OT: 2015 Redskins Part II: Post-Draft Pre-Preseason Snoozefest (0-0-0)

[Jacoby4HOF66]

It is all we, Joe Public, have to go on, and the circumstantial evidence points to he knew about it or endorsed it. There is no hard evidence of any kind.

Evidence provided by an "Independent" investigation by the NFL. The same NFL that imposed salary cap penalities on the Redskins after they treated the un-capped year as an un-capped year. Forgive me if I don't put a lot of stock in this "probably guilty" bull ****.

On a lighter note, Sleepy Davis was re-instated today. Good for him.

 

[HunterSThompson]

Evidence provided by an "Independent" investigation by the NFL. The same NFL that imposed salary cap penalities on the Redskins after they treated the un-capped year as an un-capped year. Forgive me if I don't put a lot of stock in this "probably guilty" bull ****.

On a lighter note, Sleepy Davis was re-instated today. Good for him.

Hey. I don't like having to take the NFLs or some independent investigator's word for it either. I am also not going to believe the word of Tom Brady or Robert Kraft considering they are trying to protect themselves and have a cheating past as well.

There is a 200 and some page report with all of the circumstantial evidence to read. People with more time than I have read it, and think it shows enough circumstantial evidence to say Brady did it, well except the Boston media. The investigators can't exactly say he definitely did it, considering there is no hard evidence, at the least partly because the Patriots, themselves, interfered with the investigation.

 

[mrwarden]

FBO has the Redskins finishing last in the league in 2015...haha

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2015/in...-tops-way-too-early-2016-mock-draft-nfl-draft

 

[g00n]

It is all we, Joe Public, have to go on, and the circumstantial evidence points to he knew about it or endorsed it. There is no hard evidence of any kind.

As Peter King said regarding the wording:

I counted 23 examples of equivocating in the Wells document. Phrases like it is “more probable than not that Tom Brady was at least generally aware†of Patriot staffers John Jastremski and Jim McNally plotting to take air out of game balls. The report uses “reasonable to infer,†“most plausible,†“most likely,†“more probable,†“we think is likely,†“unlikely,†and other phrases that fall short of “certain†to describe multiple events and people’s actions in the report. According to The MMQB legal mind Andrew Brandt, this language is common to trial lawyers in civil litigation (Wells’ background), but let’s not miss the overriding point here. The NFL has a momentous decision on its hands. Is the league willing to hand Brady the kind of suspension or significant fine to mar his career and legacy, based on the weight of the circumstantial evidence in the report?

The use of those terms shouldn't be taken to mean there isn't reasonable evidence to make deductions about what happened. It's just how the investigator and similar lawyers write.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Hey. I don't like having to take the NFLs or some independent investigator's word for it either. I am also not going to believe the word of Tom Brady or Robert Kraft considering they are trying to protect themselves and have a cheating past as well.

There is a 200 and some page report with all of the circumstantial evidence to read. People with more time than I have read it, and think it shows enough circumstantial evidence to say Brady did it, well except the Boston media. The investigators can't exactly say he definitely did it, considering there is no hard evidence, at the least partly because the Patriots, themselves, interfered with the investigation.

I was always under the impression Robert Kraft was one of the more respected NFL owners out there. Now all of a sudden he is a self serving liar. I sure would like to know if his statement that 3 out of 4 Colts issued balls, tested at the same time the Pats footballs were tested, were illegally under the minimum PSI level is true or not. If it is true that exposes this "Probably Guilty" report finding as a farce.

 

[g00n]

I was always under the impression Robert Kraft was one of the more respected NFL owners out there. Now all of a sudden he is a self serving liar. I sure would like to know if his statement that 3 out of 4 Colts issued balls, tested at the same time the Pats footballs were tested, were illegally under the minimum PSI level is true or not. If it is true that exposes this "Probably Guilty" report finding as a farce.

Do you honestly think they would have missed that? Or that the league would spend money on an independent investigation, publish what I now hear is over 200-some pages of findings, and discuss punishment of it's star QB who just won the Super Bowl....for no real reason? As if they haven't had enough scandals? Wouldn't it make more sense to BURY the story and slant the investigation toward blaming just the equipment guys?

Doesn't it make sense that the Patriots owner would have a reason to put his own spin on the issue? Or that he might be conflating some of the things he's heard with what's in the report? He doesn't have to be lying to be wrong or invested in a certain outcome.

This is not media speculation and leaks/rumors anymore. This is the final report from a months-long independent investigation, with evidence of tampering as the conclusion.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Do you honestly think they would have missed that? Or that the league would spend money on an independent investigation, publish what I now hear is over 200-some pages of findings, and discuss punishment of it's star QB who just won the Super Bowl....for no real reason? As if they haven't had enough scandals? Wouldn't it make more sense to BURY the story and slant the investigation toward blaming just the equipment guys?

Doesn't it make sense that the Patriots owner would have a reason to put his own spin on the issue? Or that he might be conflating some of the things he's heard with what's in the report? He doesn't have to be lying to be wrong or invested in a certain outcome.

This is not media speculation and leaks/rumors anymore. This is the final report from a months-long independent investigation, with evidence of tampering as the conclusion.

If the NFL payed for it the independence of the investigation is in question. And after the NFL penalized the Redskins for not coluding with the other NFL teams during the uncapped year leaving out something like 3 of 4 Colts issued footballs were also under the minimum PSI is entirely possible.

But screw it. Suspend Brady for the year and vacate last years SB win. Must protect what little integrity the NFL has left.

 

[g00n]

If the NFL payed for it the independence of the investigation is in question. And after the NFL penalized the Redskins for not coluding with the other NFL teams during the uncapped year leaving out something like 3 of 4 Colts issued footballs were also under the minimum PSI is entirely possible.

But screw it. Suspend Brady for the year and vacate last years SB win. Must protect what little integrity the NFL has left.

Like I said, the NFL has no reason to implicate Brady. None. It's actually one of the worst things they could do if they're paying for a report and somehow manipulating it.

Why would they do that??

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Like I said, the NFL has no reason to implicate Brady. None. It's actually one of the worst things they could do if they're paying for a report and somehow manipulating it.

Why would they do that??

Why did the NFL pinch the Skins for not coluding, then bribe the NFLPA with salary cap increases tied to the Skins penalty so the NFLPA would sign a labor deal with wording in it that protects the NFL from being sued for collusion? Because there is a cabal of owners who like to dish out "justice" behind the cover of the NFL shield.

Recent history of "justice" handed out by the NFL to teams and players is far from being on the up and up. Why would this be any different?

 

[g00n]

Why did the NFL pinch the Skins for not coluding, then bribe the NFLPA with salary cap increases tied to the Skins penalty so the NFLPA would sign a labor deal with wording in it that protects the NFL from being sued for collusion? Because there is a cabal of owners who like to dish out "justice" behind the cover of the NFL shield.

Recent history of "justice" handed out by the NFL to teams and players is far from being on the up and up. Why would this be any different?

Because in those cases the league was covering its ass and protecting its best interests. Implicating Brady and the SB Champs is the opposite of that.

This is all red herring argument that has nothing to do with deflategate. Read the report.

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2073714-wellsreport.html#document/p1


Texts strongly suggest Brady was pushing the "deflator" and accomplice to get the balls right for him and was paying them off with gifts. All but 2 of the Patriots balls were legal when the refs first checked them, then inflated them to standard, and then the equipment manager took off with the balls against league policy. Then at halftime ALL the Patriots balls tested WELL below the bottom PSI threshold on all guages, while the 4 Colts balls they had time to measure before the 3rd quarter all tested legal on at least one guage, and a few hundredths off on any that didn't (compared to several PSI for the Patriots balls). The measurements are all listed in the report. This was all documented by league employees including one who had worked for the Patriots for 12 years. The Colts had alerted officials prior to the game that they had suspicions about the Patriot footballs, so it would be stupid for them to deflate their own balls. As a result any natural deflation that occured due to weather was negligible.

Don't worry, they'll probably give Brady a slap on the wrist. I predicted they'd hang this on some low-level equipment manager and that's what they're doing. Brady's obstruction helps provide cover for letting him off easy.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

No team or player is safe, even Brady, after the public opinion hit the NFL took last year. Factor in the collusion BS against the Skins, led by Mara, and all things are possible, IMO. List whatever info you want from this supposed independent investigation, I am not buying it.

And I fully expect the book thrown at Brady. If the NFL is going to tarnish his reputation with "Probably Guilty" why won't they go all out? I hope Brady walks away and/or sues as a result.

 

[usiel]

FBO has the Redskins finishing last in the league in 2015...haha

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2015/in...-tops-way-too-early-2016-mock-draft-nfl-draft

Hey I would not have a problem getting another draft with a top 5 pick.

 

[g00n]

No team or player is safe, even Brady, after the public opinion hit the NFL took last year. Factor in the collusion BS against the Skins, led by Mara, and all things are possible, IMO. List whatever info you want from this supposed independent investigation, I am not buying it.

And I fully expect the book thrown at Brady. If the NFL is going to tarnish his reputation with "Probably Guilty" why won't they go all out? I hope Brady walks away and/or sues as a result.

Ok so you think that a mostly dead scandal that could easily have just been swept under the rug by blaming one of these equipment managers is being resurrected just to make and example out of the SB winning QB who is one of the top stars in the league? And this is being done by an organization known for massive, recent cover ups to protect players?

Makes no sense at all. The more likely explanation is the one that matches what the report found.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Hey I would not have a problem getting another draft with a top 5 pick.

I have a problem with the Skins finishing last. Bad for my spirit. I am tired of the losing and the jokes. Last time the Skins were relevant I was a sophomore in HS. The feeling of supporting a winning Skins team is fading year by year. It sucks.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Ok so you think that a mostly dead scandal that could easily have just been swept under the rug by blaming one of these equipment managers is being resurrected just to make and example out of the SB winning QB who is one of the top stars in the league? And this is being done by an organization known for massive, recent cover ups to protect players?

Makes no sense at all. The more likely explanation is the one that matches what the report found.

Massive cover ups to protect players? Who?

Social media outrage is driving this. 20 years ago this would be swept under the rug. Not today.

 

[Bananas]

I think it was a mistake not to draft or sign Collins. He would have absolutely fast tracked the rebuilding of the OL. If he becomes an official suspect or is charged, you cut him. If he's actually innocent it's a major coup. Not sure about the reluctance to roll the dice there unless there was damning evidence against the guy.

 

[usiel]

I have a problem with the Skins finishing last. Bad for my spirit. I am tired of the losing and the jokes. Last time the Skins were relevant I was a sophomore in HS. The feeling of supporting a winning Skins team is fading year by year. It sucks.

I hear ya but this team is probably a couple years away from competing for the playoffs and thats if they don't have to start from scratch at the QB position after this season so my expectations are this is back to rebuilding mode.

 

[g00n]

Massive cover ups to protect players? Who?

Social media outrage is driving this. 20 years ago this would be swept under the rug. Not today.

Ray Rice ring a bell? All the concussion lawsuits? The domestic abuse and substance abuse? Dumping the league's tax exempt status so they can't be held hostage by Congress and forced to disclose anything? This is a league that only discloses what it HAS to. Why in the **** would they volunteer one of their top stars for sacrifice when sacrificing NOTHING would have worked, too?

The NFL launched the investigation the night of the AFC Championship. The Colts complained about it BEFORE the game. This is not driven by social media at the start or recently. Nobody was talking about it. Hell, even as the draft approached people were like "deflategate...what ever happened to that? Oh well, draft time".

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

I think it was a mistake not to draft or sign Collins. He would have absolutely fast tracked the rebuilding of the OL. If he becomes an official suspect or is charged, you cut him. If he's actually innocent it's a major coup. Not sure about the reluctance to roll the dice there unless there was damning evidence against the guy.

It's optics and thats all. He was 100% worth a 7th round selection even if he's named a suspect.

 

[RandyHolt]

He better be freaking guilty now, otherwise we are going to face him for the next decade.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Ray Rice ring a bell? All the concussion lawsuits? The domestic abuse and substance abuse? Dumping the league's tax exempt status so they can't be held hostage by Congress and forced to disclose anything? This is a league that only discloses what it HAS to. Why in the **** would they volunteer one of their top stars for sacrifice when sacrificing NOTHING would have worked, too?

The NFL launched the investigation the night of the AFC Championship. The Colts complained about it BEFORE the game. This is not driven by social media at the start or recently. Nobody was talking about it. Hell, even as the draft approached people were like "deflategate...what ever happened to that? Oh well, draft time".

Ray Rice was a cover up? If it was it was a bad one.

And its funny you brought up the concussion lawsuits. The law firm that represented the NFL in settling those lawsuits was Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison. The NFL has been a client of that law firm since the 1980's. That law firm also counts Theodore "Ted" V. Wells Jr. as a litigation partner. And deflategate isn't the 1st investigation Wells has done for his client, the NFL. Wells also headed the Icognito bullying investigation for the NFL back in 2013. So something tells me that Ted Wells "Probably" isn't very independent when it comes to his dealings with the NFL.

As to why the NFL would throw Tom Brady and the SB winning Pats under the bus, after the Ray Rice attempted cover up and then issues with Adrian Peterson and Greg Hardy, primarily, the NFL can't be seen to go easy on a golden boy QB can they?

 

[HunterSThompson]

Ray Rice was a cover up? If it was it was a bad one.

And its funny you brought up the concussion lawsuits. The law firm that represented the NFL in settling those lawsuits was Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison. The NFL has been a client of that law firm since the 1980's. That law firm also counts Theodore "Ted" V. Wells Jr. as a litigation partner. And deflategate isn't the 1st investigation Wells has done for his client, the NFL. Wells also headed the Icognito bullying investigation for the NFL back in 2013. So something tells me that Ted Wells "Probably" isn't very independent when it comes to his dealings with the NFL.

As to why the NFL would throw Tom Brady and the SB winning Pats under the bus, after the Ray Rice attempted cover up and then issues with Adrian Peterson and Greg Hardy, primarily, the NFL can't be seen to go easy on a golden boy QB can they?

I don't know after reading the takeaways from the report, how someone cannot come away thinking that Brady had some role to play in it. In fact, to me, I don't understand how they couldn't get direct testimony from one of the two guys saying Tom told me to do this. This means that there are only two possible reasons for this report to me:

1. Tom is not to blame all that much and the league and Wells are trying to sully the name of one of the most popular players on one of the most popular and successful teams of the last decade, a sure fire first ballot hall of famer and someone that sells merchandise and tickets.
Or
2. He is to blame for some or a lot of it and the vagueness of the report is due to a lack of cooperation by the Patriots or desire by the league to not be forced to fully crucify that same player as mentioned above.

One makes sense. The other doesn't.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

I don't know after reading the takeaways from the report, how someone cannot come away thinking that Brady had some role to play in it. In fact, to me, I don't understand how they couldn't get direct testimony from one of the two guys saying Tom told me to do this. This means that there are only two possible reasons for this report to me:

1. Tom is not to blame all that much and the league and Wells are trying to sully the name of one of the most popular players on one of the most popular and successful teams of the last decade, a sure fire first ballot hall of famer and someone that sells merchandise and tickets.
Or
2. He is to blame for some or a lot of it and the vagueness of the report is due to a lack of cooperation by the Patriots or desire by the league to not be forced to fully crucify that same player as mentioned above.

One makes sense. The other doesn't.

What happened to the Skins after the un-capped year was shady as ****, and it was implied that some high level owners played a special role in putting the stones to the Skins to punish them for not going along with agreed conduct by teams during the un-capped year. What did Mara from the Giants say? "They're lucky they didn't lose draft picks too", or something to that affect?

So, at least to me, it seems reasonable to "assume" that a similar group of high level owners might of pulled the same **** in regards to the Patriots. Especially after the spygate stuff 10 years ago. Add to it the black eye the NFL got after Ray Rice fiasco, and the negative attention dumped on the NFL during the 2 weeks leading up to the SB, and an example must be made, no? The NFL can't be seen to go easy on Golden Boy Tom Brady.

I very well could be wrong in my line of thought, but I don't have a lot of trust in the NFL in these matters under Roger Goodell. The supposed independent investigator working for the NFL's #1 law firm doesn't help either.

 

[mrwarden]

Fowler out for season...man...

 

[Bananas]

Fowler out for season...man...

That's just...man...hideous.