Prospect Info: 2016-17 Rangers Prospects Thread #2 (Stats/Info/Links in Post #1; Updated 1.9.17)

[Levitate]

Really not getting the Ronning choice. He's 5-foot-9, not built and cannot score. Did Cliff Ronning agree not to score against the Rangers in the 1994 SCF in return for us drafting his then not-yet-born son?

He was a 7th round pick who scored 31 goals and 59 points in 67 games in his draft year.

I'd be annoyed if he was a 3rd round pick or higher but for a 7th round pick..

 

[Irishguy42]

Why are we complaining about Ronning? He's a 7th round pick. Anything good he does is gravy.

 

[n8]

I totally appreciate all the posters who contribute to add content and value to this thread!

 

[cwede]

Morrison is another player who just has not impressed, after being regarded as a steal by the Rangers ... He was very bad at the prospect camp.

can't say i recall the comments from July camp

but certainly, it was noticeable and unexpected, that at Traverse City, he only dressed for Game 1
Assumed he might be hurt,

but he was sent right back to Juniors,
not even a day at NYR Camp and then HWP Camp, unlike the other drafted Junior Prospects

he's putting up some ##s,
but so far hasn't differentiated himself from past "WHL smurf scorer" misfires such as St.Croix and McColgan.

Will he?
Will Ronning?

“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results†credited to Albert Einstein

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

can't say i recall the comments from July camp

but certainly, it was noticeable and unexpected, that at Traverse City, he only dressed for Game 1
Assumed he might be hurt,

but he was sent right back to Juniors,
not even a day at NYR Camp and then HWP Camp, unlike the other drafted Junior Prospects

he's putting up some ##s,
but so far hasn't differentiated himself from past "WHL smurf scorer" misfires such as St.Croix and McColgan.

Will he?
Will Ronning?

“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results” credited to Albert Einstein

I don't think there were comments, but the game he played in Traverse City, completely invisible, you could tell he couldn't handle the step up in competition. Not playing more than one game and being sent back immediately might further back that up.

He plays a very distinct style, as I mentioned and PG Canuck mentioned. He has talent, but unless you are Connor McDavid or Patrick Kane, the game he tries to play will just not work in the NHL or even the AHL. If he can tweak how he plays, play more of a team game, add some weight, contribute more defensively, play simpler, make better decisions, I think he has NHL talent, but unless he tries to do that, I don't think he tops out as more than an okay AHL 3rd liner or something like that.

 

[Beacon]

Here is one of the best responses as to why some of us still this check, post, and look for updates in this thread regardless of how uninspiring our prospect pool might be. No doubt about it, outside of Shesty, it is very hard being excited about anyone else.

Graves has exactly .5 per game as a 21-year-old defenseman. He's huge, same size as McIlrath. His straight away speed is the same as McIlrath (which was always good), but Graves is much better than Dylan at twists and turns, which is where Dylan was prevented from being a top-4 NHLer. Graves need to do positioning a little better defensively, but it's not awful. Needs to release his shots faster, but he can do it. He could definitely be a top-4 defenseman with the third pair as his floor.

 

[Beacon]

So, explain a player like Dale Weise. And Weise wasn't even that great of a defensive player.

Weise was a tough guy and a late bloomer. It happens, but it's very rare. It's really the angle from which you're looking at it. If you look at NHL players, it seems like there's a relatively decent number of players who weren't good in the Juniors who made it. But that's because if you look only at the NHLers, you miss all the thousands of similar players who did not become NHLers.

This is why you never discount the possibility of a kid making it, he can always be a late bloomer, but the reality is that you can judge the odds of the kid making it. Think of it this way, the Avs can beat the Pens on any given night, but you wouldn't bet even money on it. Sure this year Finland lost to Denmark, but it's a rare exception, not the rule.

There will obviously be some late bloomers, but for every kid that becomes a late bloomer, at least a dozen can't even hack it in the AHL.

 

[Matz03]

Graves has exactly .5 per game as a 21-year-old defenseman. He's huge, same size as McIlrath. His straight away speed is the same as McIlrath (which was always good), but Graves is much better than Dylan at twists and turns, which is where Dylan was prevented from being a top-4 NHLer. Graves need to do positioning a little better defensively, but it's not awful. Needs to release his shots faster, but he can do it. He could definitely be a top-4 defenseman with the third pair as his floor.

I like Graves a lot, and agree about his upside. I skipped him in my comment above. He's putting another good year together especially on the offensive front. I also like Kovac's still, but worried bringing him over this early will hurt his development. I meant hard to be excited about prospects in juniors specifically.

I also really like Huska and Wall but these guys are a bit out of mind being goalies, will not likely see them even turn pro for 2-3-4 years. Great to have them in the system though.

 

[Beacon]

He was a 7th round pick who scored 31 goals and 59 points in 67 games in his draft year.

I'd be annoyed if he was a 3rd round pick or higher but for a 7th round pick..

I get it, but why draft someone who's obviously not making it? You still have a chance to grab a player, however low that chance may be, why waste it? Not only did we get Lundqvist in the 7th, we got Huska, Joey Crabb, Holmqvist, Mottau, Todd Marchant, so it's not completely impossible to pull someone in the 7th. I can understand the choice of Randy McNaught, you're trying to get a tough guy. But here you have a small guy with little skill. Imagine Zuccarello with the skill of Glass, but weaker than MZA and not as good offensively as Tanner.

 

[Beacon]

I like Graves a lot, and agree about his upside. I skipped him in my comment above. He's putting another good year together especially on the offensive front. I also like Kovac's still, but worried bringing him over this early will hurt his development. I meant hard to be excited about prospects in juniors specifically.

I also really like Huska and Wall but these guys are a bit out of mind being goalies, will not likely see them even turn pro for 2-3-4 years. Great to have them in the system though.

I agree, the Juniors are pretty terrible for us. Vesey, Butcher, Skjei are in the NHL. Shesterkin in the KHL. Huska, Wall in college. Nieves, Graves, Kovacs, several others in Hartford. What are we dealing with in the Juniors? Gropp, Fontaine, Gettinger, Morrison, Ronning are the only forwards we have there and all have heavy odds against them making the NHL. Only Zboro and Day are worth watching in the Juniors, and neither projects as a team building block.

 

[Levitate]

Feels like the Rangers junior scouting could use some tweaking...

 

[silverfish]

Bracco and Day! BFFs

 

[Matz03]

Feels like the Rangers junior scouting could use some tweaking...

They did announce new WHL scout sometime this summer, it was after the draft I think so we should see a different approach in the upcoming draft. Also changes from scouting in Sweden and Russia? Someone correct me on this.

If you look at players coming out of the WHL, too many swings and misses there,

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Bracco and Day! BFFs

Do you know Bracco or something? I could understand if he was a Rangers prospect that you were excited about, but he's a Leafs prospect, yet you talk about him so much.

Not trying to criticize you, I'm wondering though if you know the guy, which would make a lot more sense.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Talking about Ronning as a wasted pick is very premature, he was pretty much unanimously said to be a good pick at draft day.

I enjoy your updates and thoughts Beacon but i think you are painting a picture which is way too black or white far too often.

 

[silverfish]

Do you know Bracco or something? I could understand if he was a Rangers prospect that you were excited about, but he's a Leafs prospect, yet you talk about him so much.

Not trying to criticize you, I'm wondering though if you know the guy, which would make a lot more sense.

I have one degree of separation. I don't know him personally. But why not root for the kid? He should be a Rangers prospect right now.

Why are we bashing the Ronning pick? That was one of the best value picks of the draft.

 

[Revel]

I have one degree of separation. I don't know him personally. But why not root for the kid? He should be a Rangers prospect right now.

Toronto seems to like 5'10" guys that can get 2PPG in juniors. They got Adam Brooks, too. Adam was sent back to the W for this season...but maybe Bracco has better luck next year in that regard. He's got a bit more physical build than Brooks...so that helps.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Toronto seems to like 5'10" guys that can get 2PPG in juniors. They got Adam Brooks, too. Adam was sent back to the W for this season...but maybe Bracco has better luck next year in that regard. He's got a bit more physical build than Brooks...so that helps.

We had Brooks in development camp. They're good at bringing in these hidden gems (Tolchinsky, Zaitsev, Brooks) but we don't sign them.

If you ever want to get depressed, go look at our 2014 draft.

 

[silverfish]

Toronto seems to like 5'10" guys that can get 2PPG in juniors. They got Adam Brooks, too. Adam was sent back to the W for this season...but maybe Bracco has better luck next year in that regard. He's got a bit more physical build than Brooks...so that helps.

Jeez. That Brooks kid absolutely feasts on the WHL.

 

[Beacon]

Toronto seems to like 5'10" guys that can get 2PPG in juniors. They got Adam Brooks, too. Adam was sent back to the W for this season...but maybe Bracco has better luck next year in that regard. He's got a bit more physical build than Brooks...so that helps.

I'd rather have a 120 point guy than a guy like Tarmo that we got the same round. Always go for talent over all else.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I'd rather have a 120 point guy than a guy like Tarmo that we got the same round. Always go for talent over all else.

We did have him, we just didn't want to offer him a contract.

 

[silverfish]

We did have him, we just didn't want to offer him a contract.

Same with Matt Read.
And Andrej Sustr.

And a bunch of other people I'm sure that I can't remember right now.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Same with Matt Read.
And Andrej Sustr.

And a bunch of other people I'm sure that I can't remember right now.

'Member RJ Umberger?

 

[nyr2k2]

Same with Matt Read.
And Andrej Sustr.

And a bunch of other people I'm sure that I can't remember right now.

We had Sustr in twice but he wanted to play a third year of college.

Read, instead we signed Kyle Jean.

 

[nyr2k2]

'Member RJ Umberger?

That was a bit different.