OT: 2016 Football Thread I: Giants bring back Beatty

[Hunter Gathers]

Another stiff LB and TE, who also has iffy hands. *sigh* Good ol day-3-JR strikes again, huh?...At least Perkins will keep this from being a total waste. Loved what Reece got out of day two, and I'm content with Apple the prospect; even though I'm still not happy with having to take him 10th overall.

All in all I'm excited to see what comes of this draft, even if I have my complaints. But now we have no choice but to trade for Anthony Davis, right?

Adams was actually very highly rated. A lot of folks had him as a 3rd round pick. I like the talent, there, but I felt that there were other needs.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I agree with almost all you said here, but I think your grades are a bit harsh on Apple and Goodson. Goodson is a good depth pick, Apple has skills and they must have really liked him. And the whole 'they could have traded down' talk that others said are offbase too. Maybe they knew the Bucs were going CB. Remember, Dallas was interested in Mcilrath !

I'm actually a big Apple fan. I have been defending the pick quite a bit. I just think that we could have traded down a few spots and picked up an extra pick.

But JR does not trade down. Ever. He's never once traded down in his history as a GM.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Jordan Raanan ‏@JordanRaanan 10m10 minutes ago
Ben McAdoo on right side of OLine: 'The story has yet to be written' #giants

Ralph Vacchiano ‏@RVacchianoNYDN 12m12 minutes ago
McAdoo said the Giants would add an O-lineman "if the right player shows up."

Mac's got his Reese Speak going.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Marc Ross said the Giants will be targeting 12-15 UDFAs. Not usually bringing in that amount. Likely due to change in coaching philosophy. Love to hear that. Bring them on!

 

[Bluenote13]

I'm actually a big Apple fan. I have been defending the pick quite a bit. I just think that we could have traded down a few spots and picked up an extra pick.

But JR does not trade down. Ever. He's never once traded down in his history as a GM.

Sather has never traded down in round one either.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Sather has never traded down in round one either.

I don't get it. Particularly in the NFL. Could use more picks. In a mediocre draft like this where there is not a lot of top end talent but a ton of depth, it made a lot of sense to trade down.

 

[cgf]

Adams was actually very highly rated. A lot of folks had him as a 3rd round pick. I like the talent, there, but I felt that there were other needs.

Really? He looks stiff in clips, and it seems like there's folks questioning his hands. Usually that's a pretty disastrous combo in a pass catcher.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Really? He looks stiff in clips, and it seems like there's folks questioning his hands. Usually that's a pretty disastrous combo in a pass catcher.

Far from stiff. Breaks a ton of tackles, actually. Broke 10 tackles in only 28 catches. Great blocker, very fast 40, big time size.

Remember, he wasn't asked to catch a lot of South Carolina. Just wasn't his game. Outstanding blocker, though. One of the best in the entire draft.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/02/27/nfl-scouting-combine-top-te-standouts/

He's great value. My main problem with him is that I don't see the need for another TE with Tye and Lacosse. And, hell, Donnell.

 

[cgf]

Tye and Donnelly are crap, and I don't even remember Lacosse seeing the field, so if we got a weapon at TE and would actually use him, I'd love that. But I'm doubtful that that's what happened here.

I know the kid tested well, but he just doesn't look very smooth/athletic in his clips. I get that most TEs aren't going to run like gazelles, but I'm just not seeing that game speed and fluidity to make an impact if his hands aren't gunna be automatic in traffic.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Tye is not crap. At all. That's flat out incorrect.

Donnell is a solid back-up. Don't want him as a starter, though.

 

[bernmeister]

The Jets have no QB.
So they are dead in the water and have zero chance of competing for a title.
Keep picking them until one works out.

They totally effed up this situation
they should have grabbed Lynch, he guy with higher potential, with their 1st, then best available, and the rest of the draft is presumably close to the same

Instead this damn win now mentality went with the 'berg
we could get lucky, but this is a huge mistake, watch
Lynch will turn into another Marino.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

It's not even necessarily taking Lynch due to higher potential. It's more that if they are going to take a QB, you take one in the first round to get the 5th year option. I don't understand taking Lee over Lynch if you were going to take a plug like Hackenberg in the second.

 

[NYGBleedBlueNYR]

Really interested to see who Reese gets at UDFA. Vernon Adams as a development QB would be a good get imo. Any possible OL, DL, WR, LB could make the team as an UDFA

 

[Hunter Gathers]

The Giants have already inked a ton of UDFAs so far. Wow.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Jordan Raanan has a running list up so far:

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2016/04/2016_giants_undrafted_free_agent_signings.html

 

[Hunter Gathers]

That list is missing Melvin Lewis and Andrew Adams. We are at 10 already.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Make that 11. Josh Woodrum (QB) just signed.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I don't agree that they could have traded back. If this is the guy they wanted (which it seems like it was) and the next QB to go was going to be either him or Cook that just opens them up to being exploited by having another team then trade up ahead of the new spot. The addition of a 6th round pick or whatever they would get to trade back a few spots is not very meaningful and worth the risk given that it's a guy who will most likely be cut before the season even starts.

That said this guy's college numbers are atrocious so hopefully they see something they can work with and improve. It's not like they were the only one who had him ranked around there. He was pretty much always the 4th/5th QB listed and as a 2nd/3rd round type spot. I'd expect they want him to sit for a couple of years behind Fitzpatrick or some vet before they even think about using him.

And I don't think it really tells you anything about their thoughts on Petty. Petty was a 4th round pick and not really considered by anyone to be anywhere close to ready. He was more of a real boom/bust developmental type pick with a low likelihood of reaching his ceiling with the hope that if he doesn't get there he can be an inexpensive long term backup. The Rams took Mannion before Petty went last year and then they traded up to get Goff this year. Saints took Grayson in the 3rd last year and they were linked to potentially Lynch/Hackenberg too. Teams don't really ever bank on those mid round guys ever becoming "the guy"

It wasnt just round 2. It was round 1 too and they definitely were fine. Teams within 2 or 3 picks traded up to get players at completely different positions and none of them needed what the jets wrre taking. The jets wrre likely talking to houston round 1. Shoulda been a no brainer to move back there. Not going to flip over a 6th but it seems like they reaaaally were poor at playing the draft game and maximizing pick value when easy opportunities arose. Yea you could argue maybe Houston or wash takes the olb if the jets trade with Houston. I just dont get that feeling at all. Even moreso for hack. You dont piss away a 2nd on a huge question mark and leave big OL holes, TE, CB, etc if you like the kid you just drafted. Rams traded up bc they didn't like their chances with their guy just as the jets feel with petty. Except the rams didn't gamble on a guy who cant hit simple passes

 

[nyr2k2]

For the Jets I liked the two LBs. Not a huge fan of the Hackenberg selection but I'll wait and see. A couple reaches in there. The punter was a surprise--not that they picked one, but that they picked him before Hackett (although they did sign Hackett as a UDFA). Loved the pick of Peake.

Jets up to 14 UDFAs by my count.

 

[17futurecap]

For the Jets I liked the two LBs. Not a huge fan of the Hackenberg selection but I'll wait and see. A couple reaches in there. The punter was a surprise--not that they picked one, but that they picked him before Hackett (although they did sign Hackett as a UDFA). Loved the pick of Peake.

Jets up to 14 UDFAs by my count.

Wonder if they will cut Folk, save some money, they signed the Duke kicker who was good on field goals, but struggled on kick offs.

 

[broadwayblue]

Is there a limit to the # of UDFA a team can sign? I see that the Skins signed 15 so far, not that I've ever heard of any of these guys.

Anthony Lanier, DE, Texas A&M

Ejiro Ederaine, LB Fresno State

Kenneth Springer, DB, NM Highlands

Reggie Diggs, WR, Richmond

Tevin Carter, S, Utah

Dominick Jackson, OT, Alabama

Michael Cooper, TE, Indiana

Maurice Harris, WR, Cal

Geno Matias-Smith, DB, Alabama

Joe Kerridge, FB, Michigan

Kelly Mason, LS, Kentucky

Travis Greene, RB, Bowling Green

Joe Gore, OT Clemson

Andre McCullough, WR, Rocky Mountain

 

[nyr2k2]

Doug Middleton, S, Appalachian State
Claude Pelon, DT, Southern Cal
Tom Hackett, P, Utah
Jason VanderLaan, QB/TE, Ferris State
Quenton Bundrage, WR, Iowa Stat
Jalin Marshall, WR/KR, Ohio State
Tarow Barney, DT, Penn State
Robby Anderson, WR, Temple
Kyle Friend, C/G, Temple
Lawrence Thomas, DL, Michigan State
Ross Martin, K, Duke
Daniel Sobolewski, K, Albright
Romar Morris, RB, North Carolina
David Hedelin, OL, Purdue

Per The Jets Blog.

 

[BroadwayStorm]

Far from stiff. Breaks a ton of tackles, actually. Broke 10 tackles in only 28 catches. Great blocker, very fast 40, big time size.

Remember, he wasn't asked to catch a lot of South Carolina. Just wasn't his game. Outstanding blocker, though. One of the best in the entire draft.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/02/27/nfl-scouting-combine-top-te-standouts/

He's great value. My main problem with him is that I don't see the need for another TE with Tye and Lacosse. And, hell, Donnell.

None of these TE's can block like Adams.

I don't think Lacosse is much of a blocker either. Tye and Donnell certainly are not great blockers.

 

[BroadwayStorm]

How did you have Peake ECL?

Peake is weird in that he measures really well and comes from an incredible program that has produced NFL star wide receivers. And their coach even guarantees it he was a former WR's coach. And he says at the very least his guys go to the NFL already knowing the fundamentals of the position. And DeAndre Hopkins, Sammy Watkins and Martavis Bryant put exclamation points on those claims. They are all studs. Yet Peake seems to be an exception. I don't know I didn't see him play. But hes got tools yet a ton of knockers.

 

[BroadwayStorm]

Draft Winners, in my opinion:

Jacksonville. Very possible that they ended up with the two best players in the draft with Ramsey and Jack. Ngakoue and Day should be able to contribute from Day 1 in the pass rush. They needed defense and they got a whole lot of it. If Jack stays healthy, this defense might be able to do a complete 180 by the end of Year 1.

Chicago. Floyd is going to be a player and Whitehair/Bullard were great value picks in Round 2 and 3. Not sure about their later picks, but there's a lot of names there and they should be able to walk away with a guy or two.

Bengals. Jackson and Boyd were solid picks. I'm not sure why Billings and Westerman fell so low, but I have a strong feeling that at least one of them will pan out for Cinci. Billings is an animal physically and I have little doubt in his ability to stuff the run. Kid is strong as an ox.

Browns. So many picks that you gotta feel that they're going to walk away with a good crop of youngsters. This is a draft strategy more rebuilding teams should utilize. Coleman/Ogbah/Nassib is a good grab for early picks, as well.

Houston. It's clear that this team wants to compile a ton of skill players with big play talent. Nuk/Fuller/Miller/Ervin is going to be an absolute handful to cover. This could crash and burn, but I appreciate a team having the balls to build a roster like they have. Gonna be fun team to watch.

Minnesota. Strong value picks all around. Treadwell at 23 is a steal, as is Alexander at 54 and Brothers at 160. I really like where this franchise is headed.

I was looking at the Browns roster... WOW. That team is on paper not as bad as you would think. The Ravens and Steelers are weak this season and Cinci is still the best team in the division. But if RG3 suddenly revives his career and becomes the player he was supposed to be that team will make the playoffs. And that is without their best offensive player who is perpetually suspended because he cant keep his nose clean. Damn shame and waste of an amazing talent. The Browns used a ton of Sabremetrics in this draft and loaded on production. I think with their style of division and the weather in the afc north I think production is more important than pure skill and talent. They got a ton of strong players too with lower bust potential.

Minnesota is ready to win a superbowl if they want to. They now have a complete team.

Bengals continue to reload their team. They seem to draft starters in every round.
Too bad they can't find a quarterback.

Chicago had an awesome draft. Awesome.

Jacksonville got the best player in the draft but I don't trust Myles Jacks knee. No less than I trust Jaylon Smiths. They have a ton of talent now and their division is up for grabs. I just don't trust that team the loser culture is going to take a lot to eradicate. Even last year they had talent and couldn't win. Their QB is the most underrated young quarterback in the last 20 years. But not for long.

I had not paid attention to Houston. They really do have a ton of big play ability in that offense. If Osweiler pans out which I'm still kind of iffy about they should win that division with that defense.