season.

We absolutely have a talent issue. Schwartz, Schenn and Tarasenko are our only top-6 players that are signed going into next season. We'll extend or replace Stastny, so it's really 4. Fabbri is a question mark, we can't count on him producing like a top-6 guy.

Steen, Berglund and Sobotka are third liners. Calling Steen a third liner is harsh, but ideally that is where he needs to be in the line up.

Schwartz - Schenn - __?__
Fabbri - __?__ - Tarasenko
Steen - __?__ - __?__
Jaškin - __?__ - Soshnikov

Something like that should be the framework of the roster going into next season.

Then, we have too many prospects who will be pushing for NHL time; Thomas, Kyrou, Thompson, Kostin, Sanford, Barbashev, Blais and we can probably include Stevens on that list. Some of those guys, like Kostin, are going to be a little further away, but it's still a glut of players that we don't have the space for. There isn't a rush to move anyone, but we do need to consolidate assets for upgrades.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

Then, we have too many prospects who will be pushing for NHL time; Thomas, Kyrou, Thompson, Kostin, Sanford, Barbashev, Blais and we can probably include Stevens on that list. Some of those guys, like Kostin, are going to be a little further away, but it's still a glut of players that we don't have the space for. There isn't a rush to move anyone, but we do need to consolidate assets for upgrades.

There’s no such thing as “too many prospects.” It’s ok - you could argue it’s better - for guys to spend 2-3 full seasons in the A before giving them the big call.

 

[Alklha]

There’s no such thing as “too many prospects.” It’s ok - you could argue it’s better - for guys to spend 2-3 full seasons in the A before giving them the big call.

As I said, there isn't any immediate rush to move anyone, but when you have so many guys going for a couple of spots, you have to be careful of their development.

Players have different development paths. For some it is beneficial for them to be in the AHL for 2-3 seasons, for others you are doing absolutely nothing for their development in doing that. In the same way that sending Thomas back to the OHL next year won't be ideal for his development.

There isn't such a thing as too many prospects, but you ideally want them spaced out a little more. The older players get without having shown anything in the NHL then the worse their trade value becomes. We've seen that with Schmaltz. Zach Sanford is going to be 24 this year. Barbashev will have KHL options at the end of his ELC, do we see him as an NHL player or an AHL player next season?

The point is that we ultimately don't have roster space for all these guys. We need to decide who we want to bet on and who we view as currency when it comes to upgrading the roster.

 

[MissouriMook]

I know this isn't really Army's MO, but at this point can we be both buyers and sellers? If you can get a 1st round pick for either Berglund (in a deal where he waives his NTC) or Sobotka, take it! Then use that 1st rounder and a non-big 4 prospect like Schmaltz or Walman to go out and get a guy like Hoffman.

The biggest hurdle we have to bringing in a guy like that is we don't have a 2018 1st rounder to offer. At the same time, we have guys that are both redundant and ineffective in their role in this lineup that another team may value enough to buy them, especially given that they have relatively low cap hits and term. Put those two things together dammit and make some effective change. Worst case scenario is that the second deal doesn't materialize and you go into the playoff push without Berglund or Sobotka, but you walk into the draft with a 1st rounder you don't have right now. Oh the horror!

 

[TruBlu]

I know this isn't really Army's MO, but at this point can we be both buyers and sellers? If you can get a 1st round pick for either Berglund (in a deal where he waives his NTC) or Sobotka, take it! Then use that 1st rounder and a non-big 4 prospect like Schmaltz or Walman to go out and get a guy like Hoffman.

The biggest hurdle we have to bringing in a guy like that is we don't have a 2018 1st rounder to offer. At the same time, we have guys that are both redundant and ineffective in their role in this lineup that another team may value enough to buy them, especially given that they have relatively low cap hits and term. Put those two things together dammit and make some effective change. Worst case scenario is that the second deal doesn't materialize and you go into the playoff push without Berglund or Sobotka, but you walk into the draft with a 1st rounder you don't have right now. Oh the horror!

If we can flip either of those guys for a 1st, I'd rather keep it for the draft. None of the big names mentioned truly fill a position of need for us, it's just a way to bring in a top 6 player. The team will look much different after the season is over. Fabbri will be back next year and many of these same guys will be available for much cheaper. I think we just need to swallow the medicine and hold pat. I can see big acquisitions in the offseason if we have the maturity to stand pat.

 

[Celtic Note]

I know this isn't really Army's MO, but at this point can we be both buyers and sellers? If you can get a 1st round pick for either Berglund (in a deal where he waives his NTC) or Sobotka, take it! Then use that 1st rounder and a non-big 4 prospect like Schmaltz or Walman to go out and get a guy like Hoffman.

The biggest hurdle we have to bringing in a guy like that is we don't have a 2018 1st rounder to offer. At the same time, we have guys that are both redundant and ineffective in their role in this lineup that another team may value enough to buy them, especially given that they have relatively low cap hits and term. Put those two things together dammit and make some effective change. Worst case scenario is that the second deal doesn't materialize and you go into the playoff push without Berglund or Sobotka, but you walk into the draft with a 1st rounder you don't have right now. Oh the horror!

I have been wanting Army to take that approach for years. In full acknowledgement, he did do that with Shattenkirk and Schenn.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Our head of scouting is once again at a Sens game.

 

[MissouriMook]

I have been wanting Army to take that approach for years. In full acknowledgement, he did do that with Shattenkirk and Schenn.

Technically, yes, but he has never (to my knowledge) traded player(s) for futures and flipped those futures for player(s) within a matter of hours/days/a couple of weeks ahead of the TDL. The Shatty ---> Schenn flip was almost 4 months apart. What I'm talking about is acknowledging that you lack the currency (1st round pick) to address your needs, so you trade a roster player (or players) for that currency and immediately spend it to address those needs.

 

[Celtic Note]

Technically, yes, but he has never (to my knowledge) traded player(s) for futures and flipped those futures for player(s) within a matter of hours/days/a couple of weeks ahead of the TDL. The Shatty ---> Schenn flip was almost 4 months apart. What I'm talking about is acknowledging that you lack the currency (1st round pick) to address your needs, so you trade a roster player (or players) for that currency and immediately spend it to address those needs.

I don’t disagree, just saying that he has to some degree. I still contend that he should of been making those types of plays years ago.

The biggest challenge I see with doing both quickly is that you now need two other teams to be in the correct positions in order to execute. Theoretically that should be available at the deadline, but there are no guarantees.

 

[Blanick]

Damn Jr's mailbag this week was pretty interesting. He brought up issues with the culture in the locker room saying it needs to change. He took a couple of specific Blues out to woodshed. He also openly admitted that the Blues are shopping Berglund and Sobotka.

If you have a Athletic subscription definitely worth a read.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

Damn Jr's mailbag this week was pretty interesting. He brought up issues with the culture in the locker room saying it needs to change. He took a couple of specific Blues out to woodshed. He also openly admitted that the Blues are shopping Berglund and Sobotka.

If you have a Athletic subscription definitely worth a read.

Was coming here to post just this. JR did not hold back.

 

[Blanick]

Was coming here to post just this. JR did not hold back.

Best part was him calling out players who are just their for the paycheck or lifestyle. He wouldn't name names on that one but said they know who the are?

 

[Xerloris]

Can you guys post some quotes from it?

 

[Blanick]

Can you guys post some quotes from it?

Maybe when I get home. Hard to quote while on the phone.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

JR’s hot takes are so dumb. All of it comes off, if he doesn’t outright say it, as his opinion. His opinions are generally awful, IMHO.

Here’s a good one: it will likely take one of Berglund or Sobotka, a prospect (maybe but hopefully not Thomas), and possibly Fabbri to get that deal done. Who cares that it has been reported that DA turned down Fabbri+ for Hoffman, this is JR’s brilliant mind at work.

He keeps talking about how players have an issue with Tarasenko, and other players just collect paychecks, and no one wants to take a wack to the leg to score a goal. How Jaskin and others coming to the team have felt like loners, and that he’s tired of hearing about players brushing off losses and then move on to the next game. He wants them to get “mad in the moment”.

No wonder he laments the loss of Backes so much. This all sounds like we need moar tuffness cause old time hockey, and who cares about Armstrong not wanting a rental so let’s get Maroon. When he sticks to just telling the news, he’s great, because I guess he has something the rest of us don’t: access. Unfortunately, he’s too dumb to remember what he’s heard already, and develops these ridiculous hot-takes. All we hear about is how the locker room is great from Yeo, DA, and the players. All we hear is how Fabbri+ was turned down by DA. All we hear is hat DA isn’t interested in rentals. All we hear about is other teams pushing for Maroon and not the Blues. All we hear is that Schenn and Stastny have shown up and become leaders. JR’s opinions all fly in the face of this, and if I thought there was any evidence to show that JR was this voice of truth for the Blues, or even a guy that can understand some X’s and O’s (he could NEVER write stuff like that Kyrou article), then maybe I’d put some stock in what he says. For now, if he doesn’t put quotes around it and denote that Armstrong said it, I’m fairly certain it’s his, awful, opinion.

There’s my hot take. Quotes to follow for the people.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

And my answer is “no,” it would not wake up them any more than losing in the second round woke them up last season. Would they be disappointed? Certainly. Would they tell media and fans that it's unacceptable? More times than you want to hear. But would they do any more self-examination than they did any other year or talk more amongst themselves about why they're so inconsistent? No and no. Some of you might be asking why nothing would change. I'm not saying nothing would change. I'm just saying I don't believe the Blues missing the playoffs by three points is going to put a more determined, ticked off team on the ice next season. Call me fatigued on the end-of-the-season post-mortem interviews. Every May, I see a despondent group of players and every October-April I see the same group making the same mistakes and excuses.

...

This is the part of my answer where I'll try to keep it as real as possible. I think some players resent that Vladimir Tarasenko doesn't work as hard as he should. I think some players who think that about Tarasenko aren't working as hard as they should be. I don't think the leaders are doing a good enough job of taking the different personalities in the locker room and making everybody feel like one. Is Dmitrij Jaskin a bit of a loner? Yeah. Have the Blues tried to make him feel like them? Maybe more than I know. But has it been enough? No. Not just with Jaskin, but others, too, whether it's been this year or in the past. That translates on the ice. Guys are just playing hockey, many of them not playing FOR EACH OTHER. And I haven't even mentioned the guys who are just playing for the paycheck or the lifestyle, which in this case I'm not going to name names, but they know who they are.


...


On trading Sobotka and/or Berglund:

I think the Blues would be better off. I think the cap space can be better used and it gives them the ability to play their prospects like Tage Thompson, Robert Thomas, Kyrou and Klim Kostin. They probably won't all play here at the same time, but if one or two of them are ready, I would rather see the ice time go to them.

...


On getting Hoffman:

I think if you can get him without giving up Thomas, you do it. Ideally you'd give up Berglund or Sobotka, along with a prospect, and perhaps Fabbri.

...

And that’s all I’ll post to preserve the paywall.

Unless he means next year, Klim isn’t ready, and Kyrou and Thomas aren’t being blocked by anyone at this point. Also, what are you using the cap space for this year? He has to be talking about next year, right? Then why does he mention this when referring to THIS TDL?

Berglund or Sobotka, a prospect (hopefully not Thomas), and perhaps Fabbri. For Hoffman. Does he not read anything other than his own articles? Who cares that Berglund has a NTC, Fabbri just signed a hat deal exclusively wth the Blues, and that Armstrong already turned down a lesser deal in his favor around Fabbri.

His opinions have increased as he now works for The Athletic. He isn’t good enough to work for that publication compared to the quality work that is put out by others. Outsiders to the Blues have better analysis as to what is going on.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

Best part was him calling out players who are just their for the paycheck or lifestyle. He wouldn't name names on that one but said they know who the are?

Nothing but speculation on my part but first name I thought of was Patrick Berglund

 

[PiggySmalls]

Damn Jr's mailbag this week was pretty interesting. He brought up issues with the culture in the locker room saying it needs to change. He took a couple of specific Blues out to woodshed. He also openly admitted that the Blues are shopping Berglund and Sobotka.

If you have a Athletic subscription definitely worth a read.

I was not expecting that at all. Definitely a first time I have seen him address the locker room issues in that way. It is crazy how losing certain veteran players over the years have really thrown a wrench in the social structure of the team.

I’m glad that he talked about the real issues in the locker room. The lack of accountability within the player ranks is next to nothing. Kimble talks about how guys would call out Hull for laxing up on the ice and Hull would respond. I don’t see that with this roster.

 

[The Note in MI]

Nothing but speculation on my part but first name I thought of was Patrick Berglund

You and I both. You know that’s referring to those not on a sub 1m dollar contract. Who else could that be? I know berglund for a fact. But can’t place any of the others.

 

[Blueston]

You and I both. You know that’s referring to those not on a sub 1m dollar contract. Who else could that be? I know berglund for a fact. But can’t place any of the others.

Sobotka too. Maybe Gunnar?

 

[The Note in MI]

Sobotka too. Maybe Gunnar?

I don’t get that impression from Gunnarsson he isn’t a lifestyle kinda guy. He also lays his body on the line.

Sobotka I could definitely see.

I question Edmundson but the guy leading the team in blocked shots seems like someone putting in the effort to me.

 

[Blueston]

I don’t get that impression from Gunnarsson he isn’t a lifestyle kinda guy. He also lays his body on the line.

Sobotka I could definitely see.

I question Edmundson but the guy leading the team in blocked shots seems like someone putting in the effort to me.

Gunnar was just a guess based on salary and number of times scratched. But you are probably right on him. I think he's actually played fairly well this year.

 

[PiggySmalls]

I bet it pains Ott to see this happen but has to approach it now as a coach instead of a player. It’s no mystery that he was considered one of the better vocal leaders on every team he has played for.

I do agree with other folks guesses, I have no doubt that their commitment on the ice correlates with their attitude attitude in the locker room. Hence one of the reasons Berglund might have gotten moved to Schwartz and Schenn’s line. They are the 2 hardest working players we got up front and it is obvious when someone is on their line and you stand out because they are out working you.

 

[Note Worthy]

Some interesting quotes from JR's latest chat for those that don't have The Athletic

EDIT: Never mind, I was beat to it. Lol.