2015 Draft picks updates

[mikelvl]

I believe he's talking in general terms, in that Yakupov was the consensus No. 1 pick and has disappointed, disproving the "sure thing" scenario.

I think I recall reading that Oilers management were leaning in a different direction with that pick but Daryl Katz overruled them. Meddling owner.

 

[ODAAT]

unless it`s one of those "generational talents" my guess is that scouts look at a kid, and try to envision what that kid will be like in a few years not what he`s like right now.

Again, just guessing but that`s my opinion and I imagine it to be an incredibly hard job and one where, as a scout, you have to have a thick skin as there will most likely be more misses than hits

 

[Artemis]

I think I recall reading that Oilers management were leaning in a different direction with that pick but Daryl Katz overruled them. Meddling owner.

But he was on the cover of The Hockey News!!

 

[RedeyeRocketeer]

Nobody said that.

What I said is you (people) are going by public lists. You don't know what team lists are and until you do, the debate about who is a reach or not isn't even worthy of discussion.

For example: How do we know whether the Islanders or Jets didn't have DeBrusk ahead of Barzal/Connor and selected them because DeBrusk was off the board?

We don't. We just assume that was their order because that's what some public lists said. Newsflash. At least three teams had Senyshyn in the first round. Could be more. We'll never know. Not one of the public lists had Senyshyn in the first round. (I was close though )

Zboril was basically a no-brainer for them. He was the consensus best d-man available, both public and team related. And a desperate need for this team.

Dom you know how much I value your posts, so when I reply to you make sure you're reading my posts with the correct lens on.

I feel like it's fairly inconsistent to agree that Zboril was the consensus best d-man available in that spot (fwiw I agree completely) while simultaneously saying that for the most part, Barzal and Connor were not the consensus best forwards available. Seems odd to apply the logic in one spot and not the other, and the proof is fairly simple too. Right after we pick, Connor and Barzal vanish off the draft board and the rest is history.

Btw I'm saying that I think DeBrusk is a reach because on my board he was way way (way) below Connor. And I'd be really darn surprised if on 90% of boards he wasn't also. And the reaction of many GM's post draft leads me to believe the same.

 

[DominicT]

Dom you know how much I value your posts, so when I reply to you make sure you're reading my posts with the correct lens on.

I feel like it's fairly inconsistent to agree that Zboril was the consensus best d-man available in that spot (fwiw I agree completely) while simultaneously saying that for the most part, Barzal and Connor were not the consensus best forwards available. Seems odd to apply the logic in one spot and not the other, and the proof is fairly simple too. Right after we pick, Connor and Barzal vanish off the draft board and the rest is history.

Btw I'm saying that I think DeBrusk is a reach because on my board he was way way (way) below Connor. And I'd be really darn surprised if on 90% of boards he wasn't also. And the reaction of many GM's post draft leads me to believe the same.

Truth. If I was going by public lists. But I am not.

With all due respect, that's not proof. Again, do we know what the Isles/Jets would have done with the 3 of them on the board? They too could have had them ranked DeBrusk/Barzal/Connor and chose who was available. Fact is, we don't know.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Leaving grammar aside, there is no such thing as "more safer," which is what a crowd of people is trying to tell you.

When you're talking about 18-year-old kids, with very rare exceptions, there is no such thing as a 100% sure thing. When Pavel Datsyuk was 18, he was a shrimp who played a grand total of 18 games for Spartak Yekaterinburg. Zdeno Chara at 18 played even fewer games for Å HK 37 PieÅ¡ťany, and of course was told by more than one coach that he would never make it in hockey.

It's a crapshoot, and that goes for every team in the NHL, not just the Bruins. Constantly denigrating Boston's draft picks and gazing longingly at other teams' is an exercise in frustration, but if that's what you enjoy doing, knock yourself out, I guess. Just don't expect many people to join you.

This is absolutely ridiculous and I doubt you even believe it yourself. If your wonderful anecdotal Datsyuk reference held water you'd be calling for the B's to trade their #1 and SJ's #1 this year for multiple 3rd and 4ths and 6ths because, hey it's a crapshoot and there's no such thing as any pick being safer than another.

But we know that's not true and we know you don't believe it. In general the top scoring Fs come out of the top half of the draft. Of course there are outliers but your exceptions don't prove the rule not matter how much you'd like them to.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Dom you know how much I value your posts, so when I reply to you make sure you're reading my posts with the correct lens on.

I feel like it's fairly inconsistent to agree that Zboril was the consensus best d-man available in that spot (fwiw I agree completely) while simultaneously saying that for the most part, Barzal and Connor were not the consensus best forwards available. Seems odd to apply the logic in one spot and not the other, and the proof is fairly simple too. Right after we pick, Connor and Barzal vanish off the draft board and the rest is history.

Btw I'm saying that I think DeBrusk is a reach because on my board he was way way (way) below Connor. And I'd be really darn surprised if on 90% of boards he wasn't also. And the reaction of many GM's post draft leads me to believe the same.

even after 10-15 year careers people still debate who is better. was bourque better than lidstrom? was neely better than bure? was orr better than gretzky?

you will find huge disagreement on ranking these players even years after there careers are done so imagine how foolish it is to passionately debate 18 year old kids and pretend their was only 1 correct way to rank them.

some scouts win and lose their jobs trying to do this job. the success rate is NEVER better than the failure rate. but some scouts are better than other scouts.

even within a team there is debate and disagreement. sometimes a compromise must be made.

as fans we are naive to believe anyone has all the answers this early in the game

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I think I recall reading that Oilers management were leaning in a different direction with that pick but Daryl Katz overruled them. Meddling owner.

thats certainly the gospel that their radio color man has sung. im not sure any oil management people ever said it.

i believe though that the decesion was made weeks before the draft. this color man loves to be an insider. he was singing murrys name all along and then overnight started saying dmen take forever to develop and you have to draft your forwards.

i guess its likely they wanted to get the fanbase on board if the owner was laying down the law

 

[patty59]

All I need now is the great Mark Divver to tweet out Tanev agrees to a contract with Boston and the equally great Kirk to tweet out Jimmy Vesey is going to wait till August 15th before deciding and he has ruled out Toronto

what a performance by DeBrusk in enemy territory in the playoffs

1/3 so far.

 

[RedeyeRocketeer]

Truth. If I was going by public lists. But I am not.

With all due respect, that's not proof. Again, do we know what the Isles/Jets would have done with the 3 of them on the board? They too could have had them ranked DeBrusk/Barzal/Connor and chose who was available. Fact is, we don't know.

Dom what I meant is Barzal and Connor went immediately after we passed on them. It's reasonably conclusive proof that they were basically considered top 12-15 ish guys in the draft since they vanished back to back once pick 15 was done. I'm not even saying in relation to Debrusk, I mean where those 2 were on most team's big boards.

 

[DominicT]

Dom what I meant is Barzal and Connor went immediately after we passed on them. It's reasonably conclusive proof that they were basically considered top 12-15 ish guys in the draft since they vanished back to back once pick 15 was done. I'm not even saying in relation to Debrusk, I mean where those 2 were on most team's big boards.

Right. I understand your point. It's mine your not getting.

Let me put it this way:

Assume the Bruins took Zboril/Barzal/Senyshyn and then the Isles took DeBrusk. And DeBrusk was next on the Bruins list. Does that make DeBrusk a reach? You don't know because you don't know how the teams had them ranked.

That was my original post. Not that Barzal/Connor weren't legitimately in that area, but the only evidence there is that DeBrusk was not is "Public lists".

Determining whats is a "reach" from a handful of public lists is futile. Determining how 30 NHL teams had them ranked is what matters.

As for the bolded, I would like to see where they were on "most teams big boards." If you don't want to post it publicly, can you pm it to me?

See, that's my point.

 

[What The Puck]

Right. I understand your point. It's mine your not getting.

Let me put it this way:

Assume the Bruins took Zboril/Barzal/Senyshyn and then the Isles took DeBrusk. And DeBrusk was next on the Bruins list. Does that make DeBrusk a reach? You don't know because you don't know how the teams had them ranked.

That was my original post. Not that Barzal/Connor weren't legitimately in that area, but the only evidence there is that DeBrusk was not is "Public lists".

Determining whats is a "reach" from a handful of public lists is futile. Determining how 30 NHL teams had them ranked is what matters.

As for the bolded, I would like to see where they were on "most teams big boards." If you don't want to post it publicly, can you pm it to me?

See, that's my point.

By that logic, Dom, since we don't have the public lists of every team, there are no reaches. Which is clearly untrue. I think we can look at a variety of public sources about where Jake DeBrusk was and get a reasonable talent estimation by credible people. The fact is, Barzal and Connor look great, and Jake is hanging around third on his team in points in the CHL.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

All I need now is the great Mark Divver to tweet out Tanev agrees to a contract with Boston and the equally great Kirk to tweet out Jimmy Vesey is going to wait till August 15th before deciding and he has ruled out Toronto

what a performance by DeBrusk in enemy territory in the playoffs

It's not Kirk, but will this do?

 

[BB88]

It's not Kirk, but will this do?

This is something Sweeney can't lose, there will be, should be spots open in the top9 and he's a Bruins fan.

 

[indy]

By that logic, Dom, since we don't have the public lists of every team, there are no reaches. Which is clearly untrue. I think we can look at a variety of public sources about where Jake DeBrusk was and get a reasonable talent estimation by credible people. The fact is, Barzal and Connor look great, and Jake is hanging around third on his team in points in the CHL.

DeBrusk had a 42 goal season his draft year. Impressive.

He was tearing it up this year before a devastating, cringe inducing injury. If that didn't happen he would have most likely been on the World Jr. team. Then traded and put in a different role on RD. Still a PPG and a +15.

It seems he was given more freedom last game and dominated in all areas. DeBrusk will be a fan favourite IMHO.

 

[indy]

It's not Kirk, but will this do?

Welcome to the Bruins Jimmy. Your dream has come true.

 

[RedeyeRocketeer]

Right. I understand your point. It's mine your not getting.

Let me put it this way:

Assume the Bruins took Zboril/Barzal/Senyshyn and then the Isles took DeBrusk. And DeBrusk was next on the Bruins list. Does that make DeBrusk a reach? You don't know because you don't know how the teams had them ranked.

That was my original post. Not that Barzal/Connor weren't legitimately in that area, but the only evidence there is that DeBrusk was not is "Public lists".

Determining whats is a "reach" from a handful of public lists is futile. Determining how 30 NHL teams had them ranked is what matters.

As for the bolded, I would like to see where they were on "most teams big boards." If you don't want to post it publicly, can you pm it to me?

See, that's my point.

But Dom my point is you can't say "big boards are private" and then say "but on everyone's big board Zboril was the next best D up". It can't be like that for some positions and not for others based on public lists. Specially since several teams came out and said they had Chabot ranked higher on their boards. What I heard was at least 3 teams came out saying they felt Chabot had the much higher ceiling (but wasn't as far along as Zboril). So I'm just saying that Connor (specifically) was widely coveted and was an absolute steal at #16. I'm still not convinced the same could be said about Debrusk.

 

[Mount Kramer Cameras]

I'm not sure if this been posted elsewhere, but here's the footage of DeBrusk's three point game. Some real nice plays.

 

[Artemis]

This is something Sweeney can't lose, there will be, should be spots open in the top9 and he's a Bruins fan.

What if Vesey's girlfriend really likes Toronto?

Seriously, who knows what he's thinking? It's certainly possible he wants to play in Boston. It's also possible he wants to play anywhere BUT Boston (or Nashville).

No doubt Sweeney will go after Vesey, but where he ends up is entirely up to the pursued, not the pursuee.

 

[Artemis]

They are not happy in Music City:

Bob McKenzie Retweeted
Adam Vingan ‏@AdamVingan 15m15 minutes ago

David Poile: "I clearly believe that Jimmy has received bad advice and bad counsel."

 

[PB37]

I'm not sure if this been posted elsewhere, but here's the footage of DeBrusk's three point game. Some real nice plays.

That looks like some Loui Eriksson next level stuff there from the kid.

 

[BB88]

What if Vesey's girlfriend really likes Toronto?

Seriously, who knows what he's thinking? It's certainly possible he wants to play in Boston. It's also possible he wants to play anywhere BUT Boston (or Nashville).

No doubt Sweeney will go after Vesey, but where he ends up is entirely up to the pursued, not the pursuee.

After reading about him I see Sweeney having some strong points to sell to him, and him signing with Boston.

 

[mikelvl]

After reading about him I see Sweeney having some strong points to sell to him, and him signing with Boston.

You're getting way ahead of yourself. All 30 teams could be after him. Teams with a much better shot at a Cup. Teams that may be lower in the standings but can put him in the Top 6 immediately. This is far from a sure thing. And please don't call for Sweeney's resignation if they don't get him. He may take a trip to California as part of the FA process. Ya think he'll like it out there with all three teams in the Top 10 in the league? Ya think he'll consider playing with Toews and Kane? Toronto is going to give him whatever he wants. They already employ his dad.

 

[mikelvl]

They are not happy in Music City:

Can't say I blame them. This loophole should really be closed or modified. A comp. pick at the end of the round the player was drafted in would be a good start.

 

[Dellstrom]

It's not Kirk, but will this do?

And so the fun begins. It's either us or Toronto, I think.

Now, Jimmy... We saw what you said about how proud you were to be from Boston, how proud you are of your family's history in Boston, and how much you love playing in Boston... Come, nay, stay home. You're very welcome to. In all seriousness he's a blue chip prospect, and he has some terrific potential, leadership ability, is very proven... List goes on and on. Sweeney should be pulling out ALL the stops, especially when he's illustrated such a love for the city. Tell him unless he's a massive disappointment he has a spot on the roster next year, because he would.