Prospect Info: 2016-17 Rangers Prospects Thread #2 (Stats/Info/Links in Post #1; Updated 1.9.17)

[Beacon]

If you look at the quality of teams, Shesterkin has beaten teams that are on par with NHL teams as well as on par with SKA, including beating CSKA 3 times. Huska is playing against teams that would never be able to hold up in the NHL, KHL or even the AHL.

Citing that he dominated the USHL is a joke because that is literally the lowest level Junior hockey where prospects play. Everything below is just for amateurs to have fun, not for kids who ever want to play pro.

Just as it's easy to look good playing on a great team, it's easy to look great on an awful team because people will let everything slide. If you're inconsistent and let in a few bad goals, people say you got tired because of the barrage of shots you faced. We all, including myself, gave that excuse to Huska. But whether that holds up and he doesn't give up bad goals if Slovakia didn't suck, we do not know.

It is not comparable to be a KHL All Star vs NCAA goalie with a 2.67 GAA, higher than the other goalie on the same team in a similar number of games. 95% of the players Shesterkin faces in any game are better than the best player on any NCAA squad Huska faces.

Huska is taller than Shesterkin. That's it. Every other skill is advantage Shesterkin.

 

[Kovalev27]

You are dreaming if you think Shestyorkin is beating teams on par with NHL teams. Absolutely dreaming. His team is a tier above every one else first off and the teams he and his team are beating are no where near NHL teams. Absurd man

The USHL is a great development league particularly for D1 schools and huska dominated. Your knowledge on this subject has to be in question with some of these comments man.

Huska also 4 years younger than the "other goalie on the team"

Actually read the article posted about the quality of teams he's beating.

Actually look at a respected NHL guy like Ray Ferraro telling you how good huska is.

To call him an average goalie is garbage.

 

[Graves94]

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-690/ferraro-michel-therrien-deserves-credit-1.647651

Here is the segment where Ferraro talks about Huska, as being a revelation, and a guy who stood out to him during the WJC. It starts at 7:20.

I've been watching the back and forth about Huska and Shesty, and all I can say is that we should be very, that it looks like we have some depth at the goalie position, and I'm not even including Wall, and to a lesser degree Halverston (who doesn't really impress me). I don't know who of these guys will be better, but at least it looks like one of these guys might be a true #1. Very exciting!!

 

[Mac n Gs]

Yeah seriously, the USHL has been churning out talent left and right recently with kids that all excel at the modern NHL game. It's a phenomenal development league

 

[McD37]

Tim Gettinger... he has really solid numbers in OHL, he is up there in points with Katchouk who was drafted way higher than him last year. He has almost same point totals as Senyshyn, who played six games less than him, but is 2015 1st rounder... looks like solid prospect to me. Can anyone tell me more about this player?

 

[Beacon]

You are dreaming if you think Shestyorkin is beating teams on par with NHL teams. Absolutely dreaming. His team is a tier above every one else first off and the teams he and his team are beating are no where near NHL teams. Absurd man

How about at least basic research before posting? CSKA is 1 point behind SKA. They are just as good as SKA. Metalurg is just a couple points behind them, but within striking range. Both teams, maybe a few others, could hold up against NHL teams, particularly the non-playoff ones. I wouldnt be surprised if CSKA and Meta could beat some NHL playoff teams in a 7 game series. Either way, points have both teams about even with SKA.

The USHL is a great development league particularly for D1 schools and huska dominated. Your knowledge on this subject has to be in question with some of these comments man.

Name a league below the USHL that produces NHLers? Do you even know any North American leagues below the USHL? Probably not because they are for amateurs.

USHL is a feeder league for NCAA. Do you know what the odds of a D1 player making the NHL are? 5%. And many USHL players don't even make D1. Plus, USHL is younger than D1. It is undoubtedly true that the USHL is below D1, while D1 is below the ECHL, which is under the AHL, which is weaker than the KHL.

Nor is Shesterkin merely holding up in the KHL. He's an All Star. It's actually harder to be an All Star on a loaded team because nobody wants too many players from 1 squad on the All Star team.

Huska also 4 years younger than the "other goalie on the team"

He's obviously a better prospect than the other goalie. However, your statement was not about future NHL odds, but rather that UCONN today stands no chance without Huska.

Actually read the article posted about the quality of teams he's beating.

They may be phenomenal quality by NCAA standards, but would all get beaten 15-0 or worse if they faced any KHL team. It's the same way people were saying Fogarty's BCHL team was loaded, but look now, what happened to all that load? They were loaded only by BCHL standards.

Actually look at a respected NHL guy like Ray Ferraro telling you how good huska is.

To call him an average goalie is garbage.

I've followed prospects for too long to put blind faith in wlthe random praise of some analyst, respected or not.

 

[Bluenote13]

Gettinger started out hot in his draft year, I actually mentioned him in November 2015 as a possible draft target(until we traded our 1st).

Then he tailed off bigtime, went from possible 1st to definite 5th rounder. Good pick where we got him, even though I liked others at that spot can't fault them for taking him. Though yet again, we picked a falling prospect who was once considered a 'top pick'.

 

[Beacon]

Btw, I like Huska. I like him a lot. Long before Ray Ferraro praised him, if you look at the WJC thread from last year or the subsequent prospect poll, I repeatedly praised Huska. My problem is in comparing him to Shesterkin. It's like comparing Stepan to Crosby: sure Step is very good, but Crosby is elite. Huska is a good prospect. Shesterkin is a blue chipper.

Last year Shesterkin played in the VHL, a league easily superior to NCAA. He was the same age as Huska right now. He gave up just a little over a goal a game. The other 2 goalies on the team played as many games and averaged over a full goal more than The Czar. That's not just being on a great team, that's abusing a very good league with salaries on par with the AHL.

It's possible things will change. After all, 16 years ago our star Swedish goalie prospect was Holmqvist, not Lundqvist. Hank wasn't even our best prospect named Lundqvist. But right now Shesterkin is head and shoulders above Huska.

 

[Kovalev27]

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/a...th-have-short-goalies-officially-gone-extinct

Interesting I was just talking about this regarding Shestyorkin

As much as I like him and beacon believes at 20 and undersized he should be an NHL starter right now, he will have an uphill road to climb to be elite in this league if he's truly 6'0 6'1 even.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Isn't Lundqvist 6'0-6'1?

He will be fine.

 

[nyr2k2]

Isn't Lundqvist 6'0-6'1?

He will be fine.

I mean, Lundqvist is a generational talent. The vast majority of goalies are taller than him.

The point about Shestyorkin's size is legitimate, even if people don't want to hear it. However he's phenomenally athletic and plays an unconventional style that makes him less reliant on pinpoint positioning and taking up all of the net. I don't think it will be a problem for him but to pretend like it's not any type of hurdle for him to overcome is short-sighted, IMO.

 

[FLYLine27*]

I mean, Lundqvist is a generational talent. The vast majority of goalies are taller than him.

The point about Shestyorkin's size is legitimate, even if people don't want to hear it. However he's phenomenally athletic and plays an unconventional style that makes him less reliant on pinpoint positioning and taking up all of the net. I don't think it will be a problem for him but to pretend like it's not any type of hurdle for him to overcome is short-sighted, IMO.

So is Shestyorkin..I don't see the problem.

 

[nyr2k2]

Mods, I will get a new thread up in the AM.

 

[nyr2k2]

Timmy Gettinger potted his 20th goal tonight. He's having a nice season after a very slow start.

The Rangers prospects are well represented in the CHL Top Ten. Regina (Zborovskiy) continues to sit at number one, and we have four other guys on teams that are on the list. It's only Gropp and Ronning's teams that aren't ranked. Even if the kids themselves aren't necessarily having awesome seasons, it's good for them to be part of a winning culture.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I mean, Lundqvist is a generational talent. The vast majority of goalies are taller than him.

The point about Shestyorkin's size is legitimate, even if people don't want to hear it. However he's phenomenally athletic and plays an unconventional style that makes him less reliant on pinpoint positioning and taking up all of the net. I don't think it will be a problem for him but to pretend like it's not any type of hurdle for him to overcome is short-sighted, IMO.

I don't agree.

I think size is a problem for goalies who are shorter than 6'2, but once someone is good, why does it matter?

If you wanted to say we shouldn't draft a project goalie who's under 6'2, I might agree. To say an established very good prospect who's playing as one of the best goalies in the second best league in the world has a hurdle to overcome because of his height would need some good reason why his height will be a problem in his specific case. You could even completely debunk any "too short" argument by saying he's gotten to where he has already, despite being 6'1, so maybe he's already beaten any odds of his height.

 

[nyr2k2]

Being good in the KHL isn't being good in the NHL. It's still a huge jump, despite what some would like you to believe. As I said, I don't think it will pose a problem for him, but there are reasons why you don't see many goalies his size in the world's best league.

 

[Beacon]

Lundqvist is a generational talent.

So is Shestyorkin..I don't see the problem.

I wouldn't bet money on Shesterkin becoming a star, but if he became an All-Star, I wouldn't exactly be surprised. At the age of 20, he outplayed the Finnish goalie who is regarded by the Finnish management as superior to Antti Raanta, one of the top backups in the NHL. Goalies mature later than others, so he has a lot of development ahead of him.

Now, goalies do bust the most. There are plenty of goalies that shined at the lower level and then never made the NHL. Some like Jim Carrey had a good season or two in the NHL, then went away. Look at Tokarsky who was great against us in the 2014 ECF, then disappeared off the map. Still, it's realistic that Shesterkin becomes an NHL All Star.

 

[nyr2k2]

Absolutely. He's a stud prospect and I think he'll become a very good NHL player with the potential to become a real star.

Still, it's far from a certainty. It's so hard to make the NHL and ten times harder to stick. Every minor deficiency in your game becomes magnified when you reach the NHL. It's why something like Shestyorkin's height, while a minor concern, is a concern nonetheless.

Take a guy who is good at everything but is slightly below average skating. Until he proves he can get by at the NHL level, his skating is a concern. Say someone is somewhat weak on the puck. Until he proves it's not a concern at the highest level, it's a concern. Guy is slight of build and short? It's a concern until it's not a concern. With the exception of the true generational talents, your Crosby types, EVERY prospect has some concern attached to them. It's why unless you're someone like Crosby, there's no such thing as a sure thing.

Again, I love Shestyorkin and am very confident that he'll be an excellent player. But he's no sure thing.

 

[Beacon]

His team is a tier above every one else

As I already established, there are at least 2 other comparable teams in the KHL and furthermore, SKA is not too far above the rest of the league. The difference in points from the SKA to the 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th team in the KHL is about the same as we see in the NHL.

But it's true that SKA is either the best or the second-best team in the KHL. Nevertheless, Shesterkin has a .940 SV%. Say what you will, but stopping 94% of shots is stopping 94% of shots. When Halverson played on a loaded OHL team that was beating everyone, he still had only a .913 SV% with 2.63 GAA. Yes, Halvy was winning a ton of games, but he wasn't stopping a ton of shots. Shesterkin is playing on a less dominant team (when compared to other KHL squads), yet his numbers are insane, giving up only a goal and a half per game with 94% of the shots saved.

The other goalie (who beat out Raanta for a spot on the Finnish team) stops only .922 and lost more games in 15 starts than Shesterkin in 34. If the other goalie, who's apparently one of the top 3 Finnish goalies in the world, has a worse GAA, win-loss record and most importantly SV%, then maybe, just maybe, Shesterkin isn't just riding on the back of a strong team.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

As I already established, there are at least 2 other comparable teams in the KHL and furthermore, SKA is not too far above the rest of the league. The difference in points from the SKA to the 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th team in the KHL is about the same as we see in the NHL.

But it's true that SKA is either the best or the second-best team in the KHL. Nevertheless, Shesterkin has a .940 SV%. Say what you will, but stopping 94% of shots is stopping 94% of shots. When Halverson played on a loaded OHL team that was beating everyone, he still had only a .913 SV% with 2.63 GAA. Yes, Halvy was winning a ton of games, but he wasn't stopping a ton of shots. Shesterkin is playing on a less dominant team (when compared to other KHL squads), yet his numbers are insane, giving up only a goal and a half per game with 94% of the shots saved.

The other goalie (who beat out Raanta for a spot on the Finnish team) stops only .922 and lost more games in 15 starts than Shesterkin in 34. If the other goalie, who's apparently one of the top 3 Finnish goalies in the world, has a worse GAA, win-loss record and most importantly SV%, then maybe, just maybe, Shesterkin isn't just riding on the back of a strong team.

Plus it seems like Shesty is a decent part of why SKA is so good. At least this season.

 

[nyr2k2]

Plus it seems like Shesty is a decent part of why SKA is so good. At least this season.

He's definitely a catalyst for their strong play.

 

[nyr2k2]

New thread: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2174569