2017-2018 Blues Discussion Thread Part Three

[Vladys Gumption]

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[TheDizee]

way too many ppl freaking out over nonsense.

"oh the lines look poor"
"oh allen was awful this preseason"

on and on it goes. the season starts TOMORROW. None of that matters and tomorrow we get to start the season off. Complain after that game, no reason to do so now. We have atleast 82 games to moan and complain about so why bother doing it before the puck has even dropped. If this team showed you anything last season down the stretch is that we can play with a "subpar" top 9 and still beat the crap out of teams.

 

[bleedblue1223]

The lines will sort themselves out in time. The injuries throw it off, and some of the slow-starters will eventually get more time, and some of the others will come back to earth a bit and get less time. The lines at the start of the season are never what they are even just a quarter of the way into the season, and they typically do represent performances in games and practice of camp.

I also don't get why people are upset about Sobotka being on the top line. Tarasenko produces whoever is with him, and with the injuries that we have, we need to spread out some of the consistent scorers to provide multiple scoring lines. Sobotka is enough quality to keep up with that line and produce, even if it isn't Schwartz level production. We need Schwartz with Schenn more than Schwartz with Stastny/Tarasenko.

 

[Brian39]

way too many ppl freaking out over nonsense.

"oh the lines look poor"
"oh allen was awful this preseason"

on and on it goes. the season starts TOMORROW. None of that matters and tomorrow we get to start the season off. Complain after that game, no reason to do so now. We have atleast 82 games to moan and complain about so why bother doing it before the puck has even dropped. If this team showed you anything last season down the stretch is that we can play with a "subpar" top 9 and still beat the crap out of teams.

Dizee, this doesn't happen often but I completely agree with every word you said.

I have zero concerns about Allen based on preseason play. He may be a guy who is just slow out of the gate or maybe there is a switch he can flip (everyone I spoke with said he looked great in KC). Either way, he is a guy who is going to have highs and lows. I have little doubt that all in all, he will be a slightly below average to above average starter this year.

I don't love the lines posted yesterday, but I also have no doubt that they will be shuffled by next week. Yeo isn't the line juggler that Hitch is, but any NHL coach with this many injuries is going to have to play line boggle to find chemistry and maximize production.

There are a lot of reasons to be frustrated after this preseason, but at this point I'm incredibly excited for tomorrow. I'm sure there will be plenty to complain about in a week or so, but for now I'm all aboard for a clean slate and a new year of NHL hockey.

 

[JoshFromMO]

I recall Soby playing a lot with a younger Tarasenko. I don't see anything wrong with it. Still infinitely better than playing with Lehtera. More like Lehturtle amirite?

 

[bleedblue1223]

I recall Soby playing a lot with a younger Tarasenko. I don't see anything wrong with it. Still infinitely better than playing with Lehtera. More like Lehturtle amirite?

Yep, in the playoffs it was Schwartz-Sobotka-Tarasenko and it was the best and only real quality line when we lost to Chicago with Miller.

 

[Lord Helix]

And when one of our actual top 6 players goes down?

 

[JoshFromMO]

Yep, in the playoffs it was Schwartz-Sobotka-Tarasenko and it was the best and only real quality line when we lost to Chicago with Miller.

I thought they spent a good amount of time together during regular season before Tarasenko injured his hand too. I still don't think it's a bad idea to have a C like Sobotka who can play with some grit and have more tools than the drop pass.

 

[bleedblue1223]

And when one of our actual top 6 players goes down?

Steen's injury is not long-term, and we should wait to see what sort of production guys like Thompson and Barbashev will bring ~20 games into the season.

We've already lost 2 top 6 guys and Berglund without even playing a game. If we lose more top 6 guys, then it just might become a lost season, and there's not much that can be done about it. You can't blame that on Army not getting something done because there's not realistically that could save it. Now, if we don't have additional injuries, then it's best to just ride out the storm and reassess when you can.

 

[TheDizee]

And when one of our actual top 6 players goes down?

no point in playing what ifs. you start that game and you will be here forever.

aslong as tarasenko , pietrangelo and allen perform this team will win games.

 

[Zamadoo]

If feel like over the past several years the Blues have fared well against the Pens with David Backes and a heavy group led by Hitch's puck control system. That's one reason I don't mind the lines too much. Yeo mentioned that Jaskin is a big strong guy who needs to flourish in the puck possession game, and it seems he's kind of taking Berglund or Steen's role on the 2nd line, which might help free Schwartz up. Sobotka on the top line is extra speed/defense/puck control/grit to help make up for Tarasenko being less than stellar without the puck and along the boards. I imagine Steen slots in there when he returns, and Sobotka and Jaskin slide down a line (unless Jaskin proves worthy). The defensemen will have to step up their game and score some goals for us.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I thought they spent a good amount of time together during regular season before Tarasenko injured his hand too. I still don't think it's a bad idea to have a C like Sobotka who can play with some grit and have more tools than the drop pass.

Completely agree. I don't think people realize the benefits of having a guy that will handle the dirty work, so Tarasenko can focus on finding the soft areas. You don't need 3 supremely skilled guys, you need 3 guys performing their roles, and some of those roles require some gritty work that Sobotka excels at.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

At this point, I'm kind of on board with trying to get someone to help the top 6, even if that involved selling some of the farm for Tavares (wouldn't happen). I don't think anyone knows if Fabbri will ever be able to play again. You honestly don't know what you're going to get from Steen either. I am 100% on board that the Blues need time to assess where they are at and see if Thompson, maybe Kostin after his injury, and Megan can help the forwards. However, I don't think you can wait too long or you're going to be in trouble. If any more injuries creep up, this may become a lost season as some have said, but if it is that lost season, I hope the Blues fall within the bottom 10 of the league so they don't have to give up that 1st.

 

[TheBluePenguin]

At this point, I'm kind of on board with trying to get someone to help the top 6, even if that involved selling some of the farm for Tavares (wouldn't happen). I don't think anyone knows if Fabbri will ever be able to play again. You honestly don't know what you're going to get from Steen either. I am 100% on board that the Blues need time to assess where they are at and see if Thompson, maybe Kostin after his injury, and Megan can help the forwards. However, I don't think you can wait too long or you're going to be in trouble. If any more injuries creep up, this may become a lost season as some have said, but if it is that lost season, I hope the Blues fall within the bottom 10 of the league so they don't have to give up that 1st.

lol this is the Blues we are talking about, if we miss the playoffs we all know for a fact that our pick will be 11th

 

[Majorityof1]

I recall Soby playing a lot with a younger Tarasenko. I don't see anything wrong with it. Still infinitely better than playing with Lehtera. More like Lehturtle amirite?

For me, my issue is that Tarasenko is the only shot on that line. Its more Stastny with tarasenko I don't like, and Sobotka only exacerbates that by being more of the same. When it was Schwartz, Sobotka and Tarasenko, Schwartz was a 2nd shot on the line. Sobotka's shot is weak, and Stastny doesn't exactly have a great shot. You are putting 2 playmakers who won't draw coverage with a guy who by and large mostly creates his own shot, as well as open shots for others by pulling coverage. Neither player can really capitalize on those opportunities, and Tarasenko doesn't really need them to get good shots off.

The proof is that Stastny and Tarasenko have terrible chemistry together. Tarasenko's GF60 #s drop precipitously when paired with Stastny. Stastny is the only player in the world whose GF60 #s drop with Tarasenko. For whatever reason, they have never produced well together, despite being put together several times. Now, you are taking Schwartz out, and putting Sobotka on, who is a lesser Stastny offensively. Then on the 2nd line, you are asking Jaskin to play a very particular game, namely, go to the net and create havoc, but you are pairing him with someone who is at his best when doing the exact same. Schwartz doesn't shoot the puck enough or break down coverage with his skating well enough to generate enough shots for both of them to clean up rebounds. So in short, our lines are a bit redundant.

Using the existing top 6 in the practice lines, I'd much rather run:

Sobotka - Schenn - Tarasenko - Gives another trigger man to draw coverage away from Tarasenko and a big body to create screens/clean up rebounds
Schwartz - Stastny - Jaskin - Stastny had chemistry with Jaskin in Jaskin's only productive season. Let's hope we can find that again. Schwartz is there to provide a shot.

When Steen comes back, sub him for Sobotka and swap places with Schwartz.

way too many ppl freaking out over nonsense.

"oh the lines look poor"
"oh allen was awful this preseason"

on and on it goes. the season starts TOMORROW. None of that matters and tomorrow we get to start the season off. Complain after that game, no reason to do so now. We have atleast 82 games to moan and complain about so why bother doing it before the puck has even dropped. If this team showed you anything last season down the stretch is that we can play with a "subpar" top 9 and still beat the crap out of teams.

Its the pre-season. We come here to play amateur coaches/GMs. What else are we going to discuss? Should we focus on the more important issues like color of the lettering on the jerseys? I mean that will obviously have more of an effect on how our season goes than how well our players played 3 days before opening night....obviously.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Its the pre-season. We come here to play amateur coaches/GMs. What else are we going to discuss? Should we focus on the more important issues like color of the lettering on the jerseys? I mean that will obviously have more of an effect on how our season goes than how well our players played 3 days before opening night....obviously.

You can have discussions and also not freak out about things that don't mean that much and that haven't happened yet.

 

[The Note]

Schwartz-Stastny-Vlad
Steen-Schenn/???-Schenn/???

When healthy that’s roughly how I’d expect the top 6 shaking out with some flip flopping. The team needs another top 6 forward, even when healthy. Until Steen gets back the third line is gonna be atrocious. Really I’m just looking for Petro and Vlad to play out of their minds and put the team on their collective back.

 

[TK 421]

Steen's injury is not long-term, and we should wait to see what sort of production guys like Thompson and Barbashev will bring ~20 games into the season.

We've already lost 2 top 6 guys and Berglund without even playing a game. If we lose more top 6 guys, then it just might become a lost season, and there's not much that can be done about it. You can't blame that on Army not getting something done because there's not realistically that could save it. Now, if we don't have additional injuries, then it's best to just ride out the storm and reassess when you can.

Completely agree with you. The injuries are unfortunate but Steen and Bouwmeester won't be out long. To me the most important thing is continuing to manage our cap well by not trying to go outside the organization to replace Fabbri. The best thing is to just ride these injuries out and assess what we have on the current roster while seeing how our prospects fare in the AHL. It's possible someone like Blais, Walman, Kostin etc could bolster us later in the season. If not then Armstrong can attempt a trade later for help, plenty of time to see what we have over the 1st 20-30 games and go from there.

 

[Majorityof1]

You can have discussions and also not freak out about things that don't mean that much and that haven't happened yet.

There is?!?!?! No way!!!!! You are a liar!!!!! ....and, just kidding. Seriously though, there is NOT a way to criticize this team or a player without someone thinking you are freaking out. Some of the freaking out was exaggeration for effect/humor. Some was bred out of frustration given the terrible luck this off-season with injuries. Some was just confusion. For me, I "freaked out" a little because I was so confused by the roster given what I saw/heard/expected. And some was just calm critique that is being cast as freaking out because it is a critique and we can't critique the experts in Yeo/Armstrong/Allen/enforcers/Upshall. But its BS if you can't go to a Blues board and share any of the above reactions without someone getting offended.

 

[Oberyn]

If we're going to keep Thompson up I would like to see him in the top six. His best asset is his shot, and I have more faith in guys like Schwartz/Stastny getting him the puck rather than Paajarvi/Sundqvist. I don't really see the point of a Paajarvi-Sundqvist-Thompson 3rd line.

 

[bleedblue1223]

There is?!?!?! No way!!!!! You are a liar!!!!! ....and, just kidding. Seriously though, there is NOT a way to criticize this team or a player without someone thinking you are freaking out. Some of the freaking out was exaggeration for effect/humor. Some was bred out of frustration given the terrible luck this off-season with injuries. Some was just confusion. For me, I "freaked out" a little because I was so confused by the roster given what I saw/heard/expected. And some was just calm critique that is being cast as freaking out because it is a critique and we can't critique the experts in Yeo/Armstrong/Allen/enforcers/Upshall. But its BS if you can't go to a Blues board and share any of the above reactions without someone getting offended.

No one is saying that you can't, just that it's silly to get all worked up about it.

 

[TheBluePenguin]

If we're going to keep Thompson up I would like to see him in the top six. His best asset is his shot, and I have more faith in guys like Schwartz/Stastny getting him the puck rather than Paajarvi/Sundqvist. I don't really see the point of a Paajarvi-Sundqvist-Thompson 3rd line.

I agree I like the 3rd line as a shut down defensive line, I would rather see Tage on the top 2 also

 

[bleedblue1223]

If we're going to keep Thompson up I would like to see him in the top six. His best asset is his shot, and I have more faith in guys like Schwartz/Stastny getting him the puck rather than Paajarvi/Sundqvist. I don't really see the point of a Paajarvi-Sundqvist-Thompson 3rd line.

I think they want to ease him in and give him PP minutes for his shot/size. If he performs well, he'll get a bigger role, if he doesn't he'll stay or get a lesser role. Yeo liked the way that trio played.

 

[Bye Felicia]

I think the biggest wildcard for this year is Allen. There's such a wide range of possible outcomes for him, and where he falls on the range of being a bottom 10 vs. top 10 starter could really make or break this team.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

No one is saying that you can't, just that it's silly to get all worked up about it.

This is a line of thinking I've always found ironic.

I mean, the whole point of being a fan of a team is to have an emotional connection to that team. Saying it's silly to get worked up about things that don't mean that much just doesn't make sense in this context. What happens to a hockey team shouldn't really matter in anyone's daily life to begin with. You, specifically, have a tagline that reads "Fire Army" under your username, which makes the statement that much more ironic.

In the end, seeing comments like this just makes it seem like people are taking a moral high-road for absolutely no reason.