Injury Report: 2017/18 Puck off the Foot Report (Upshall out indefinitely)

[EastonBlues22]

Everyone I’ve ever known to have it was 8-10 months before being cleared for no restrictions. Even if the study you reference says “6 month minimum”. Granted most sports don’t have an 8-month season, so pushing for a season-opener is a much shorter runway in the NHL. But that will always strike me as a needless risk.

http://pointstreaksites.com/view/lph/news-1147/hockey-doc-stored/the-hockey-doc-acl-tears

This is an article by a different doctor (not associated with the previous study) specifically about ACL reconstruction timelines with regards to hockey, and it also says that full return of strength and function is expected at 6 months, and which point they are tested for return to on-ice activity.

I'm not an expert in this particular field, but it sounds like the general consensus (specific to athletes for this sport) is consistent with how Fabbri was handled.

<shrug>

 

[mw2noobbuster]

Fabbri was just unlucky, his ACL was treated the way it should have been and he just got unlucky.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

This witch hunt against the surgeon comes across as pretty ignorant.

That's how things work in medicine. There aren't a bunch of absolutes like on TV. Sometimes you do everything right, and things turn out wrong.

This surgeon is one of the best in the world at this type of repair. What possible incentive does he have to ignore the best available data and put his reputation and livelihood (as well as Fabbri's livelihood) at risk to try to whittle off a couple extra months of rehab? The motivation is preposterous on its face, if you just think about it. The literature about the best practices is public information. Everyone would know if he were doing something against the standard of care. But he did not. Fabbri just had crappy luck.

I was thinking today there is still a way this could work to the Blues' advantage. IF Fabbri does come back close to the player he was, the Blues may have an opportunity to keep him on a cheap contract for a couple years more than they might otherwise have done, during the peak of this window. An effective Fabbri as a 3rd liner could be a pretty nice salary cap addition.

 

[DoubleK81]

So Fabbri had surgery today. The article said Fabbri initially had surgery on Feb 28, 2017...and was cleared for contact on July 31, 2017.

Now, I’m not a doctor (my wife is), and who am I to tell a reputable MD, who has no incentive whatsoever :wink: to be able to get athletes back on the field quicker than any of his peers, how he should do his job, and what an appropriate amount of recovery time is. But does it not really piss anybody else off that a FIVE month recovery period, on an almost universally-accepted 10-12 month recovery schedule, doesn’t seem highly wreckless and irresponsible? It’s not like mankind has taken a giant evolutional advancement in the past two decades to the extent we can halve recovery and rehab. Sure, medicine has gained a ton of advancement in certain areas over the past 10 years, but it’s still joint-replacement and total reconstruction...that takes time.

Someone’s got a 9-month rehab? Huh...maybe that’s worth looking into. A 5-month rehab? Sounds a bit too good to be true, no? Reminds me of Harland Williams, “Listen to this - seven minute abs”.

Regardless...Fabbri will now start his rehab on 11/8...training camp starts 9/8-ish? That gives him 10 full months to be cleared. Would anybody really upset if they pushed his return until November or December of 2018? Essentially 16 games of next year, to where we are now...so that he gets a full 12-month recovery. There is a whole lot at stake for this surgery...isn’t it worth it to proceed with caution at this point? It’s not about getting back quickly. It’s about saving this guy’s career and letting him heal completely before returning.

I referenced it before, and i'll reference it again. Joe Thornton had ACL AND MCL tear repair not only after Fabbri had his surgery, but he returned for preseason play just the same. There is no definite timeline for a return to play. Older people typically heal slower than younger people. These are multi-million $ athletes the doctors are dealing with, they aren't going to clear them to play for shits and grins. What happened to Fabbri could have been an unfortunate occurence, or even a poor effort on his part to rehab to game-day shape. Whatever it is, shit happens, stop trying to find reasons to be pissed off and realize that what happens will happen.

 

[Stealth JD]

Yeah...probably much ado over nothing. That’s what happens when I end up drinking with coworkers until 10:30pm and posting here immediately after.

 

[MissouriMook]

Yeah...probably much ado over nothing. That’s what happens when I end up drinking with coworkers until 10:30pm and posting here immediately after.

Good on you for being able to drink until 10:30 and still answer the bell that early. Or were you STILL up?

 

[PiggySmalls]

So this was posted on Blues subreddit. I remember reading that they were going to take a piece from his good knee to rebuild his ACL in his bad one. This picture shows both knees with a brace but the more robust brace is on his right knee, supposedly the good one. I thought his original injury was on his left knee. If that is the case why would the right knee require more support? Any ideas?

 

[AjaxManifesto]

Wow....heal Robby....don't rush it

 

[Mike Liut]

So this was posted on Blues subreddit. I remember reading that they were going to take a piece from his good knee to rebuild his ACL in his bad one. This picture shows both knees with a brace but the more robust brace is on his right knee, supposedly the good one. I thought his original injury was on his left knee. If that is the case why would the right knee require more support? Any ideas?

They normally take a graft from your patella tendon of your opposite knee or hamstring and use it for new ACL. It doesn’t really affect your opposite leg and the recovery is like getting a few stitches.

 

[PiggySmalls]

They normally take a graft from your patella tendon of your opposite knee or hamstring and use it for new ACL. It doesn’t really affect your opposite leg and the recovery is like getting a few stitches.

I get that part, I just don't get why the knee that the tendon was harvested from is more supported and has bulkier appendages on it. I don't want to come across as a conspiracy theorist, but it just doesn't make sense to me. You would think his bad knee that he reinjured would require the more robust support.

 

[Mike Liut]

I get that part, I just don't get why the knee that the tendon was harvested from is more supported and has bulkier appendages on it. I don't want to come across as a conspiracy theorist, but it just doesn't make sense to me. You would think his bad knee that he reinjured would require the more robust support.

It just requires something similar to getting a few stitches. No additional support is needed. He looks exactly how my daughter looked after her ACL injury from soccer. Probably the same Dr did it too.

 

[PiggySmalls]

It just requires something similar to getting a few stitches. No additional support is needed. He looks exactly how my daughter looked after her ACL injury from soccer. Probably the same Dr did it too.

The bolded is exactly what I was thinking. Blues said he reinjured his knee, which was reported by the Blues to be his left knee. but all the bracing is on his right knee.

 

[STL fan in MN]

My first thought was that perhaps the pic was reversed. Various social media apps seem to do that - takes the pic as a mirror so it gets reversed. You can tell if it’s reversed if there’s any writing that’s backwards. However, the only writing in the entire pic I found was the handicap “push to open” sign...and it’s correct. So that tells me that the big brace is on the right knee, not the left. Odd. The mystery deepens...

 

[Mike Liut]

The bolded is exactly what I was thinking. Blues said he reinjured his knee, which was reported by the Blues to be his left knee. but all the bracing is on his right knee.

Hmm, that doesn’t make any sense. Not sure what the reasoning is

 

[Meatball]

I hope for a full recovery by December of next year, maybe even later. No need to rush it at all.

 

[ZigZagBluesFan]

I went and watched the videos of his injury from last season and it's definitely the left knee he injured so those reports are correct.

It's very odd that he has a bigger stabilization brace on his right leg in this picture.

Strange!

 

[MissouriMook]

The only explanation I can come up with is that they found something they felt they needed to clean up when they harvested the PT from his right knee to get them both done at the same time. It wouldn't be something the team would necessarily publicize, and it wouldn't necessarily be a concern as far as his ability to get back to his "new" 100% by next September. Still, if something like that did go down, the cat is pretty much out of the bag with this photo and it would probably be best for all parties involved if they just came clean about it.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Halloween costume?

 

[Oberyn]

No wonder Fabbri re-injured his knee so quickly, the doctor's been operating on the wrong leg this whole time

 

[stl76]

Illuminati confirmed.

 

[Ranksu]

No wonder Fabbri re-injured his knee so quickly, the doctor's been operating on the wrong leg this whole time

I was coming to say same thing. Look how poor Fabbri's face is. 'damn another surgery and again the wrong leg'.

 

[67Blues]

I remember that when I blew my knee out, the doctor came in during prep, talk to me, and then took out a sharpy and put a big "X" on my good knee and wrote "NO" under it. Made me laugh at the time, but I came to realize that it wasn't a joke at all. Sadly, I came back too early too, and my first game back, blew it out again. Should have listened to the doctors.

 

[Mike Liut]

I just don’t get what the big rush is when coming off ACL surgery. Why not wait a few extra months just to make sure? Would it have really mattered to him or the Blues if he started playing Jan 1 instead of September? His entire career was ahead of him. What’s another few months?

 

[MissouriMook]

I just don’t get what the big rush is when coming off ACL surgery. Why not wait a few extra months just to make sure? Would it have really mattered to him or the Blues if he started playing Jan 1 instead of September? His entire career was ahead of him. What’s another few months?

You're extrapolating those extra 3-4 months into an assumption that the re-injury would have been avoided. There really isn't any way to know for sure if that would have helped or not.

 

[Mike Liut]

You're extrapolating those extra 3-4 months into an assumption that the re-injury would have been avoided. There really isn't any way to know for sure if that would have helped or not.

Yeah, but id feel a lot better at the 12 month point. The surgeon who did my daughter and hes know to be the best in the business and who probably did Fabbri’s told us that 10 months is the key date. He said the stats go way down if you make it to 10 months. Now this is girls soccer, so im not sure if the stats are revelant to pro hockey, but I think soccer is WAY more dangerous than hockey. Ice is more forgiving than the ground.