2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs Season Discussion - 49-26-7 105 pts

[ErnieLeafs]

There's a lot in here to unpack but basically my position is that we aren't good enough on the blue line to win more than a round of the playoffs. Because we are well coached and the east is potentially serving up an equal or lesser team in the 1st round we can make it to the 2nd round. I respect Daisy's argument about experienced gained in the playoffs but I'm not sold on it being more important than gaining draft depth and relying on our players waiting(Kapanen) past the TTD and playoffs.

Can JVR net a 1st round pick at TTD? Yes a late pick. Depth has to be continuously drafted. Can JVR net us an effective longer term player(d-man) at the TTD - unlikely. So after the season is over what has more value to the team and fanbase:

making the playoffs and winning a round?

or

getting another 1st rnd pick to keep back-filling our depth with the potential that losing JVR with a month jeopardizes making the playoffs and going very far in them? I don't think we're going far in the playoffs regardless because of the defence issues but that's just me.

Just rambling thoughts on my part.

Given that the team lost a razor thin series in 6 last year, the playoffs, and then winning a round is far more important than a pick more likely to bust than not. It's a no-brainer. We want these kids to learn and progress every year. One step closer to the ultimate goal, no?

If these kids win a round, who knows what happens? We have a tonn of depth in the minors up front, amd we have Dermott ready next year, and Liljegren probably the year after. We still have two 2nd round picks this year, and our 1st.

 

[Bullseye]

Given that the team lost a razor thin series in 6 last year, the playoffs, and then winning a round is far more important than a pick more likely to bust than not. It's a no-brainer. We want these kids to learn and progress every year. One step closer to the ultimate goal, no?

If these kids win a round, who knows what happens? We have a tonn of depth in the minors up front, amd we have Dermott ready next year, and Liljegren probably the year after. We still have two 2nd round picks this year, and our 1st.

I get that argument and it has it's merits for sure but realistically do you think our defence core wins a couple rounds? Is Hainsey going to continue to play like he has? I hope so but he's being used way more than ever before in his career. I just don't know. I like building and building and building until you can't help but dominate rather than hoping for a career performance from a number of mediocre d-men. It's not realistic to expect anything more than last year this year. Teams know how we play now. And to emphasize I hope we dominate and win way beyond what I think - I'm hoping for the best.

 

[Nithoniniel]

because if players on the farm coukd replace them, there's a good chance they would have.

No, young players pretty much never replace established players with big contracts while they are still on the team and performing. It doesn't really matter what a prospect does or how good he is, he's not going to replace a JVR while he's still on the team.

 

[tokyoite]

Losing miserably to the first-year team is not growing pains.
It's called a disaster or a disgrace.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Losing miserably to the first-year team is not growing pains.
It's called a disaster or a disgrace.

It would if one would ignore that said first-year team is actually one of the better teams in the league. And that they were well-rested while it was our third game in four nights, and that we had traveled a ton. You'd also have to ignore that they are on fire right now, and are bulldozing the league.

So it would take quite a lot of ignoring to arrive at the conclusion that this was a disaster and a disgrace.

 

[Loosie]

Losing miserably to the first-year team is not growing pains.
It's called a disaster or a disgrace.

Given the Golden Knights record I wouldn't exactly say it's a disaster or a disgrace. The expansion draft was designed to make Vegas a competitive team out of the gate. As well their home record is insane. 16-2-1.

If Vegas was like any other expansion team then yes I'd say yesterday's results would be a disgrace.

 

[Bullseye]

Given the Golden Knights record I wouldn't exactly say it's a disaster or a disgrace. The expansion draft was designed to make Vegas a competitive team out of the gate. As well their home record is insane. 16-2-1.

If Vegas was like any other expansion team then yes I'd say yesterday's results would be a disgrace.

What if they win the Cup this year? I know it's a long shot regardless of their current record but can you imagine? Seattle would be licking their chops.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

No, young players pretty much never replace established players with big contracts while they are still on the team and performing. It doesn't really matter what a prospect does or how good he is, he's not going to replace a JVR while he's still on the team.

He may not replace JVR, but Babs and Co. Have shown that young guys will play if they TAKE a roster spot. It happened before, and it would happen again.

You don't take an established guy's spot without actually beating him for it.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Given the Golden Knights record I wouldn't exactly say it's a disaster or a disgrace. The expansion draft was designed to make Vegas a competitive team out of the gate. As well their home record is insane. 16-2-1.

If Vegas was like any other expansion team then yes I'd say yesterday's results would be a disgrace.

i'm always amazed when people say this.
it would not have been a disgrace if we lost regardless of what the GK's record was.

 

[Daisy Jane]

What if they win the Cup this year? I know it's a long shot regardless of their current record but can you imagine? Seattle would be licking their chops.

and for 650 million they too can have that chance.

 

[Keon1963]

Losing miserably to the first-year team is not growing pains.
It's called a disaster or a disgrace.

The Leafs lost to the first place team in the West Conference in their building. It was the Leafs third game in 4 nights. Vegas had a 16-2-1 record at home. I was not expecting a win. Nice post?

 

[Nithoniniel]

He may not replace JVR, but Babs and Co. Have shown that young guys will play if they TAKE a roster spot. It happened before, and it would happen again.

You don't take an established guy's spot without actually beating him for it.

Yeah sure. But that happens by showing that you are good, then waiting patiently for something to open up so you can be slotted in. When our youngsters have taken spots before, it's been open spots or ones where the competition is cheap or near replacement level. The hypothetical prospect ready to replace JVR - I say hypothetical so we can avoid the discussion on whether or not we have that player - will not take his spot now, no matter what happens.

 

[Northernguy10]

After this Saturday's game we will have played 43 which means obviously only 39 left. Playing 40 games or more in a season burns a year off future free agency. I wonder if this "deadline" will have any impact at all on any personnel decisions as early as next week?

 

[Budsfan]

Interesting article in the Sun.
Who is top of class? Grading the Maple Leafs at season's halfway point
Lance HornbyMore from Lance Hornby

Who is top of class? Grading the Maple Leafs at season’s halfway point

 

[ChazzMichaelMichaels]

Dermott appears to be ready, he could really potentially help this team out and with the way he’s been playing of late (both before his injury and since he’s returned) you gotta think he’s close to forcing Babcock’s hand. Not sure how we’d figure out the pairings with Rielly, Gardiner and Borgman down the LS but anyone think we could see him soon?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Dermott appears to be ready, he could really potentially help this team out and with the way he’s been playing of late (both before his injury and since he’s returned) you gotta think he’s close to forcing Babcock’s hand. Not sure how we’d figure out the pairings with Rielly, Gardiner and Borgman down the LS but anyone think we could see him soon?

We could demote Borgman for a bit. 3rd pairing hasn't performed well.

 

[ChazzMichaelMichaels]

Not that I think Babs would do it cause he’d need a PK and some grit to that bottom pairing but who played the RS when Borgman and Rosen were paired? Was it Borgman?
Rielly - Hainsey
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Dermott - Borgman
When Z returns, or pair Dermott and Z and have a good mobile 2 way pairing.

I can’t help but feel like we’re gonna acquire Gubranson as a rental for the 3rd pair RS. He checks the Babcock boxes of RH, PK, good pro. Not really sure he’s much of an upgrade at all at this point.

Rielly - Hainsey
Dermott - Zaitsev
Gardiner - Gudbranson
Borgman - Polak

 

[PuckMagi]

Out of Gardiner, Rielly, Borgman, and Dermott... I think that Rielly is probably the best guy to put on the right side.

Gardiner - Rielly
Dermott - Zaitsev
Borgman - Hainsey

I think Babcock needs to take a more offensive approach. This team isn't built to grind out 2-1 wins. We need to be an offensive juggernaut.

 

[ChazzMichaelMichaels]

Out of Gardiner, Rielly, Borgman, and Dermott... I think that Rielly is probably the best guy to put on the right side.

Gardiner - Rielly
Dermott - Zaitsev
Borgman - Hainsey

I think Babcock needs to take a more offensive approach. This team isn't built to grind out 2-1 wins. We need to be an offensive juggernaut.

I hear ya, and I def don’t hate the idea, I’d find it very hard to break up the Rielly - Hainsey pairing though. Think I’d try to experiment with other things before I got to that point.

 

[PuckMagi]

I hear ya, and I def don’t hate the idea, I’d find it very hard to break up the Rielly - Hainsey pairing though. Think I’d try to experiment with other things before I got to that point.

I agree that Rielly - Hainsey have been our best pairing... but Rielly has played on the right before and looked alright. I can't recall ever seeing Gardiner play on the right. And I don't think it's fair to ask a rookie to play on the wrong side.

I think that Rielly is a more offensive player from the right which is a good thing. Offense is his strength and he should be used as an offensive defenseman. I think his shot might be more effective playing on the right because it allows him to shoot more from the middle of the ice.

If we split up Rielly and Hainsey, the hope is that we end up with two good defensive pairings as opposed to just one. Cause even though the Rielly - Hainsey pair has been good... the other pairings have been pretty bad. We can't rely so heavily on just one defensive pairing. And if we bring up Dermott, then hopefully we could actually have 3 solid pairing and we don't have to watch Marincin, Carrick, and Polak anymore.

 

[zeke]

I wouldn't mind seeing us try to "consolidate" our PP and give us one super-powered unit that plays most of the PP.

VanRyk
Nylander - Matthews - Marner
Rielly​

and then a second mop up one

Marleau
Bozak - Kadri - Brown
Jake​

 

[ChazzMichaelMichaels]

I wouldn't mind seeing us try to "consolidate" our PP and give us one super-powered unit that plays most of the PP.

VanRyk
Nylander - Matthews - Marner
Rielly​

and then a second mop up one

Marleau
Bozak - Kadri - Brown
Jake​

I'd absolutely love to see this happen, it's kinda shocking to think Matthews isn't on our #1 PP. It's not like that 2nd unit couldn't generate some chances either.

 

[bobermay]

After January, 17 of the remaining 30 games of the season will be against Altantic Division teams... that should help us out a bit!

Interesting...

11 of first 53 games are against the Alantic
17 of last 29 games are against the Atlantic

 

[saffronleaf]

We could demote Borgman for a bit. 3rd pairing hasn't performed well.

Borgman is developing well though. And he adds a physical edge to our D.

 

[htpwn]

So, um... yeah... the Polak experiment needs to end.