2016 NHL Entry Draft Discussion - June 24,25 - Leafs 7 weeks to 1st. Overall

[ErnieLeafs]

The issue is you seem to lean heavily towards Windsor players over other players around the same spot, with regularity. It has nothing to do with Londoners pushing their players, it's always "Windsor versus the world" with you. You almost always reject any criticism of a Windsor player, and rarely (if ever) take another person's opinion of a Windsor player being lower as anything other than "silly" or "wrong".

Your views on Stanley being a great example.

If I was alone in the woods on it, I would have egg on my face, yeah?

There's a reason Stanley went from a late round project to a 1st round pick.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

I would use Washington's 2nd on Filip Gustavsson. That's my target this year. Has the mind and athleticism, and is a prospect we can stow away in a pro league to get solid starts and development.

Next year I'm looking at DiPietro and Skinner with our 1st, being that I believe it will be after 10.

 

[The Magic Man]

If I was alone in the woods on it, I would have egg on my face, yeah?

There's a reason Stanley went from a late round project to a 1st round pick.

I think you do push the Windsor kids as well, but usually only the one s that deserve it. You don't tend to be too wrong about where they're drafted. Stanley will go in our ball park of picks for sure. That size with his skating is worth the gamble that all picks are when your taking kids from 25 on.

Also Brown will be a top 15 selection if I had to guess. I don't see where your wrong, just defensive about it.

 

[theIceWookie]

If I was alone in the woods on it, I would have egg on my face, yeah?

There's a reason Stanley went from a late round project to a 1st round pick.

Yep, because there are scouts who still believe that shutdown dmen still have a place in this game. Frankly I don't agree, and in a few years time some team will regret it if they take Stanley in the first round. The guy isn't first round material. He doesn't have high end skating, and his transitional game is lacking. Maybe I'm wrong (which I'll fully admit if you want to remind me in a few years, bring it up), but I don't think he has any business being in the top 30.

And my point was you certainly have a bias, one you can't even see. You constantly push Windsor players over non-Windsor players, sometimes with not much legitimate justification for it.

Sometimes you're right though. You seem to be trending towards being right with Sergachev being potentially the best dmen in the draft. I'll give you credit for basically being the first to state that. And you were always right about Brown (which I never really disagreed with but I digress)

 

[Rielly4]

Matthews vs Laine is very hard because Laine clearly sticks out more in games offensively as hes so big and skilled and his shot is absolutely lethal...

But to me Matthews plays his position up the middle very well and he also has a ton of skill and a great shot that should score him many goals at the NHL level.

I think Laine will hit 50 goals in his career but Matthews will be a consistent 1st line C that drives his line every night.

Nylander-Matthews-Marner could potentially be a lethal 1st line one day...

I take Matthews but i cringe at missing out on an elite talent with elite size like Laine.

 

[Morgs]

Yep, because there are scouts who still believe that shutdown dmen still have a place in this game. Frankly I don't agree, and in a few years time some team will regret it if they take Stanley in the first round. The guy isn't first round material. He doesn't have high end skating, and his transitional game is lacking. Maybe I'm wrong (which I'll fully admit if you want to remind me in a few years, bring it up), but I don't think he has any business being in the top 30.

And my point was you certainly have a bias, one you can't even see. You constantly push Windsor players over non-Windsor players, sometimes with not much legitimate justification for it.

Sometimes you're right though. You seem to be trending towards being right with Sergachev being potentially the best dmen in the draft. I'll give you credit for basically being the first to state that. And you were always right about Brown (which I never really disagreed with but I digress)

I don't think skating is his real problem. For a guy his size, he's pretty decent.

His biggest issue is puck handling. As I remember someone stating 'He handles the puck like a live grenade'. Defense are so important for transition, and I don't see players like Stanley being overly successful in that, which would make him a relatively useless defenseman.

 

[Trapper]

Matthews vs Laine is very hard because Laine clearly sticks out more in games offensively as hes so big and skilled and his shot is absolutely lethal...

But to me Matthews plays his position up the middle very well and he also has a ton of skill and a great shot that should score him many goals at the NHL level.

I think Laine will hit 50 goals in his career but Matthews will be a consistent 1st line C that drives his line every night.

Nylander-Matthews-Marner could potentially be a lethal 1st line one day...

I take Matthews but i cringe at missing out on an elite talent with elite size like Laine.

Both are great players but you only get one.
2009, Tavares # 1, Hedman no. 2.
Or Ovi 1, Malkin 2.
I'm not comparing just saying all these players contribute to a franchises success.
At this point I still choose Matthews.

 

[Brewsky]

Matthews vs Laine is very hard because Laine clearly sticks out more in games offensively as hes so big and skilled and his shot is absolutely lethal...

But to me Matthews plays his position up the middle very well and he also has a ton of skill and a great shot that should score him many goals at the NHL level.

I think Laine will hit 50 goals in his career but Matthews will be a consistent 1st line C that drives his line every night.

Nylander-Matthews-Marner could potentially be a lethal 1st line one day...

I take Matthews but i cringe at missing out on an elite talent with elite size like Laine.

It's not hard for me at all. Laine to me reminds me of Heatley, a guy who needs another to drive the line. I think Poolparty drives a line more than Laine does. Laine's flashiness though is fogging up alot of lenses, imo it's Matthews #1 AINEC.

2/3 is the real discussion and who will be better between Pool and Laine as I feel Pool has elite skating, don't know how open Laine can get on the smaller ice and more sticks in the way. He has a violent, violent shot though.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Man next years draft has a lot of swedes apparently.

 

[MJ65]

Another good game by Matthews, was really great in his own zone

 

[SeenSchenn2]

Taken from another thread: https://cdn.streamable.com/video/mp4-mobile/zssm.mp4

Highlights of Matthews from today. That speed, transition, and hockey sense is amazing.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Yep, because there are scouts who still believe that shutdown dmen still have a place in this game. Frankly I don't agree, and in a few years time some team will regret it if they take Stanley in the first round. The guy isn't first round material. He doesn't have high end skating, and his transitional game is lacking. Maybe I'm wrong (which I'll fully admit if you want to remind me in a few years, bring it up), but I don't think he has any business being in the top 30.

And my point was you certainly have a bias, one you can't even see. You constantly push Windsor players over non-Windsor players, sometimes with not much legitimate justification for it.

Sometimes you're right though. You seem to be trending towards being right with Sergachev being potentially the best dmen in the draft. I'll give you credit for basically being the first to state that. And you were always right about Brown (which I never really disagreed with but I digress)

Not sure I've pushed a Spitfire over another player without him having the chops to back it up. The only Spits I've wanted drafted by the Leafs in my time here have been obvious: Hall, Henrique, Fowler, Ryan (less obvious, busted), Ellis, Khoklachev (looking like he may make the jump), and the trio this year (two top 10-12 picks and a developing/rising D-man).

Not sure, other than Ryan, where I would've suggested taking a less talented player out of that group. Ryan was a 2nd that I was cool with in the 2nd/3rd round. Koko was a guy I wanted instead of Biggs, along with Puempel.

Is there a situation to back up that I push Spits over clearly more talented players? I don't really see any.

Edit: Pardon my omission of liking Rychel. But.... He was picked before we had an opportunity, and justifiably so.

You're going to have a hard time backing this up. I'm not unreasonably ranking these kids. Not at all. The hyperbole you spewed is off base. Maybe the brass of the Windsor org. Just knows talent, and develops it well.

If only the resident Knights had the piss taken out of them like I do. Then again, the mob is never attacked by the minority.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Yep, because there are scouts who still believe that shutdown dmen still have a place in this game. Frankly I don't agree, and in a few years time some team will regret it if they take Stanley in the first round. The guy isn't first round material. He doesn't have high end skating, and his transitional game is lacking. Maybe I'm wrong (which I'll fully admit if you want to remind me in a few years, bring it up), but I don't think he has any business being in the top 30.

And my point was you certainly have a bias, one you can't even see. You constantly push Windsor players over non-Windsor players, sometimes with not much legitimate justification for it.

Sometimes you're right though. You seem to be trending towards being right with Sergachev being potentially the best dmen in the draft. I'll give you credit for basically being the first to state that. And you were always right about Brown (which I never really disagreed with but I digress)

I have a lot of respect for Ernie's opinions but I agree with pretty much all of this. The Windsor bias is pretty evident in a lot of his prospect faves. Every time he mentions a player now I usually assume (and it usually is the case) that they play for Windsor. I mean even targeting Dipietro already with our first round pick for next year, I didn't even know a thing about the kid or where he ranked but I pretty much assumed he played for the Spits before looking him up and seeing that he did.

I guess it's no different than Swedish fans pushing their guys and Finnish fans pushing Laine and Pulju. As someone with no affiliation to any team or foreign nationality it probably just stands out to me more, since I just want good players period and don't care where they're from.

 

[Znith]

Taken from another thread: https://cdn.streamable.com/video/mp4-mobile/zssm.mp4

Highlights of Matthews from today. That speed, transition, and hockey sense is amazing.

Thanks for that!

His hockey IQ is extremely high. Always in the right position, moving without the puck, and some great back checks there. Also, that behind the back pass to the open wing was pretty slick. I can see the Kopitar comparison for sure.

 

[Kiwi]

I would use Washington's 2nd on Filip Gustavsson. That's my target this year. Has the mind and athleticism, and is a prospect we can stow away in a pro league to get solid starts and development.

Next year I'm looking at DiPietro and Skinner with our 1st, being that I believe it will be after 10.

I don't know about the goalie thing next year there are some pretty nice Dmen around most likely.

Foote for 1 mocks have him going around the early teens so that could be the way we go instead.

I agree with you on Gustavsson but we may need to trade up the Caps pick to get him which I'm absolutely on board with.

Could trade #31 down to get Gustavsson and get more picks. Analytics people would love that more shots at it. Where you would put everybody down the road is another matter

 

[4thline]

The Leafs philosophy seems to be that around the late end of the first round, that the draft becomes kind of a crapshoot and that quality is a lot harder to judge, so they'd rather take quantity and give themselves more opportunity to hit. Personally I'd agree with them.

I think it's way too early to say that we have a set piece philosophy. Personally I think if anything our approach is a fantastic hybrid of analytics+hunters trained eyes identifying tiers with the organization putting a value each of those tiers and reacting based on who's on the board, and where/ how far they think the dropoffs are. Utility and indifference curve type thinking.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Taken from another thread: https://cdn.streamable.com/video/mp4-mobile/zssm.mp4

Highlights of Matthews from today. That speed, transition, and hockey sense is amazing.

Awesome. His skating and passing ability is top notch. After 2 minutes they showed a US PP and Matthews and everything was going through AM.

 

[4thline]

Also would love Mascherin at 27-31. People have him pegged right, skilled pitbull that can score. I don't see him as a line driver but as a highly versatile plug and play 20 goal middle 6er.

 

[Riellyfan04]

Taken from another thread: https://cdn.streamable.com/video/mp4-mobile/zssm.mp4

Highlights of Matthews from today. That speed, transition, and hockey sense is amazing.

god, he's playing with some terrible players. They couldn't even finish those passes Matthews was giving them... Cant wait to see him and Marner on the same line

 

[SeenSchenn2]

god, he's playing with some terrible players. They couldn't even finish those passes Matthews was giving them... Cant wait to see him and Marner on the same line

Jordan Schroeder and Pat Maroon, right?

 

[Stats01]

Jordan Schroeder and Pat Maroon, right?

Jordan Schroeder another great Canucks draft pick lol

 

[Riellyfan04]

Jordan Schroeder and Pat Maroon, right?

wonder why Matthews can't get any more points, his mates suck.. Imagine having a legit nhler on his wing, matthews would put much better numbers..

 

[Knies iT]

Jordan Schroeder and Pat Maroon, right?

He's playing with Schroeder and Vatrano.

 

[bobermay]

TOR 1st: C Auston Matthews (6'02"/194/1997) - USA - NLA
PIT 1st: LD Kale Clague (6'00"/179/1998) - CANADA - WHL
TOR 2nd: RD Fredereic Allard (6'01"/179/1997) - CANADA - QMJHL
WAS 2nd: G Filip Gustavsson (6'02"/185/1998) - SWEDEN - SHL/SuperElit
TOR 3rd: C/LW Janne Koukkanen (6'01"/179/1998) - FINLAND - Jr. A SM-Liiga
NJD 3rd: C/RW Cliff Pu (6'01"/187/1998) - CANADA - OHL
TOR 4th: RD Filip Berglund (6'03/209/1997) - SWEDEN - SuperElit
COL 4th: LD Kristaps Zile (6'01"/174/1997) - LATVIA - MHL/KHL
TOR 5th: LW Dmitri Sokolov (6'01"/205/1998) - RUSSIA - OHL
TOR 6th: G Connor Ingram (6'01"/194/1997) - CANADA - WHL
STL 6th: RW William Knierim (6'03"/218/1998) - USA - USHL
TOR 7th: RD William Pethrus (6'02"/183/1997) - SWEDEN - SuperElit

 

[notdoneyet]

Not to knock Laine but watched the game today and
The only thing I saw from him was two big blasts on the power play
Not saying he won't be a good goal scorer in the NHL it just
Seems to me he is one dimensional especially playing with two
Good players on his line

Matthews seemed like he controlled more of the game but I wasn't impressed with his
Sense of urgency when they were trying for the tying goal

Also you put Matthews with two good players and I think he would look. Better