2016-17 General NHL Fan Talk - Part the Fourth (News n' Scores n' Stuff) ‎

[trick9]

Damn what a steal Mark Scheifele was for the Winnipeg Jets in what was a pretty below average 2011 draft. One of the best centers in the league already.

 

[Hivemind]

Sanford is out 5-6 months for the Blues. Tough break. No one has benefited yet from that cursed Shattenkirk trade.

Even Copley didn't benefit the way he was supposed to. With Grubauer still around, Copley is still going to be stuck in the AHL.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Even Copley didn't benefit the way he was supposed to. With Grubauer still around, Copley is still going to be stuck in the AHL.

I guess you could say Shattenkirk is the real winner of this trade. Played 30 games for us and then he was off to his favourite team.

 

[Sam Spade]

I guess you could say Shattenkirk is the real winner of this trade. Played 30 games for us and then he was off to his favourite team.

I don't know, I think Shattenkirk's playoff performance probably cost him about 2/3 years worth of contract. Not saying 6.5 mil isn't a great payday but pretty rare to see a mid-tier dman only get 4 years.

 

[twabby]

Sucks for the fans I guess but nothing gets under my skin more than millionaire and billionaire owners trying to con taxpayers out of money to build arenas for their toys.

 

[Sam Spade]

Sucks for the fans I guess but nothing gets under my skin more than millionaire and billionaire owners trying to con taxpayers out of money to build arenas for their toys.

Yep.

John Oliver did a brilliant take on the fake way they try to sell this crap. And the way they threaten to leave, and how if they do leave studies show it has ZERO impact on anything in terms of civic pride or city finances.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcwJt4bcnXs

 

[g00n]

Yep.

John Oliver did a brilliant take on the fake way they try to sell this crap. And the way they threaten to leave, and how if they do leave studies show it has ZERO impact on anything in terms of civic pride or city finances.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcwJt4bcnXs

What the hell is "civic pride" in this case and how do you measure that?

On the other hand there are studies of the brain that show elevated dopamine levels and markers of self-esteem following a team win. Of course you take the bad with the good and people may be more depressed the day after a loss.

So these things do affect people, their moods/biology, and possibly how they interact and make decisions...maybe with long term consequences. But it does seem like a scam the way the owners always try to get the fans to pay for stadiums.

 

[Sam Spade]

What the hell is "civic pride" in this case and how do you measure that?

On the other hand there are studies of the brain that show elevated dopamine levels and markers of self-esteem following a team win. Of course you take the bad with the good and people may be more depressed the day after a loss.

So these things do affect people, their moods/biology, and possibly how they interact and make decisions...maybe with long term consequences. But it does seem like a scam the way the owners always try to get the fans to pay for stadiums.

Study was based on how participants in St. Louis handled losing the Rams. People just really didn't care. It didn't make them any more or less proud to be from, or live, in the city, etc. Kids apparently took it the hardest.

I think in today's world where the team is located is really irrelevant. Too easy to watch the games or to get on a message board and chat with like minded fans from all over the world.

 

[g00n]

Study was based on how participants in St. Louis handled losing the Rams. People just really didn't care. It didn't make them any more or less proud to be from, or live, in the city, etc. Kids apparently took it the hardest.

I think in today's world where the team is located is really irrelevant. Too easy to watch the games or to get on a message board and chat with like minded fans from all over the world.

Ok so a survey after the fact. Of course they're going to say they don't care. They've lost teams too many times, so part of it is their natural response and part of it is probably the apathy of the market...even more so given the suckitude of the Rams for the last decade or whatever it's been.

Also, self-reported surveys are notoriously inaccurate. It's very easy to say one thing based on a high-minded concept and then behave quite differently. If the Rams won the SB last year they'd sing a different tune.

I think people definitely experience a sense of community and pride surrounding their sports team. IMO that's not even up for debate. Some areas may just get fed up with losing, or else the market isn't primed for a certain sport and winning doesn't resonate. But humans in general are very tribal and sports teams provide tribal identity.

 

[Marshall]

Bondra seems to have mended fences with the Caps. He's been around the team quite a bit, IIRC. But IMHO his number should not be retired. No more numbers until they win something dammit.

Not only do I agree, I'd take it a step further and convert the current numbers in the rafters to 'honored numbers' (essentially un-retiring them.) #5 is the only number up there now I would consider to keep.

Now, if we want to get really serious, let's get some attendance banners up there...

 

[twabby]

Sports teams definitely do some good for the community. And in rare cases like in DC when the MCI Center was built new arenas/stadiums can have a positive economic impact.

But it's still absolutely insane to hold the taxpayers hostage all so a profitable franchise can become even more profitable. Ownership is worth more than $6 billion, they can foot the bill for a new arena and raise ticket/concession prices if they want to recoup costs. Not like Flames fans are going to stop showing up for games even if ticket prices are insane.

 

[Stewie G]

Ok so a survey after the fact. Of course they're going to say they don't care. They've lost teams too many times, so part of it is their natural response and part of it is probably the apathy of the market...even more so given the suckitude of the Rams for the last decade or whatever it's been.

Also, self-reported surveys are notoriously inaccurate. It's very easy to say one thing based on a high-minded concept and then behave quite differently. If the Rams won the SB last year they'd sing a different tune.

I think people definitely experience a sense of community and pride surrounding their sports team. IMO that's not even up for debate. Some areas may just get fed up with losing, or else the market isn't primed for a certain sport and winning doesn't resonate. But humans in general are very tribal and sports teams provide tribal identity.

Well, I imagine winning teams are rarely moved, so you're left with the bottom dwellers relocating. I imagine this would result in polls showing similar results overall.

If you had polled St. Louis fans during the Greatest Show on Turf era, you'd definitely get a different result, so I don't know if particular areas are primed for certain sports, per se. I bet the years of losing and attitude of the owners had a much bigger impact.

Also, St. Louis hadn't lost a major league team in nearly 30 years and lost their NBA team nearly 50 years ago. I imagine that aspect had little/no impact on respondents.

 

[g00n]

Well, I imagine winning teams are rarely moved, so you're left with the bottom dwellers relocating. I imagine this would result in polls showing similar results overall.

If you had polled St. Louis fans during the Greatest Show on Turf era, you'd definitely get a different result, so I don't know if particular areas are primed for certain sports, per se. I bet the years of losing and attitude of the owners had a much bigger impact.

Also, St. Louis hadn't lost a major league team in nearly 30 years and lost their NBA team nearly 50 years ago. I imagine that aspect had little/no impact on respondents.

30 years is still within memory for a sports fan demographic. I'm sure a lot of the Rams fans were former Cardinal fans, as well as bandwagoners from the SB days of nearly 20 years ago.

I mean, it's still weird for me and I'm not THAT old.

 

[Stewie G]

30 years means just about everyone under the age of about 40 had no real connection to the team. Those would probably be the fans with the strongest connection to Kurt Warner, Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, and Dick Vermeil.

Maybe they have a bunch of angsty baby boomers angry about losing a mediocre football team 30 years ago that dominated respondents, or perhaps people just didn't care about losing a team that was blackmailing the city and had had one foot out the door for a while.

 

[g00n]

30 years means just about everyone under the age of about 40 had no real connection to the team. Those would probably be the fans with the strongest connection to Kurt Warner, Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, and Dick Vermeil.

Maybe they have a bunch of angsty baby boomers angry about losing a mediocre football team 30 years ago that dominated respondents, or perhaps people just didn't care about losing a team that was blackmailing the city and had had one foot out the door for a while.

You're being overly generous with your estimate. Kids under 10 like football. I did. I was around that age when the Colts left and I remember not only the team but the betrayal. Plus attitudes, memorabilia and stories are passed down.

 

[txpd]

Study was based on how participants in St. Louis handled losing the Rams. People just really didn't care..

Baltimore was scared for decades when the Colts left. Over just this kind of thing. People that are old enough to remember it are still scared and are disgusted everytime they see a Colts uniform. They are broken hearted when they see an image of Johnny Unitas or Ray Berry or Tom Matte or Lenny Moore.

The Ravens are great and they love them, but they are still not the Colts.

St Louis has never given a rip about football teams. If the Cardinals left, they would be devastated. Don't kid yourself.

Edit: I am and always have been a Redskins fan. I hated the Colts, but I watched them. I never saw Peyton Manning play until he was in Denver. I went to college up the road from the golden arm restaurant and got to sit with Johnny U often. I care still and it wasn't my team

 

[Stewie G]

You're being overly generous with your estimate. Kids under 10 like football. I did. I was around that age when the Colts left and I remember not only the team but the betrayal. Plus attitudes, memorabilia and stories are passed down.

Does cutting it back a couple years make a difference? The apathy usually starts before the team leaves town anyway. I can't imagine many 10-year-old and under St. Louis kids are die-hard Rams fans at this point.

I think this line sums up how much nostalgia was likely attached to the football Cardinals.

During the Cardinals' 28-year stay in St. Louis, they advanced to the playoffs just three times (1974, 1975 & 1982), never hosting or winning in any appearance.

Oh the stories they must have passed down....

 

[g00n]

Does cutting it back a couple years make a difference? The apathy usually starts before the team leaves town anyway. I can't imagine many 10-year-old and under St. Louis kids are die-hard Rams fans at this point.

I think this line sums up how much nostalgia was likely attached to the football Cardinals.


Oh the stories they must have passed down....

Well we won't know for sure, but this is all beside the point which was that as a city it's not the first time they've lost a team. Beyond that we're whittling away at that fact, which was just one small factor in the overall interpretation of their attitude.

 

[Stewie G]

Well we won't know for sure, but this is all beside the point which was that as a city it's not the first time they've lost a team. Beyond that we're whittling away at that fact, which was just one small factor in the overall interpretation of their attitude.

Agreed.

I have family in the area and they never showed any attachment to the football Cardinals and none of my younger cousins ever showed any interest in the Rams. Each situation is unique, so it would be difficult to have a single survey show any sort of predictive value.

 

[Hivemind]

In my highly unscientific study of fellow bar patrons in San Diego, nobody gave a **** about the Chargers leaving. They all saw the writing on the wall and didn't really care.

 

[HeyMattyB]

Part of me REALLY wants to know what Trevor Linden and Fin the Whale were talking/laughing about during the ceremonial puck drop before the VAN/LA exhibition game in Shanghai earlier today.

 

[Dolemite]

In my highly unscientific study of fellow bar patrons in San Diego, nobody gave a **** about the Chargers leaving. They all saw the writing on the wall and didn't really care.

Former fan myself. Did you hear that Spanos is still looking for a stadium in San Diego? LOL

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

In my highly unscientific study of fellow bar patrons in San Diego, nobody gave a **** about the Chargers leaving. They all saw the writing on the wall and didn't really care.

Do you live in San Diego? I lived there for five years in my 20's and agree that no one gives a **** about the Chargers, especially if they're losing. I got my then-girlfriend 50-yard line tickets 10 rows up when her favorite team came to town for her birthday for $40/piece... she thought I spent a fortune getting tickets so close.

 

[Hivemind]

No, I live in Philadelphia. But I travel to San Diego on a semi-regular basis.

Although, to be fair, I used to get dirt cheap Islanders tickets (2nd row, $40-50, weekend game) and they have a fanbase that would be livid if they moved completely out of town.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

The NHL wants to get a second opinion on the health of Joffrey Lupul and Marian Hossa. Would be funny if the Leafs and Hawks got caught cheating if they are.