2017-18 Kings News/Rumors/Tidbits

[Raccoon Jesus]

Mmm...No.
Kings scored one power play goal and gave up one power play goal, so special teams was pretty much a wash. The Kings lost the series at even strength, getting outscored 6-2. Even if the power play hit at 25%, that's just two more goals. They still would have lost. Maybe they win one game.

Probably true, though I think it's a roundabout continuation of their inability to turn possession into offense.

If a team like the Kings, notoriously bad at drawing penalties, draws 5 in a game vs VGK, they HAVE to win that game. TOtally agree that ES is more important in that series, but 0-5 on the PP in a key game is damning, even if the PK showed up too.

Teams aren't even slightly scared of our offense. if we were the same team we are now but with a deadly PP, it would make a difference.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Knowing that the Canes will probably be dealing, was looking at the Canes roster and it's noteworthy that 2 of the names dangled out there, Skinner and Faulk, were minus 27 and minus 26 this past season...Hannifin minus 20 and many were around mins 8 Justin Williams, and Teravainen and Aho were both pluses...yes, plus / minus is not the greatest stat in the world, but when there is such a large disparity like that, would be a bit of a red flag to really see if they were not working hard enough or played poor defense. Check out Zykov...he finally came alive...33 goals in 63 AHL games...and then 3 goals in 10 games on the Canes and 4 goals in 8 AHL playoff games...40 goals. lol. Still only 23. I wish him well, but if he starts scoring 25 goals in the NHL...I will be kinda pissed! For that matter, looks like Roland McKeown is about to get a shot...3 assists in 10 games....19 PIM. ? Would be great to land any of Teravainen, Lindholm, possibly Rask...and what about Jordan Staal as a third line center? The Kings surely need a top 6 winger...but a third center like Jordan Staal would CREATE third line scoring. Intersting to note how well Eric Staal has played, after he was MEH the last few seasons on the Canes...maybe Jordan would flourish more elsewhere....had 4, 20 goal seasons (29 and 25, 2 of them) with the Pens (only 1 20 goal season in Carolina and 19 this yr) Not bad to add a 6'4" 220 lb center
in our division, for that matter.

canes stats:

Carolina Hurricanes 2017-18 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

 

[lumbergh]

Probably true, though I think it's a roundabout continuation of their inability to turn possession into offense.

If a team like the Kings, notoriously bad at drawing penalties, draws 5 in a game vs VGK, they HAVE to win that game. TOtally agree that ES is more important in that series, but 0-5 on the PP in a key game is damning, even if the PK showed up too.

Teams aren't even slightly scared of our offense. if we were the same team we are now but with a deadly PP, it would make a difference.

Two things there. Say the Kings score two power play goals that game and win. That puts them at >20% for the four games, which is pretty good. Yay! They are still down three games to one. They still almost certainly lose the series.

The other thing is that the Kings couldn’t even get out of their zone with possession for long stretches of the series, especially games 1 & 2. Yes they couldn’t produce when they had the puck too, but the Kings were dominated all over the ice.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Brown, 0 goals, 2 points
Doughty, 0 goals, 1 point
Toffoli, 0 goals, 1 point
Pearson, 1 goal
Martinez, 0 goals, 0 points
Carter, 2 goals, 2 points
Lucic, 0 goals
Gaborik, 0 goals

That's too many guys that play a lot with next to nothing offensively, if not nothing, in the last 2 trips to the playoffs. Lecavalier, Lewis, Schenn, Versteeg, and LaDue have a combined 6 goals in that same time.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Two things there. Say the Kings score two power play goals that game and win. That puts them at >20% for the four games, which is pretty good. Yay! They are still down three games to one. They still almost certainly lose the series.

The other thing is that the Kings couldn’t even get out of their zone with possession for long stretches of the series, especially games 1 & 2. Yes they couldn’t produce when they had the puck too, but the Kings were dominated all over the ice.

I was mostly agreeing with you, just making a general observation. If you're a top-3 defensive team in the league, you take more goals where you can get them. And if we're using the VGK series as a flashpoint, in a series with one-goal margins of victory with only SEVEN goals scored by the opposition, a team that is now going to the finals, two goals is a pretty big f***ing deal, isn't it? Especially given most of the conversation around here is centered around "LOL only scored 3 goals?"

Maybe they still lose the series, but you have to keep teams honest, as well. Maybe a tied game instead of chasing the game changes everyone's legs. Maybe a better power play keeps teams from doing stupid shit knowing it won't hurt them.

The possession point was more about past Kings teams, we're not that team anymore, and I agree what VGK did well most was destroy our clean possession. It was more a point about in the past, Kings teams had near 60% shot attempts, yet had all sorts of scoring issues...those teams would dominate games but be unable to turn positive flow of play into offense. Often, they'd draw a penalty, fall flat on the PP, then get scored on after. I think we all remember that. This series, we did many good things, and drew 5 penalties in a game vs VGK (I'm not sure anyone's done that since but don't care to look), and converted exactly ZERO PPs into offense in a one-goal game. Yes, the PK was nails too, it's just emblematic of their inability to put it all together (as well as a credit to VGK as a team).

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Would be great to land any of Teravainen, Lindholm, possibly Rask...and what about Jordan Staal as a third line center? The Kings surely need a top 6 winger...but a third center like Jordan Staal would CREATE third line scoring. Intersting to note how well Eric Staal has played, after he was MEH the last few seasons on the Canes...maybe Jordan would flourish more elsewhere....had 4, 20 goal seasons (29 and 25, 2 of them) with the Pens (only 1 20 goal season in Carolina and 19 this yr) Not bad to add a 6'4" 220 lb center
in our division, for that matter.

canes stats:

Carolina Hurricanes 2017-18 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

Jordan Staal is the only "legit" top 6 center the Canes can say they have. He's on the lower end of points for top 6 centers (ranked in the 50s for points among centers), but he faces the toughest competition, is excellent defensively, is one of the Canes more physical players, etc. Unless he asks to be traded, I think it's unlikely he moves. Teravainen as well. Only 23, has taken a step in his development every year, and has great chemistry with Aho so would be surprised if he's moved.

IMO, Rask would definitely be available. Lindholm, maybe, but it would have to be a good deal to move him.

Re: Zykov (I snipped that part of your post). I'm still not sold on him. He has shown he can score goals at the AHL level, he has shown a willingness to get to the net, is a big body, and has good hands, but he's not a great skater and will that translate to the NHL. He has to score to be an NHLr as I don't see him being a "grinder". I think he'll get every chance to be on the NHL team next year though so it's in his hands. I expect McKeown will be a #7 D next year unless Faulk gets traded and then he may be a #6.

 

[BigKing]

A hot power play doesn't mean they win the series, but it could definitely change things when you only give up seven in four games.

It's too simple to say "20% equals x goals so they only win one" without allowing for butterfly effect outcomes. Are those goals scored at home/away? Time of game? Momentum etc.

Agree that the chief reason they lost was that they weren't good enough with the DOA power play being an important symptom of the disease. If you can't do jack shit 5 v. 5, you really need to make the power play count.

 

[bouncesonly]

A hot power play doesn't mean they win the series, but it could definitely change things when you only give up seven in four games.

Change what? How not-badly the Kings lose the series?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

It's amazing how many people skip over the nuances of the game.

Shot chart says Kings got dominated, this stat says this, this stat says that etc etc,

The game is not stat driven, it's MUCH MUCH more nuanced than that.

A hot power play by LA ABSOLUTELY changes the complexion of the series, with everything else being equal, there is a HUGE difference in chasing the game, and having a lead in hand, and it has nothing to do with shot charts and stats, but more of confidence and read selection etc,

Everyone is saying, OMG the Kings only scored three goals....that sucks etc,

Vegas ONLY SCORED 7 GOALS, why wasn't anyone saying that's horrid? Because they won the series, if you think a hot LA PPG doesn't net them 3-4 more goals, while at the same time changing the way Vegas had to play, I can't help you.

Vegas has not yet played a similarly defensively juggernaut in LA, and there really aren't many out there that has LA's defensive structure etc, while overall that didn't help them win the series, it wasn't due to defensive instability as it was to offensive instability, and a hot PP absolutely stabilizes an offense.

 

[Sol]

Kings defensive system has done nothing but bone them when it matters the most. It's one thing to play a heavy defensive game and another to make egregious turn overs and never be able to recover from them because no one is attacking.


The reason why we lost that series is because the Kings would dump in the puck and never sustain any pressure for god knows what reason. The line changes during that series was atrocious. And lastly our defense was never applying any pressure and would back off 50/50 pucks.

Vegas only scored 7 goals because of Quick. Not because of our defense. Quick played absolutely phenomenal for most of the series. Whatever game we lost 3-2 he was OK in.

 

[BigKing]

Change what? How not-badly the Kings lose the series?

Pretty much, yes.

Going in to the series, I felt that the Kings could limit their scoring which is why I welcomed the match-up. I didn't think too much of their defense but I obviously underestimated Fleury, who has been amazing.

Kings needed a good power play to have a chance to win the series. When you only score three in four games, the power play isn't the only issue but it is still a big one.

If they win one or two games, maybe Fleury pulls a groin in Game 5 or something. We are a fan base that witnessed an 0-3 comeback but I'm not sure how many acknowledge or remember how important Stoll knocking Vlasic out of the series was in Game 5. That's the point: if you extend it even one more game, you never know what could happen.

Don't worry though: I'm still firmly in the camp of "they sucked and weren't good enough"; however, I can't say with absolute certainty that a game-winning, power play goal in OT of Game 2 (without Doughty) doesn't change the complexion of the series heading back to LA at 1-1. They still, more than likely, lose the series in 5 or 6 but it could be different.

The biggest issue in the series was lack of scoring, right? The concept here is that if you are going to be trash 5v5, you better have a good power play. The fact that they couldn't score in either fashion just drives home the fact that they need a lot of help in this regard, but also that a PP unit with the talent the Kings can put out there shouldn't be so pathetic.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Pretty much what Big King said, but more politically correct

 

[KingsFan7824]

It's amazing how many people skip over the nuances of the game.

Shot chart says Kings got dominated, this stat says this, this stat says that etc etc,

The game is not stat driven, it's MUCH MUCH more nuanced than that.

A hot power play by LA ABSOLUTELY changes the complexion of the series, with everything else being equal, there is a HUGE difference in chasing the game, and having a lead in hand, and it has nothing to do with shot charts and stats, but more of confidence and read selection etc,

Everyone is saying, OMG the Kings only scored three goals....that sucks etc,

Vegas ONLY SCORED 7 GOALS, why wasn't anyone saying that's horrid? Because they won the series, if you think a hot LA PPG doesn't net them 3-4 more goals, while at the same time changing the way Vegas had to play, I can't help you.

Vegas has not yet played a similarly defensively juggernaut in LA, and there really aren't many out there that has LA's defensive structure etc, while overall that didn't help them win the series, it wasn't due to defensive instability as it was to offensive instability, and a hot PP absolutely stabilizes an offense.

It's not just that they won the series, it's how they won. They only had 7 goals, but they had better chances. They had more chances. They had more consistent chances. Even when the Kings had a lead, they not only lost it in the 3rd period on home ice, but then they then lost the game in the 3rd period on home ice, in what was all but a must win game. Soft defense, and even a bad goal against Neal, a similar goal that went in a few too many times between Quick's 5-hole during the season. They struggled all year at home against Pacific teams though, so, that was probably inevitable.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Kings are still clearly a very competent defensive team, from Quick all the way up.

The Kings had a smoking hot PP in 2011 against the Canucks, and still lost. A hot PP alone rarely wins series.

 

[lumbergh]

And just to clarify, no one is arguing that,

What they are saying is that a hot Kings PP, could very well have turned the series, Kings didn't play with much confidence, and that affects your game just as much as an injury does....

A hot Kings PP means maybe Vegas is chasing the game, maybe the Kings are challenging more on 50/50 plays etc,

THATs the argument.

Nice to see that you’ve moved from ABSOLUTELY to maybe maybe. See, nuance.

 

[BigKing]

I just want to make it clear that I don't think the PP failed due to bad luck or a lack of bounces: the Kings power play simply failed to show up much like the offense failed to show up at even strength.

On a different topic, I know KF7824 has hammered on it all year, but the Kings have got to be better at home against the WC and, in particular, the Pacific.

 

[BigKing]

As someone who agreed with the original premise, I know it boils down to "If the Kings scored more goals, they would have done better". I just had the power play as a big key to the series for me and the Kings completely blew it. With how bad things were 5v5, the power play being equally as bad--if not worse--was extremely frustrating and just reignites one of the things that pisses me off about this team: the power play.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Just deleted about 3 pages of dog shit posts and 5 good ones.

Go outside, get some fresh air, grab a beer, then come back and discuss like grownups.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If anyone is interested in engaging in phone sex with Kings players, here is your opportunity!

 

[KingsHockey24]

If anyone is interested in engaging in phone sex with Kings players, here is your opportunity!

I can talk to senpai?

 

[regulate]

 

[Sol]

Loyalty and character tho.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Here's more from Rosen on Ferreira's departure. He was with the Minnesota North Stars back in the day, so it makes sense for him to go back to where he started.



I wonder what Dave Taylor is up to...

 

[King'sPawn]

Wonder who will replace him.

 

[kingsfan28]

A hot power play doesn't mean they win the series, but it could definitely change things when you only give up seven in four games.

It's too simple to say "20% equals x goals so they only win one" without allowing for butterfly effect outcomes. Are those goals scored at home/away? Time of game? Momentum etc.

Agree that the chief reason they lost was that they weren't good enough with the DOA power play being an important symptom of the disease. If you can't do jack **** 5 v. 5, you really need to make the power play count.

An example of how far a good pp can carry you is the 2016 Sharks. Every GWG was a pp goal in the beat down they gave us and they road their pp all the way to the Cup finals. Once the Pens eliminated the pp, the Sharks had nothing.