Line Combos: 2017-18 Roster Thread II - Massive changes not coming

[dracom]

Cogs has basically zero offensive game outside of capitalizing on turnovers. Kase is much better at creating chances and it isn't close. Saying he is better than cogs offensively isn't really saying anything all:naughty and if he wasn't then he wouldn't be in the nhl.

Cogs can still put pucks in the net, something Kase hasn't been able to do. So far, Kase is a slightly better Sekac right now until proven otherwise.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Cogs has basically zero offensive game outside of capitalizing on turnovers. Kase is much better at creating chances and it isn't close. Saying he is better than cogs offensively isn't really saying anything all:naughty and if he wasn't then he wouldn't be in the nhl.

Kase had 5 goals 10 assists 15 points in 53 games. He wasn't that good offensively. He looked better then he actually was. When Kase is able to produce 15+ goals and 30+ points get back to me about him being better offensively. Kase played in the NHL for us because we didn't have a good deep forward group not because he was good offensively.

Cogs can still put pucks in the net, something Kase hasn't been able to do. So far, Kase is a slightly better Sekac right now until proven otherwise.

I agree with this.

 

[dukie01]

I think provided we had Rakell and Gibson back we would have beaten Pittsburgh, I think a healthy Nashville beats Pittsburgh too. We have a better countering 1-2 centre punch than Nashville did and a miles better blueline than the Pens.

This was the weakest cup winning team since 2006.

Was with you 100% til that last line...ouch. Fun fact I just learned recently: The '06 Canes have the highest PP% (24%) of any cup winner since the '95 Devils (25%). In NHL history, only the '81 Isles, '88 Oilers and '91 North Stars (runners-up) have scored more PPG than the 31 the Canes put up that year.

Back on topic though...how do you all see the 3rd D pairing shaping up to start the year? I've seen Larsson, Megna, Holzer, Welinski all mentioned...throw Oleksy into the mix there too?

 

[Static]

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/a...im-ducks-roster-will-look-like-in-three-years

 

[91Fedorov]

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/a...im-ducks-roster-will-look-like-in-three-years

That was a cool article. Kind of a fun read.

 

[duckpuck]

For the life of me I cannot understand why suddenly so many people want to trade Cogliano.

As others have noted, it is not so much "wanting" to trade Cogs are realizing: (i) the ducks need upgrades, particularly scoring; and (ii) Cogs is likely gone after next year due to cap issues. He's an obvious piece to CONSIDER trading. No one is suggesting he should be dumped for nothing.

Ditto.

Not every player is going to be a star. Players like Cogliano make you better.

It is possible that Cogs leaving gives another player a chance - a player who helps the team in perhaps different or needed ways. Cogs is valuable but not irreplaceable.

I couldn't disagree more. That line does best when there's a strong forechecking player forcing the defensemen to make hurried decisions (and, more to the point, mistakes), and then Silfverberg and Kesler are adept at being in the right places to cut off rushes and intercept passes. Cogliano provides that forecheck with his speed and smarts.

None of the youths being talked about as his replacement are remotely capable of providing what he does inthat role at this point in their careers.

I actually think Kase would do well on that line. He's not as good as good defensively as Cogs, but in terms of forechecking he's actually pretty good and very crafty at getting pucks out of the corners (more than you'd expect given his size). More generally, I think you can find a lot of fast guys who can play that roll - Daniel Winnick is available and could probably be signed to a very reasonable deal.

Cogs has basically zero offensive game outside of capitalizing on turnovers. Kase is much better at creating chances and it isn't close. Saying he is better than cogs offensively isn't really saying anything all:naughty and if he wasn't then he wouldn't be in the nhl.

This

Cogs can still put pucks in the net, something Kase hasn't been able to do. So far, Kase is a slightly better Sekac right now until proven otherwise.

Cogs has never consistently put pucks in the net, particularly when you consider how many chances he gets. I've never seen a guy miss so many break away attempts and point blank shots. Yes - he gets credit for working for the opportunities - but a goal scorer he is not. He does other valuable things well, but for a team looking for more scoring balance, he's not a top six winger.

Kase has played mostly fourth line LIMITED minutes, often playing with Boll or other offensive production killers. He actually looked really good when he received top 6 minutes - I remembering a brief good stretch on Getzlaf's line. His goal production is ok - to be honest I think he may share Cogliano's inability to finish. But on the whole, I think he'd put up very similar numbers to Cogs if he was given a similar role/minutes - if not a little better.

 

[dracom]

As others have noted, it is not so much "wanting" to trade Cogs are realizing: (i) the ducks need upgrades, particularly scoring; and (ii) Cogs is likely gone after next year due to cap issues. He's an obvious piece to CONSIDER trading. No one is suggesting he should be dumped for nothing.

Cogs next contract isn't going to be much more than what he's currently making. Re-signing him shouldn't be an issue. Cogs also isn't going to be involved in a trade where we're upgrading our forward core, he just doesn't have that kind of value. And even if he was, we just replaced one forward with another and not solving our forward depth issue. There's actually no reason to even consider trading him since he would be a rental to any team trading for him, most likely playoff contenders which should be us anyways. So once again, there's no reason to move Cogs now or at the TDL.

It is possible that Cogs leaving gives another player a chance - a player who helps the team in perhaps different or needed ways. Cogs is valuable but not irreplaceable.

We don't have that player right now. We don't have a player who would fit well on the 2nd line and not be a disaster defensively. So yes, with our current forward group, Cogs is irreplaceable.

I actually think Kase would do well on that line. He's not as good as good defensively as Cogs, but in terms of forechecking he's actually pretty good and very crafty at getting pucks out of the corners (more than you'd expect given his size). More generally, I think you can find a lot of fast guys who can play that roll - Daniel Winnick is available and could probably be signed to a very reasonable deal.

Kase is no where good enough to be playing on the 2nd line. And if you want to criticize Cogs for not scoring enough, just wait until Kase has play on the shutdown line; would be shocked if he even cracked 10 points. Kase does not replace Cogs.

This

Not this actually. As I stated before, Cogs can actually produce points. Something Kase has failed to do so. He's just a slightly better version of Sekac right now. I think he'll be better than Sekac in the longrun, but he hasn't proven that yet and I don't see him doing so this season

Cogs has never consistently put pucks in the net, particularly when you consider how many chances he gets. I've never seen a guy miss so many break away attempts and point blank shots. Yes - he gets credit for working for the opportunities - but a goal scorer he is not. He does other valuable things well, but for a team looking for more scoring balance, he's not a top six winger.

He consistently puts up 10+ goals and 25+ assists each season, while playing on a shutdown line. He averages around 35 points a season. You're not giving his offensive game enough credit, while giving someone like Kase way too much offensive credit. For his skill level, he's doing just fine on the 2nd line while still putting up respectable numbers. I do agree he and the team would benefit from him being on the 3rd line though. But since we don't have someone who can replace him on the 2nd line, there's no reason to do so.

Kase has played mostly fourth line LIMITED minutes, often playing with Boll or other offensive production killers. He actually looked really good when he received top 6 minutes - I remembering a brief good stretch on Getzlaf's line. His goal production is ok - to be honest I think he may share Cogliano's inability to finish. But on the whole, I think he'd put up very similar numbers to Cogs if he was given a similar role/minutes - if not a little better.

Kase is flashy and as snake bitten as Cogs, but without the defensive sound part to his game. His point production last season does not warrant him a spot on the 2nd line over a proven performer like Cogs. Kase defensive game would expose and ruin one of the leagues best shutdown line; while also most likely ruining Kase offensive production (what little that actually is right now).

 

[Sojourn]

It is possible that Cogs leaving gives another player a chance - a player who helps the team in perhaps different or needed ways. Cogs is valuable but not irreplaceable.

Let's play a game...

Name that player.

I'm all for hypothetical discussion, but if we're going this route shouldn't there actually be a player knocking on the door? We are talking right now, since this is the relevant time frame, am I right?

I'm going to scratch off Kase because we're not just talking about a top six role, but also a shutdown role. He hasn't even proven he can be a top six offensive player, and that's the strong side of his skill-set. So, Kase. I'll scratch off Kerdiles, because he hasn't even played double digit NHL games yet, and he looks every bit the rookie he is. Kerdiles. Jones should probably at least show he belongs first. Jones. Ditto for Steel. Steel. And Kossila. Kossila. Shaw, Wagner, and Boll are little more than 4th liners, and pretty borderline at that. Shaw, Wagner, Boll. Rakell simply doesn't have the defensive chops right now. I'd even go so far as to say we want him as far away from that type of role as possible. Rakell. Ritchie just isn't good enough yet, and to be honest, he takes some of the stupidest penalties. In a shutdown role, you need to show better discipline. I'm also a bit skeptical of his on-ice work ethic, and his conditioning. That's a hard job. Ritchie. Rasmussen should actually play some games for us first. Rasmussen.

Did I miss anyone who deserves to be on the list?

I think before we start talking about replacing a player, we should have a legitimate replacement. We're talking about a top 6 shutdown role here. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to start introducing rookies, or questionable players into roles that are so essential to the success of the team, at least when winning right now is the point. I think there is some merit to that type of experimentation when a player starts to earn those greater responsibilities, but we're looking at a list that is mostly filled with completely inexperienced rookies, or fringe depth players. Even a top six offensive talent like Rakell clearly doesn't belong, since he has struggled at times on the defensive side of the game in a much less demanding defensive role.

This is a fun game. Have you thought of a name yet?

 

[broman]

Cogs is an energy player with a 3rd line package forced into a 2nd line role. That's hardly unheard of in the NHL, but regardless. His next contract should reflect the former, but I'm afraid it will be the exact opposite. This to me is the main reason for Cogs speculation.

However I definitely agree that there are no standout replacements for Cogs currently in the system, so there's little sense contemplating trades now. While I am intrigued by the Swedish sandwich Raks-X-Silf, I don't see Ritchie as a top 6 staple just yet. So Cogs is needed.

 

[JabbaJabba]

It's hard to imagine the team without Cogliano, his work effort and the speed he brings would surely be missed. Sometimes he has been the only who looked he cared. Cogliano isn't going to be replaced as easily as some seem to think and even if he is pushed out of top6 role, Cogliano would be extremely useful in the bottom 6. I hope the Ducks find away to keep him in the future.

 

[Crosbysux]

Cogs is an energy player with a 3rd line package forced into a 2nd line role. That's hardly unheard of in the NHL, but regardless. His next contract should reflect the former, but I'm afraid it will be the exact opposite. This to me is the main reason for Cogs speculation.

However I definitely agree that there are no standout replacements for Cogs currently in the system, so there's little sense contemplating trades now. While I am intrigued by the Swedish sandwich Raks-X-Silf, I don't see Ritchie as a top 6 staple just yet. So Cogs is needed.

This is basically what everyone's saying and I agree with it 100%.

Let's play a game...

Name that player.

I'm all for hypothetical discussion, but if we're going this route shouldn't there actually be a player knocking on the door? We are talking right now, since this is the relevant time frame, am I right?

I'm going to scratch off Kase because we're not just talking about a top six role, but also a shutdown role. He hasn't even proven he can be a top six offensive player, and that's the strong side of his skill-set. So, Kase. I'll scratch off Kerdiles, because he hasn't even played double digit NHL games yet, and he looks every bit the rookie he is. Kerdiles. Jones should probably at least show he belongs first. Jones. Ditto for Steel. Steel. And Kossila. Kossila. Shaw, Wagner, and Boll are little more than 4th liners, and pretty borderline at that. Shaw, Wagner, Boll. Rakell simply doesn't have the defensive chops right now. I'd even go so far as to say we want him as far away from that type of role as possible. Rakell. Ritchie just isn't good enough yet, and to be honest, he takes some of the stupidest penalties. In a shutdown role, you need to show better discipline. I'm also a bit skeptical of his on-ice work ethic, and his conditioning. That's a hard job. Ritchie. Rasmussen should actually play some games for us first. Rasmussen.

Did I miss anyone who deserves to be on the list?

I think before we start talking about replacing a player, we should have a legitimate replacement. We're talking about a top 6 shutdown role here. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to start introducing rookies, or questionable players into roles that are so essential to the success of the team, at least when winning right now is the point. I think there is some merit to that type of experimentation when a player starts to earn those greater responsibilities, but we're looking at a list that is mostly filled with completely inexperienced rookies, or fringe depth players. Even a top six offensive talent like Rakell clearly doesn't belong, since he has struggled at times on the defensive side of the game in a much less demanding defensive role.

This is a fun game. Have you thought of a name yet?

The Kesler line is a shutdown line and Cogs adds value to that for sure; however, BM mentioned that Kesler can not keep playing the game as he does and that he wants 3 scoring lines. Cogliano in that role, specifically playoffs, does not work. If BM truly wants Kesler to become a more offensively minded/less physical Defensively player, they need a scoring winger on that line. I'm not for throwing Cogs out in the wind, I definitely think we'd make sure one of the guys is up to the task before he'd be traded (if he is even traded). I definitely think his consistent role on that line is in jeapordy. Maybe we keep him around and play him heavily on the PK and late in games, but if they are serious about 3 scoring lines, he's a piece waiting to be moved.

As far as the options for replacing him are concerned, you can scratch them off all you want, but at some point one of the young guys has to step up. Kase had growing pains as a rookie and vanished after looking good at first. Once demoted though, he came back and played very well in the playoffs. If you look at the Preds series, he looked every bit the young player that deserves a shot at carving out a role. He created a lot of opportunities and used his change of direction to clear space for himself. As with all young players, he needs to find consistency. I don't know if he's a fit for the Kesler line though, since they will normally have the tougher matchup defensively than Getzy's line, so someone with a little better defensive ability would likely fit better.

Kerdiles, as you mentioned, looked every bit the rookie in his short cup of coffee. But saying he can't push for a spot based on that alone is short sighted. He was counted on to be a shutdown player in SD to begin the season, so that's a fit defensively for the Kesler line. He was moved to a scoring role halfway through the season and flourished there. He was clearly their best forward in the playoffs and it wasn't even close. He came up and looked a little over his head. Sure, it was the WCF, but he should have hit the ground running If you look at the last game in particular, you know what? He didn't look over his head and made a real nice play that lead to him getting a primary assist on Wagner's goal. I'm not saying he's a write in for that wing by any means. But I do think they will give him a look and the Ducks are hoping he makes an impact next year.

People saying we should blame Kesler for the lack of second line scoring as much as Cogs are ridiculous Come on, the guy was playing on one leg and he still was able to limit McJesus and RyJo.

 

[Carelton CA]

Let's play a game...

Name that player.

I'm all for hypothetical discussion, but if we're going this route shouldn't there actually be a player knocking on the door? We are talking right now, since this is the relevant time frame, am I right?

I'm going to scratch off Kase because we're not just talking about a top six role, but also a shutdown role. He hasn't even proven he can be a top six offensive player, and that's the strong side of his skill-set. So, Kase. I'll scratch off Kerdiles, because he hasn't even played double digit NHL games yet, and he looks every bit the rookie he is. Kerdiles. Jones should probably at least show he belongs first. Jones. Ditto for Steel. Steel. And Kossila. Kossila. Shaw, Wagner, and Boll are little more than 4th liners, and pretty borderline at that. Shaw, Wagner, Boll. Rakell simply doesn't have the defensive chops right now. I'd even go so far as to say we want him as far away from that type of role as possible. Rakell. Ritchie just isn't good enough yet, and to be honest, he takes some of the stupidest penalties. In a shutdown role, you need to show better discipline. I'm also a bit skeptical of his on-ice work ethic, and his conditioning. That's a hard job. Ritchie. Rasmussen should actually play some games for us first. Rasmussen.

Did I miss anyone who deserves to be on the list?

I think before we start talking about replacing a player, we should have a legitimate replacement. We're talking about a top 6 shutdown role here. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to start introducing rookies, or questionable players into roles that are so essential to the success of the team, at least when winning right now is the point. I think there is some merit to that type of experimentation when a player starts to earn those greater responsibilities, but we're looking at a list that is mostly filled with completely inexperienced rookies, or fringe depth players. Even a top six offensive talent like Rakell clearly doesn't belong, since he has struggled at times on the defensive side of the game in a much less demanding defensive role.

This is a fun game. Have you thought of a name yet?

Sorry but Wagnerhas more than proven his worth as 4th line guy. He can play any position on the line and has the ability to take Face-offs (50% in the SC), he's also very strong PK guy who can score with he right guys on the ice. He had 3 huge goals in the playoffs and had to be near the top of the forwards for PK time. He also had to be near the top in hits by forwards. To group him in with Borderline guys isn't the truth.

 

[Crosbysux]

Sorry but Wagnerhas more than proven his worth as 4th line guy. He can play any position on the line and has the ability to take Face-offs (50% in the SC), he's also very strong PK guy who can score with he right guys on the ice. He had 3 huge goals in the playoffs and had to be near the top of the forwards for PK time. He also had to be near the top in hits by forwards. To group him in with Borderline guys isn't the truth.

I agree with this. The only reason people will group him in with borderline guys is those who see the player we tried forcing to be a center. Much like Cogliano, he is much better on the wing. He's shown in the AHL he can be a sneakily good offensive player, which is why I added him to the potential list of guys who could play on the Kesler line. I think Kase/Kerdiles have a higher upside, but Wagner is a dark horse candidate to push Cogs. He's shown he can chip in a goal and definitely has a physical presence that could thrive in that role. He had 6 goals this year on the 4th line with revolving players around him. He also potted 3 goals in a similar role in the playoffs. He's a guy who has a good all around game and one that translates well to the postseason.

Again, I don't think anyone here is saying Cogs is garbage or not a good player. I think it's collectively that he is not a 2nd line player and he's being played in that role. With a change in philosophy for that line, he's a guy that they are going to challenge for his spot. I think the trade notion sneaks up since he's in the last year of his contract and all signs are pointing to Cogs being the guy who will be challenged the most for his spot. I also think that notion increases with the idea he isn't going to be resigned. If guys aren't ready this year, they will all be in a much better position the following year.

 

[Goose of Reason]

Personally I don't see how anyone can think Wagner is even close to being as effective as Cogs. Cogliano may not be a big time scorer but the Kesler line is reliant on his forechecking to create turnovers. And that line still crushed it for half the year before Kesler got hurt. It's not like he's holding it back, he showed it can still produce offense with him on it.

 

[Crosbysux]

Personally I don't see how anyone can think Wagner is even close to being as effective as Cogs. Cogliano may not be a big time scorer but the Kesler line is reliant on his forechecking to create turnovers. And that line still crushed it for half the year before Kesler got hurt. It's not like he's holding it back, he showed it can still produce offense with him on it.

1 goal in the postseason... and that's not a new trend. Wagner matched Cogs postseason goal career high this year, with limited ice time and rotating partners. Wagner is a really good defensive player as well. No one is saying that it will be Wagner, but that Cogliano is going to face stiff competition from someone and Wagner could be that guy. Lets not think Cogliano is the only player or plays the only style of game that works on Kesler's line. Belesky played really well with Kesler/Silfverberg in the playoffs, so a physical guy can also work in that position.

 

[Duck Off]

The Kesler line is a shutdown line and Cogs adds value to that for sure; however, BM mentioned that Kesler can not keep playing the game as he does and that he wants 3 scoring lines. Cogliano in that role, specifically playoffs, does not work. If BM truly wants Kesler to become a more offensively minded/less physical Defensively player, they need a scoring winger on that line.

Maybe it's just me, but I took Murray's comments much different than you did. When he said he needed Kesler to change his game, I took that as not going "balls to wall" every second of the game. I didn't think he was speaking about being more of an offensive player at all. I took that comment as more of not going crazy every second to conserve your body better come playoff time. I don't think he wants him to become less defensive minded or anything like that. Just maybe tone it down a notch at times to conserve his body/health.

I think the 3 scoring lines comment was more directed at the other "scoring line". That line didn't do anything offensively. The ES offense was pretty much all Getzlaf's line and Silfverberg. I mean Vermette had 3 points (1 empty netter) and Ritchie had 4. Perry ended up with 10 ES points, but he didn't really get going until he was put with Getzlaf. I don't doubt that Murray would like more offense from Kesler's line, but I don't think he's getting at being less defensively at all. I think he was clearly speaking about the other line not producing enough offensively. I'm sure he wants more offensively from Cogs and Kes, but their #1 job is to shutdown the opposing team. I think Carlyle has even said that offense from that line is just a bonus.

People saying we should blame Kesler for the lack of second line scoring as much as Cogs are ridiculous Come on, the guy was playing on one leg and he still was able to limit McJesus and RyJo.

He did great against McDavid. Cryjo got hurt early in that series and was very strong when he was in. You're also completely discrediting Cogliano defensively on those two as well. Yes, Kesler was the primary reason, but Cogliano's defensive play was very important too. It just seems a bit hypocritical that you're giving Kesler more of a pass because of other things he provides and not Cogs. Yes, Kesler provides more intangibles, but he also makes twice as much so he better.

 

[Duck Off]

1 goal in the postseason... and that's not a new trend. Wagner matched Cogs postseason goal career high this year, with limited ice time and rotating partners. Wagner is a really good defensive player as well. No one is saying that it will be Wagner, but that Cogliano is going to face stiff competition from someone and Wagner could be that guy. Lets not think Cogliano is the only player or plays the only style of game that works on Kesler's line. Belesky played really well with Kesler/Silfverberg in the playoffs, so a physical guy can also work in that position.

Beleskey was terrific that year because he was very motivated. Kesler and Silfverberg need a winger who is strong on the forecheck and has a "no stop" mentality. Beleskey's new found finishing ability was awesome, but it was his forechecking that year that made that line work.

Wagner has his moments, but motivation seems like an issue with him. He got very complacent after he signed the 1 way deal. Fortunately for HIM, we lost Crammarossa to waivers which gave him another shot. He was clearly better, but he didn't bring it every night. That's the #1 reason Cogs is so good there. He never stops the aggressive forechecking.

Edit: I'm not completely dismissing the idea that Wagner could become an option on that line, but it seems like a longshot to happen. He definitely shouldn't be considered there right now. We need to see way more from him than we have for him to be counted in that role.

 

[dracom]

1 goal in the postseason... and that's not a new trend. Wagner matched Cogs postseason goal career high this year, with limited ice time and rotating partners. Wagner is a really good defensive player as well. No one is saying that it will be Wagner, but that Cogliano is going to face stiff competition from someone and Wagner could be that guy. Lets not think Cogliano is the only player or plays the only style of game that works on Kesler's line. Belesky played really well with Kesler/Silfverberg in the playoffs, so a physical guy can also work in that position.

What? That's ridiculous. Wagner will be a career 4th liner. A good one, but still just a 4th liner. Wagner will never be good enough to be a 2nd liner on a shutdown line while still providing 35+ points a season like Cogs does.

 

[Exit Dose]

Cogs has basically zero offensive game outside of capitalizing on turnovers. Kase is much better at creating chances and it isn't close. Saying he is better than cogs offensively isn't really saying anything all:naughty and if he wasn't then he wouldn't be in the nhl.

It's saying that you're not living in reality. You're mistaking what Kase could be for what he currently is.

 

[darkwingduck]

I don't think its heretical to think that a player can improve upon cogliano, but i dont think that player is in the system atm for this season.


Personally, I'd like to see a line of Cogliano-X-Kase. But don't know which center would be ideal for that?

 

[KickHisAssZegrass]

Wagner comparable to Cogs? Not even a debate. IMO Wagner is a borderline 4th liner, when he's hitting and creating space he's legit. Seems like he got a way from that last season.

 

[Ducks DVM]

The time to get rid of Cogliano is when we have a young left wing that is near to being a top 3 defensive player on the team (player, not PK'er, the two aren't synonymous) and capable of putting up the 15G/30P Cogliano does - at the same time. At the moment, none of them are anywhere near as good as he is defensively, and it would be interesting to see if Cogliano couldn't accumulate more points (40+ range) if he wasn't tasked with defending the other teams' best players and was instead getting less taxing minutes and matchups like the kids are.

Agreed that there's zero chance that the Kesler line isn't used defensively going forward. 'Changing his playing style" clearly meant "not hitting everything that moves", not "you're an offensive guy now". Even if it did, then the 3rd line would get remade into the defensive line, and there is still no better left wing for that role then Cogliano. It's comical to even suggest RC would EVER have a team without a defensive matchup line.

 

[91Fedorov]

I am intrigued by the Swedish sandwich Raks-X-Silf

Way to make it creepy Bro!

 

[Carelton CA]

My point was not that Wagner would replace Cogs at all. My point was Wagner is a good versatile 4th liner and not a border line guy in that role. Bit, in the 17 playoff games they both played in this year they weren't to far a part performance wise.

Cogs had 1 goal 2 assists was -3, TOI was 13:49 avg.

Wagner had 3 goals 0 assists was +1, TOI was 10:59 avg.

PK TOI Total was Cogs 19:32 and Wagner was a much higher 30:32.

 

[Duck Off]

My point was not that Wagner would replace Cogs at all. My point was Wagner is a good versatile 4th liner and not a border line guy in that role. Bit, in the 17 playoff games they both played in this year they weren't to far a part performance wise.

Cogs had 1 goal 2 assists was -3, TOI was 13:49 avg.

Wagner had 3 goals 0 assists was +1, TOI was 10:59 avg.

PK TOI Total was Cogs 19:32 and Wagner was a much higher 30:32.

It's not unfair to say he's a borderline 4th liner since he bounced between AHL/NHL last year. However, I would simply call him a "4th liner" myself. He has potential to maybe be more, but it doesn't seem likely IMO.

I mentioned it in the playoff thread back then, but it's very odd that Cogs went from one of top PK minute guys to getting less PK minutes than many other players. My guess is that he was nursing at least one significant injury in the playoffs as well. It just doesn't explain how guys that are easily inferior were getting more PK minutes.

As far as their numbers, like Kesler, we need more ES offense from them, but comparing Cogs and Wagner's stats is pretty silly IMO. One of these guys faces other teams top line consistently. The other faces the other teams 3rd and 4th lines most often.