2017-18 roster talk: the 8th Wonder of the World

[TCTC]

I think with Hextall it's more about serendipity than need.
He knows what he wants, and if the right opportunity presents itself, to get that player by giving up players he values less, he'll pull the trigger.
But I don't see him reaching to get "that one player" to put them over the top because I don't think that's the way Hextall thinks.
My impression is that he sees this as a continual process (yes, trust the process!) of incremental improvement, where you don't try to rush things.

The one thing that stands out in his deals is his ability to leverage each deal into garnering a little more value, get the other GM to throw in a 3rd rd pick, etc. Value seems very important to Hextall (as it did to Hinkie) which may reflect a fundamental humility, he knows that it's luck as much as skill, and the more lottery tickets the better.

I think it depends on how the team performs. If we're close, say make it to the Conference Final twice, but still come up short because we're missing a goal scorer for example, Hextall should try to get that player.
No Cup window lasts forever.

 

[NYCFlyer]

Honestly....even if we are playing well, do you see our defense and goaltending as good enough to win a cup?

Duchene is a guy who a try contender should add to try and win now. Whereas we are a tweener so adding him still leaves us short in other spots.

Of course we all know our D (improving rapidly over next two years) and G (especially) are not good enough to win a Cup this year as constituted. I think we could make some minor moves to create room for the young guys at the trade deadline if we are unlikely to make the playoffs but the only big move i can see is if Hextall thinks we are a contender with a strong goalie and Hart and Sand are three years out.
Duchene although a good player he would be added to our deepest position. I think we have the assets to get him but i would be really surprised if they would take something Hextall might part with... a cap dump (MacD, Flip or Lehtera) a solid prospect (Hagg) and a good pick (Stl 1 ).

 

[Magua]

I do think the Flyers could use another elite young forward, a winger preferably, long-term. We have so many prime assets to pool together, or maybe we get lucky drafting someone who ends up way above their slot (though the Flyers tend to chase high floor/medium ceiling types), or maybe it becomes a 1-for-1 thing, but I still think, if we could get greedy, as contenders must, a dynamic offensive talent is still a potential need.

But I don't want to trade for an overrated, overpaid, aging player.

 

[Rebels57]

I do think the Flyers could use another elite young forward, a winger preferably, long-term. We have so many prime assets to pool together, or maybe we get lucky drafting someone who ends up way above their slot (though the Flyers tend to chase high floor/medium ceiling types), or maybe it becomes a 1-for-1 thing, but I still think, if we could get greedy, as contenders must, a dynamic offensive talent is still a potential need.

But I don't want to trade for an overrated, overpaid, aging player.

I wanna see what we have in Lindblom first before looking to add a winger.

 

[deadhead]

We traded away an offensive talent.
I think it would not just have to be an offensive winger, but someone who has the qualities that Hextall would ideally like in a winger, some unholy combination of Couts, Simmonds, Voracek and Konecny:

1) speed, he wants a faster team, that's pretty obvious, though not at the expense of other qualities
2) good wrist shot, we're drafting a lot of good shooters
3) size, Ratcliffe, Alison, Strome, Rubtsov, lot's of guys 6'0+ and 200+ lb, smaller guys tend to be "feisty" like Konency
4) hockey IQ, Hextall loves guys who see the ice on offense and anticipate and are responsible defensively

Of course, any player who could punch all four boxes would be expensive, but I think Hextall would jump at a 22 year old winger who came close.
On the other hand, I think Hextall wouldn't consider players like Drouin.
I don't think he wants "all offense" types who consider defense an after thought.

 

[Magua]

I wanna see what we have in Lindblom first before looking to add a winger.

But I am not sure he will ever be more than a 50ish point 2-way player. Not trying to disparage him because that's a quality player in your top 6, but I'm talking about a player you look at as legitimately the second best forward on a Cup caliber team. Voracek still could be that, but he's certainly going to be moving away from his at times inconsistent prime. Maybe TK, but I'm also not certain about that. I don't think there's a rush in the next couple years, and we can see what happens. To be clear, you can be a quality difference making player without being an elite one.

 

[deadhead]

Konency could be that scorer, paired with a center like Patrick.
The prospect wingers are 3-4 years away (Allison, Bunnyman, et al).
Rubtsov and Frost are potential elite scorers, see how they do this year in juniors.

But I'm not sure whether Hextall would rather have a half dozen 30-40 ES point wingers who play two way than focusing on one or two 50 ES point guys, especially since this team will have a lot of scoring from their defense in a couple years.

We're already seeing the benefits of rolling out 4 legitimate lines after 5 years of barely being able to roll out 2 lines.

 

[Rebels57]

But I am not sure he will ever be more than a 50ish point 2-way player. Not trying to disparage him because that's a quality player in your top 6, but I'm talking about a player you look at as legitimately the second best forward on a Cup caliber team. Voracek still could be that, but he's certainly going to be moving away from his at times inconsistent prime. Maybe TK, but I'm also not certain about that. I don't think there's a rush in the next couple years, and we can see what happens. To be clear, you can be a quality difference making player without being an elite one.

For sure. I think 50 points is realistic for Oskar. I moreso want to see how he changes the dynamic of our top 9 then assess which Forward position is of most need.

If G stays at LW then we may already be set there and instead a middle 6 C to replace Filppula could be our biggest need. However, that could end up being Vorobyev!

 

[deadhead]

That's one reason I think we're two years away from being serious contenders and why Hextall probably won't make a big move until then.

1) who is the goalie of the future?
2) how good will Rubtsov and Frost turn out to be?
3) how good will the young forwards be and when will they arrive?
4) how good will the young defensemen be and which ones will emerge?

Right now Hextall has more questions than answers, so it's premature to think about trading people away (or making a big move) until you have a better idea of what you've got in the organization.
In two years you might have Vorobyev as your 3rd center, Rubtsov on the wing with Lindblom and NAK, Frost, Allison, Bunnyman and Ratcliffe all in the AHL, and so on. Sundstrom or Hart might be pushing to take a goalie job. Sanheim, Myers, Morin, Friedman might all be pushing to start.
At that point Hextall may be forced to package 2-3 prospects and a draft pick just to make roster room.

 

[FLYguy3911]

http://www.courierpostonline.com/st...l-job-samuel-morin-isnt-far-behind/759244001/

“Whenever you’re a lefty on the right and you have the puck on your forehand it’s exposed to the middle,” MacDonald explained. “A backchecker or a forward on their side of the ice can easily expose it. When you have it on your backhand you can protect it better and give yourself an extra half second to make a play to get it out. It’s not the easiest at times, but you adjust to it and try to play to the strengths of it.”

While MacDonald started that process in his junior hockey days, Hagg started doing it on a regular basis last season. He started the season with Will O’Neill on the left, then was on a pair with Moorestown native T.J. Brennan.

Hagg doesn’t think it helped him make the team, but when Gostisbehere asked him if he’d play the right side he obliged.

That's hilarious if that's how it really went down.

 

[Striiker]

Wasn't he a RD before, or am I losing it?

 

[Magua]

Okay, I smiled at the one player quoted as defending Hakstol's challenge in that article being MacDonald.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

The players are picking their sides? Wtf?

 

[Striiker]

Okay, I smiled at the one player quoted as defending Hakstol's challenge in that article being MacDonald.

Makes sense. He knows he owes Hakstok a lot.

 

[Random Forest]

The players are picking their sides? Wtf?

Why's that weird? Players aren't rigidly assigned positions, and most players have competency on either side of the ice even if they have a slight preference toward one or the other. These are NHL players-- switching sides of the ice doesn't fundamentally change the game. Minor adjustments need to be made, sure, but it's not like going from D to C where you need to relearn the game.

 

[Psuhockey]

Honestly....even if we are playing well, do you see our defense and goaltending as good enough to win a cup?

Duchene is a guy who a try contender should add to try and win now. Whereas we are a tweener so adding him still leaves us short in other spots.

That's why I think Doughty will be the target. It makes sense for all sides, Philly, LA and Doughty. It also leaps the Flyers forward into contender status far more than any forward available. Hextall said he would make a big trade only when it would put the Flyers into the top 6-7 teams in the league. Doughty does that.

 

[TCTC]

Doughty's one of my favorite Non-Flyers, so I'd love to have him on the team. But I think if we add one elite player, it should be a forward.

I expect a reverse Carter/Richards trade at some point. Acquire a top forward in his prime for picks and prospects.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

You have Simmonds, Provorov, Konecny, & Sanheim all up for new contracts at the same time as Doughty.

 

[deadhead]

If Doughty is coming up for his UFA contract, no way Hextall trades for him.
He's not going to risk losing top young players in three years because he has so much money tied up in G, V and Doughty.
Plus, you'd be paying for Doughty's declining years when you have top young D-talents reaching their peaks.
Doughty has averaged 5-19 24 at ES over the last four years, Provorov had 6-19 25 as a rookie.
Doughty eats a lot of time, but that has more value to a team that's thin at defensemen, not the Flyers.

The ideal trade target will be a top wing prospect who's ready for or already on a long-term RFA extension at a reasonable cost.
Someone around 22-24 years old, old enough to already be highly productive but who should produce his entire contract.
Flyers would have to give up a top D prospect (Morin, Myers, Sanheim or Ghost), a top forward prospect and probably a 1st rd pick.

But I wouldn't expect this deal to be made for at least another season.

 

[Psuhockey]

You have Simmonds, Provorov, Konecny, & Sanheim all up for new contracts at the same time as Doughty.

Right but the Flyers have 15.7 million in cap space for next season with no one to resign to big money. Add Lehtera money and a MacDonald buy out to that mix the following season when Doughty needs to be resigned. MacDonald's buy out alone should about cover Provorovs extension salary increase. Plus there would likely be salary going back to LA, and IMO a trade would probably include Ghost'so that's more salary off the books.

The Flyers are going to be replacing big contracts with elcs for the next few years. As long as the first power play is dominated with vets, none of the 2nd contracts will be that large because it isn't likely the forwards will put up huge points enough to get huge extensions. They can be kept on bridge deals. A two year bridge deal for Patrick coincides with Giroux contract ending. The 2nd contracts for defensemen league wide has been very reasonable and are usually long enough where Voracek and Simmonds will be gone by then.

 

[Psuhockey]

If Doughty is coming up for his UFA contract, no way Hextall trades for him.
He's not going to risk losing top young players in three years because he has so much money tied up in G, V and Doughty.
Plus, you'd be paying for Doughty's declining years when you have top young D-talents reaching their peaks.
Doughty has averaged 5-19 24 at ES over the last four years, Provorov had 6-19 25 as a rookie.
Doughty eats a lot of time, but that has more value to a team that's thin at defensemen, not the Flyers..

Doughty is the type of defensemen that will be good well into his 30's IMO like a Lindstrom. He is only 29 at the end of his contract so will only be 37 when his extension ends. Timmo was still good at that age.

Having one of Doughty or Provorov on the ice for 40 plus minutes a game seems like it would help any team. Plus you could pair them together to close out games. It would be like the Ducks Stanley cup team with Pronger and Niedermayer.

Trading for Doughty also makes the Flyers contenders well before the declining years of the vet forwards.

 

[Tripod]

So reading thru, and looking at our future depth:

Giroux Couts Voracek
Lindblom Patrick Konecny
XXXX Vorobyev XXXX

So this assumes Simmonds is not re-signed. We will have:

Frost, Allison, Rubstov, etc... fighting for those 2 spots. If we go out and get that elite forward, some of these young guys will be gone in the trade.

Ideally, we make a trade like Hall/Larsson or Jones/ RJ. We sacrifice 1 good young D with upside for a forward with the same. And then that forward pushes everyone down making us very deep.

Plus, if Simmonds is moved, we have his return to grab a forward. Not to mention our 2 1sts this year. Who knows, maybe this year Hextall packages them together to grab a high end guy.

With so many prospects and picks we have options.

 

[Rebels57]

Why's that weird? Players aren't rigidly assigned positions, and most players have competency on either side of the ice even if they have a slight preference toward one or the other. These are NHL players-- switching sides of the ice doesn't fundamentally change the game. Minor adjustments need to be made, sure, but it's not like going from D to C where you need to relearn the game.

Lmao yes they are.

 

[Curufinwe]

Okay, I smiled at the one player quoted as defending Hakstol's challenge in that article being MacDonald.

Is there another quote I'm not seeing?

“It was Game 4 of the season. There’s plenty of season ahead,” MacDonald said. “Looking forward to moving on.”

 

[Random Forest]

Lmao yes they are.

Lmao, no, they're not. Of course most players have settled into their preferred side and aren't likely to move around, but if Voracek and Giroux, for example, decided they wanted to flip wings, they could decide to do it and just tell Hakstol that's what they're doing, no different than Hagg and Ghost. There's this weird assumption that players are locked into RW/LW or RD/LD positions, but that's not really how it works. Sure, if there's an imbalance of righties and lefties, that might be a factor, but if you and your linemate both want to flip sides, I highly, highly doubt the coach will step in and veto. It's just, most players are already playing their preferred side, so it's not really an issue. For the record, I know for a fact that this is the case at the NCAA level. I suppose it could be different in the NHL or with different coaches, but players do have the flexibility to switch sides. It's really not something they're locked iinto.