Post-Game Talk: 2015 NHL Entry Draft: The Boston Ruins Edition

[Triumph]

Doesn't all of this making passing on Bittner, Kylington, Sprong, Dunn. Harkins, Hintz, Bracco or anyone even worse?

You essentially just said that Devils had to make a weak deal as opposed to making a poor value choice from #36. Think about that. It was an all around ****ty use of the #36.

I never said that I liked picking the goalie - I hated it. But if that's the top guy on your board and you feel like you can still get him several spots later (and you have a guy on your list who you rate as equal to him), a trade down is a smart move.

 

[JimEIV]

I agree with you about the goalie Jim, but I think you're trying really hard to not like Shero.

How? I willing to give credit for the Palmieri trade. I think that was fantastic.

I think everything on day 2 was subpar personally. I think we had the opportunity to come out of this draft in far better shape than we did.

#36 should've/could'a been a home run pick but we didn't even give ourselves a chance.

 

[Rhodes 81]

I don't know how you look at going into a draft with a 1st, two seconds, two fourths, and a 6th and coming out of it with Zacha, Palmieri, Blackwell, and three boom or bust type picks as a bad thing. If Zacha is as good as so many people suspect he will be, we have a surefire top six player aged 18, an almost surefire NHL level goalie aged 18, and a 24 year old middle six forward with speed and room to grow. We were basically hoping to get two top 9 forwards and one role player out of this draft, and we almost assuredly got that plus a great goal prospect. What's not to like?

 

[JimEIV]

We didn't have two 4ths
We had our first #6
Two 2nds ( 36, 41)
a 3rd (#67)
a 4th (97)
And a 6th(157)

From a draft perspective did someone not expect us to get a supremely talented player at #6? That is nutty to even talk about...

Where we were going to make or break this draft was with #36, #41, #67 and #97...The top 100...who cares about 157, at least for right now...maybe we get surprised? But our money maker was picks 2-4 and there is no doubt about that. And that didn't turn out so well.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice 1h1 hour ago

Shero on not trading back from No. 6: “We were getting calls from teams behind us when No. 3 was on No. 4 on the clock.â€

Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice 1h1 hour ago

Most of calls were from teams in 7 (Philly), 8 (Columbus) and 9 (San Jose) spots, Shero said.

Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice 1h1 hour ago

Shero on using pick once draft got to 6: "If I had traded back I'm pretty sure David Conte would have fallen off his chair."

 

[NJDevs26]

The Devils did have someone in mind for that potential 4th round pick, or else they wouldn't have had the qualifier on it. That person was picked and so they saved the pick for next year. This is what Shero said, at least.

The Devils were in a bind, they had to find a team to trade up to them, did they get perfect or full value, no, but they got some value, which is much better than just taking Blackwood at 36.

And Shero practically said it was a forward too.

But by getting the extra three back in the trade down they essentially turned the Palmeri trade into just one second-rounder. Instead of drafting at 36 and 42, they got Palmeri and drafted at 41, while swapping thirds next year. And Palmeri's 24 years old, he does count as restocking the cupboard....this wasn't trading for Patrick Sharp the way everyone was scared they were going to.

 

[Emperoreddy]

And Shero practically said it was a forward too.

By getting the extra three back in the trade down they essentially turned the Palmeri trade into just one second-rounder. Instead of drafting at 36 and 42, they got Palmeri and drafted at 41, while swapping thirds next year.

And the third we give up is our pick (which leads to a crazy situation when I think about it). We pick the best of Florida's two thirds. Then we give the Ducks the worst of the Detroit/our Florida pick.

 

[JimEIV]

And Shero practically said it was a forward too.

But by getting the extra three back in the trade down they essentially turned the Palmeri trade into just one second-rounder. Instead of drafting at 36 and 42, they got Palmeri and drafted at 41, while swapping thirds next year. And Palmeri's 24 years old, he does count as restocking the cupboard....this wasn't trading for Patrick Sharp the way everyone was scared they were going to.

This is all wrong.

They drafted at 42 by trading down from #36 and gave up #41 for Palmieri... and
what does 36 have anything to do with Palmieri?

They blew an opportunity with #36 no rationalization can change that fact.

Do you think Pronman was wrong when he said...

I didn't think the needle moved too much on Saturday for the Devils. I like Mackenzie Blackwood and Blake Speers, but there wasn't a huge surge of talent into the system on Day 2.

Of course he wasn't and that is why this draft can't be judged well.

 

[glenwo2]

This is all wrong.

They drafted at 42 by trading down from #36 and gave up #41 for Palmieri... and
what does 36 have anything to do with Palmieri?

They blew an opportunity with #36 no rationalization can change that fact.

Do you think Pronman was wrong when he said...



Of course he wasn't and that is this draft can't be judged well.

If the draft can't be judged well, than why do you assume that the Devils basically passed up on a borderline Top-6 player in the 2nd round by getting a Goaltender instead?

Forget the Draft GRADES for a second here....

Isn't it safe to assume that we can't judge any of the players selected in the 2nd round well, also?

I mean...we won't truly know until 3 years(minimum) down the line.

 

[JimEIV]

If the draft can't be judged well, than why do you assume that the Devils basically passed up on a borderline Top-6 player in the 2nd round by getting a Goaltender instead?

Forget the Draft GRADES for a second here....

Isn't it safe to assume that we can't judge any of the players selected in the 2nd round well, also?

I mean...we won't truly know until 3 years(minimum) down the line.

I really have no idea what you are trying to say?

He is what I am saying...

1. We had #36 which essentially means we had our choice of any player in the second round.

2. There is NO question Whatsoever that top 6 forwards and 4 dmen will come out of this 2nd round... none, this isn't even debatable.

3. A top 6 forward or a top pairing dman is much more valuable and harder to find than a goalie...this is certainly debatable.

4. Taking a chance on a goalie over a top 6 forward or a top 4 defensan is dumb because of the uncertainty in how goalies develop... take a look at this Jeff Frazee was ranked 3 goslies ahead of Jonathan Quick in their draft year. We took Frazee #38 overall bypassing Paul Stastny, Justin Abdelkader, Mason Raymond, and Adam McQuad...that is death to an organization... but even if Frazee turn out to be Quick, I'd rather have Stastny and worry about the goalie later

http://www.ushr.com/news/20050114/690?label=NHL+Central+Scouting+Mid-Term+Ranking

 

[NJDevs26]

The funny thing about all this is I probably would have preferred Killington (sp?) in the second round and a goalie in the fourth round too. Or pick whatever forward you want, fine...I admit knowing very little about any of these guys past the first few picks so I'm not going to go nuts on valuation past the first round. Killington went eighteen picks later so I can't even second-guess that really.

I just think WAAAY too much is being made about a second-round pick and supposedly not addressing the forward position when they did address it with Zacha, Palmeri and Spears in the top hundred picks, a C prospect, a NHL RW and a RW prospect. I mean people act like we should have picked another forward, yet there wouldn't have been any of this fuss if we DID pick a d-man with the second rounder.

 

[Devil X]

Oh btw the way Shero has been talking about Conte im not so sure he is going to get removed anytime soon.

 

[Missionhockey]

Oh btw the way Shero has been talking about Conte im not so sure he is going to get removed anytime soon.

This line cracked me up:



It does seem to me like he's got quite a bit of respect for him, but who knows what Shero's thinking.

 

[NJDevs26]

Oh btw the way Shero has been talking about Conte im not so sure he is going to get removed anytime soon.

Honestly I'm getting a bit of a renewed optomism about Conte from this draft. Granted these guys could all bust and the goalie valuation could be a mistake but I think they struck a nice balance between need and value overall. And I do think the meme about him not drafting forwards well just overlooks the fact we haven't been USING high picks on forwards post-Josefson till this year.

 

[Triumph]

I really have no idea what you are trying to say?

He is what I am saying...

1. We had #36 which essentially means we had our choice of any player in the second round.

2. There is NO question Whatsoever that top 6 forwards and 4 dmen will come out of this 2nd round... none, this isn't even debatable.

3. A top 6 forward or a top pairing dman is much more valuable and harder to find than a goalie...this is certainly debatable.

4. Taking a chance on a goalie over a top 6 forward or a top 4 defensan is dumb because of the uncertainty in how goalies develop... take a look at this Jeff Frazee was ranked 3 goslies ahead of Jonathan Quick in their draft year. We took Frazee #38 overall bypassing Paul Stastny, Justin Abdelkader, Mason Raymond, and Adam McQuad...that is death to an organization... but even if Frazee turn out to be Quick, I'd rather have Stastny and worry about the goalie later

http://www.ushr.com/news/20050114/690?label=NHL+Central+Scouting+Mid-Term+Ranking

If the Devils thought that one of the players in the 2nd round this year would turn out to be a 1st line center, I'm pretty sure that guy would've been taken over a goalie. Now if you want to say the problem is that the Devils didn't see that in any of these players, fine, but it's of course hindsight bias to point at a draft 10 years ago and start picking guys NJ could've taken instead of a goalie.

 

[Devilsgrl35]

This line cracked me up:



It does seem to me like he's got quite a bit of respect for him, but who knows what Shero's thinking.

That shows they LOVE Zacha and didn't he'd fall to 8. And I do think the Flyers may have taken him.

 

[JimEIV]

I think WAAY too little is being made of the #36 overall. It was a premium pick in a deep draft and it was the difference between having a shot at a great young forward and not.

 

[ScottyK]

Kylington at 60 was amazing value for the Flames.

 

[glenwo2]

The funny thing about all this is I probably would have preferred Killington (sp?) in the second round and a goalie in the fourth round too. Or pick whatever forward you want, fine...I admit knowing very little about any of these guys past the first few picks so I'm not going to go nuts on valuation past the first round. Killington went eighteen picks later so I can't even second-guess that really.

I just think WAAAY too much is being made about a second-round pick and supposedly not addressing the forward position when they did address it with Zacha, Palmeri and Spears in the top hundred picks, a C prospect, a NHL RW and a RW prospect. I mean people act like we should have picked another forward, yet there wouldn't have been any of this fuss if we DID pick a d-man with the second rounder.

I think it's more a case of some here(Jim, in particular) hating that a Goaltender was picked instead of a forward than anything else.

 

[ScottyK]

I really have no issue with the Blackwood pick, As a org we really don't have goalie depth. Kinkaid won't be here in 3 yrs if he continues to progress and we don't have anyone in the pipe who could even challenge for a back-up role to Cory. By the time Blackwood is really ready Cory will be going on 35 maybe 36 and could be a valuable trade chip. We're restocking the forward cupboards in a bunch of different ways not just through the draft.

I get the argument about not going forward at 36 but meh...really wouldn't matter until 3-4 yrs down the road anyway.

 

[glenwo2]

If the Devils thought that one of the players in the 2nd round this year would turn out to be a 1st line center, I'm pretty sure that guy would've been taken over a goalie. Now if you want to say the problem is that the Devils didn't see that in any of these players, fine, but it's of course hindsight bias to point at a draft 10 years ago and start picking guys NJ could've taken instead of a goalie.

Well said.

And to be frank, I prefer actual Devils Scouts on what they saw and their assessment on Draftees than anyone not in the know, so to speak.

 

[JimEIV]

If the Devils thought that one of the players in the 2nd round this year would turn out to be a 1st line center, I'm pretty sure that guy would've been taken over a goalie. Now if you want to say the problem is that the Devils didn't see that in any of these players, fine, but it's of course hindsight bias to point at a draft 10 years ago and start picking guys NJ could've taken instead of a goalie.

2005 was certainly an anecdotal example but it is a real life example.

You and I both know there is at least one 1st line forward in that 2nd after #36 and probably 2 or 3. Sure the chances of hitting on one of those players is small...but taking a goalie gives you zero chance at getting one.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I really have no issue with the Blackwood pick, As a org we really don't have goalie depth. Kinkaid won't be here in 3 yrs if he continues to progress and we don't have anyone in the pipe who could even challenge for a back-up role to Cory. By the time Blackwood is really ready Cory will be going on 35 maybe 36 and could be a valuable trade chip. We're restocking the forward cupboards in a bunch of different ways not just through the draft.

I get the argument about not going forward at 36 but meh...really wouldn't matter until 3-4 yrs down the road anyway.

Agreed. You got 4 forwards out of this draft. 3 are prospects and one is young and NHL ready. We also signed two more young prospects from outside the organization.

We were not fully restocking with one draft, but they are clearly working on adding forwards via various different methods to restock the cupboard.

 

[Missionhockey]

2005 was certainly an anecdotal example but it is a real life example.

You and I both know there is at least one 1st line forward in that 2nd after #36 and probably 2 or 3. Sure the chances of hitting on one of those players is small...but taking a goalie gives you zero chance at getting one.

We don't know what the scouts are thinking, but as I think it's pretty clear that they weren't impressed with what was available to them and didn't think that any player would have as high of an impact as Blackwood. If they projected Blackwood to be a starting NHL goaltender while only projecting what they had available to them to be middle six type of guys, then you go with the guy that you feel makes the biggest impact.

And lost in all of this talk, is that Blackwood seems to be a pretty good goalie prospect. He was the starter for Barrie both years he's played in the OHL, he's a big kid and he handles the puck well. Lets see what we have before we rip him to shreds.

 

[Czech Trio]

I know points aren't everything but this is interesting nonetheless (Senyshyn is bigger though)

#15 Senyshyn 45 pts in 66 games
#67 Speers 67 points in 57 games

22 more points in 9 less games.

The fact that Boston passed on Connor and Barzal (they could have had both!) is just amazing.