Corby78
65 - 10 - 20
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/1...x-year-extension-remain-nhl-commissioner-2022
Got up this morning to see this. Died a little inside.
Got up this morning to see this. Died a little inside.
League News: 2015-16 Around the League V (NHL News n' Scores n' Stuff)
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txpd
Registered User
Hivemind
We're Touched
Corby78
65 - 10 - 20
He has been horrible.
3x lockouts, with one season completely lost.
force feeding expansion into markets who aren't ready for teams.
an inability to sell players and the sport.
an inability to keep the NHL on national television.
an inability to get mainstream media to even talk about his sport.
Even when its good (Winter Classic) he starts to screw it up by flooding the market with "stadium series" games to lessen its luster.
The shootout garbage.
I will say getting rid of the 2 line pass was good. And the last I've read the sponsorship money is up. So financially the game is healthy. He just isn't they guy to take the league where it needs to go. He doesn't know how to make the game better, or sell the product.
Corby78
65 - 10 - 20
Died a little inside to see the best commissioner in the history of the NHL extended?
I'm assuming your going by the technicality that he is the only one to hold the title "Commissioner?" Otherwise Mr. Clarence Campbell and Mr. John Ziegler would like a chance to refute.
txpd
Registered User
The owners seem to like him. He works for them. That "financially the game is healthy" part they like a lot.
I thought that the NHL contract with NBC and its affiliates has been strong and consistant. No?
The NHL is growing in an ever expanding entertainment world where traditional sports are all slipping.
RandyHolt
Keep truckin'
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Got bent for 6 more years of mario huh
Nice list Corby78
May I add the NHL was far too late to attempt to market Ovi. It was only after S1d got Steckled did the league try. He was a marketers dream come true, and they instead focused on marketing 1 player. When they finally did start to notice Ovi, it was post Bruce where he cooled off a bit.
Ovi was a huge road draw filling arenas everywhere. So what does Bentman do? Neuters Ovi with his suspensions etc.
I have never been a fan of speeding up the game. Gone are basically all replays, especially at the arena.
The NHL getting stronger means little, since it was so weak to start with. I feel like its the last sport an american is likely to watch.
All star weekend was a mess. Its like the Scott debacle saved the weekend.
Nice list Corby78
May I add the NHL was far too late to attempt to market Ovi. It was only after S1d got Steckled did the league try. He was a marketers dream come true, and they instead focused on marketing 1 player. When they finally did start to notice Ovi, it was post Bruce where he cooled off a bit.
Ovi was a huge road draw filling arenas everywhere. So what does Bentman do? Neuters Ovi with his suspensions etc.
I have never been a fan of speeding up the game. Gone are basically all replays, especially at the arena.
The NHL getting stronger means little, since it was so weak to start with. I feel like its the last sport an american is likely to watch.
All star weekend was a mess. Its like the Scott debacle saved the weekend.
Hivemind
We're Touched
There used to be a great thread about Gary Bettman on these boards, but it appears to have been lost to time. I even still have the URL for it (thanks reddit!)
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=891378
Alas, apparently HFboards only archives so much.
Moral of the story. Most of the "sun belt" expansion/relocation was already underway before Bettman. He's an figurehead for the owners, but doesn't have any real authority for things like lockouts or expansion without their approval. Bettman is hired to represent the ownership, not make decisions for them. He cannot stop owners from voting to lock out players, or make demands of owners hellbent on moving their teams. Nor can he control which cities submit expansion applications to the league.
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=891378
Alas, apparently HFboards only archives so much.
Moral of the story. Most of the "sun belt" expansion/relocation was already underway before Bettman. He's an figurehead for the owners, but doesn't have any real authority for things like lockouts or expansion without their approval. Bettman is hired to represent the ownership, not make decisions for them. He cannot stop owners from voting to lock out players, or make demands of owners hellbent on moving their teams. Nor can he control which cities submit expansion applications to the league.
Alexander the Gr8
Registered User
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
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The flip side of your list might include:
Revenues higher than ever
Salary cap implemented against player wishes/cost certainty
NHL franchises more valuable than ever
Expansion looming
He's a weasel but he's done well by the owners and they're the ones who pay him.
ALLCAPSALLTHETIME
Great Dane! Love that Eller feller.
RandyHolt
Keep truckin'
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Point counter point
the flip side of your list might include:
The league has survived for 100 years. It doesn't need Bentman nor him locked in for 6 kowtowing to select owners. e.g. making NBC the official network of S1d.
The salary cap has largely been a joke and circumvented repeatedly to the point that buyouts had to be implemented.
With hyper inflation since 2004 I question that anything is more valuable than then.
Expansion will further diminish its own product by killing the overall talent level of any given team.
Hivemind
We're Touched
This is still among the most baffling attempts at counter-arguments to expansion I have ever seen.
Hockey is more competitive than ever. The levels of play are so high and the parity is so strong that it forces tight, systems-oriented hockey in order to succeed. Talent is forced to reign in their skills in order to stay within a system, simply because the risk is seldom worth the reward.
There's already a surplus of talent for the league. It's not as if there are 3rd and 4th line grinders because there isn't enough skill out there. Look at Derek Roy. It's not as if his skills decayed significantly, but rather GMBM/Trotz wanted someone who could play tighter, defensive hockey in the bottom six. Guys like Sam Gagner have been forced into fringe NHL roles, while players like Nikolai Zherdev left the NHL for greener pastures overseas. These aren't players that look out of place on a scoring line. The talent level is there, but there simply aren't enough jobs to guarantee them a role that suits them. Not in an NHL that emphasizes so much tight, structured play.
Expansion not only creates more jobs for these guys, but it hopefully will open up play for the top end. Creative, dynamic play flourishes when the skilled players have the ability to beat the less-skilled ones. A smaller league restricts that, as defenders and backcheckers have to be elite to hold down a regular job. When you increase the gap between the top of the league players and the bottom of the league players, it creates a greater opportunity for the top of the league to get to use their skills.
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
"force feeding expansion into markets who aren't ready for teams" has been generally a success. Florida, Anaheim, Nashville, Columbus, and Minnesota have all been successes of varying degrees (despite ownership issues in Nashville). Atlanta is the only failed expansion market, and that turned into a wildly successful relocation.
Expansion hasn't been a problem at all, and is likely one of the core reasons for the increase in revenues under Bettman.
Expansion hasn't been a problem at all, and is likely one of the core reasons for the increase in revenues under Bettman.
txpd
Registered User
I don't understand your basis for saying this. Before the salary cap were there not already teams that were spending at or above the current salary cap? How much would those teams be paying now unlimited?
I think the Capitals are a star laden team BECAUSE of the salary cap.
How many cap circumventing contracts have there been?
RandyHolt
Keep truckin'
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Moar competitive - bah. The Bentmans of the league want parity and do all they can to ensure it. The games were far more competitive in the 80s. There is more to competition than looking at a 3-2 score and assuming the game was competitive. If all the teams are largely equal, every game is coming down to a coin flip lucky break call from the ref / overturned goal on an offside. Is that a better NHL? Bentman may tell you it is but not all of us agree.
Anyone else remember the 3rd periods of games in the 1980's, when a team was down a goal? Now, you only see that insane competitive effort to get a GTG in the playoffs. That lack of effort you see now easily trumps any increases in overall talent level. A lack of skill can be replaced by hard work. Overpaid lazy "stars" littered the league and led to buyouts galore.
Unless the skill levels are increasing of the average kid coming up the ranks, adding more teams waters down talent. Are players graduating to the bigs better than ever now? Taking away fighters and replacing them with grinders helps bump talent a little, but not in the high end talent dept.
Florida? Last I watched their arena was empty. And the KHL among other leagues have to tap into our talent pool in some regard.
So how many teams can boast all top 6ers in their 6, and a true top pair of dmen? Half? Oh, and a requisite proper goalie.
Anyone else remember the 3rd periods of games in the 1980's, when a team was down a goal? Now, you only see that insane competitive effort to get a GTG in the playoffs. That lack of effort you see now easily trumps any increases in overall talent level. A lack of skill can be replaced by hard work. Overpaid lazy "stars" littered the league and led to buyouts galore.
Unless the skill levels are increasing of the average kid coming up the ranks, adding more teams waters down talent. Are players graduating to the bigs better than ever now? Taking away fighters and replacing them with grinders helps bump talent a little, but not in the high end talent dept.
Florida? Last I watched their arena was empty. And the KHL among other leagues have to tap into our talent pool in some regard.
So how many teams can boast all top 6ers in their 6, and a true top pair of dmen? Half? Oh, and a requisite proper goalie.
txpd
Registered User
adding more teams waters down talent unless you find new sources of talent. you can't deny that there are A LOT more high quality American players in the NHL today than 20 years ago or when the Caps came into the league. The Caps defense alone screams that.
When Fedorov was in the league Scandinavian players were rare and eastern block players almost unheard of. Now they are common place. Again the Caps are a good example of that. Russians and Swedes and Americans with some Canadians.
Look at Hockey USA and look at the players coming out of California now. These are new sources of players.
Do you honestly think Orlov and Schmidt are bottom pairing guys 15 years ago?
Hivemind
We're Touched
Randy, you didn't understand my post at all.
The games are more competitive because the skill level, strength, and conditioning of prospects and players todays are exceptionally higher than they were a generation ago. It's pretty much unquestionable that the players in the NHL are better than ever.
This universal raise in skill level is what's causing the increased parity. Adding more teams helps reduce that parity, and enables an environment in which the exceptionally skilled players can shine more often.
"Watering down" of talent helps the true talent shine. Condensing the talent simply means that exceptional players are forced to play tight, systems-oriented hockey and rarely get to show their skill.
The games are more competitive because the skill level, strength, and conditioning of prospects and players todays are exceptionally higher than they were a generation ago. It's pretty much unquestionable that the players in the NHL are better than ever.
This universal raise in skill level is what's causing the increased parity. Adding more teams helps reduce that parity, and enables an environment in which the exceptionally skilled players can shine more often.
"Watering down" of talent helps the true talent shine. Condensing the talent simply means that exceptional players are forced to play tight, systems-oriented hockey and rarely get to show their skill.
RandyHolt
Keep truckin'
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Too many for me to count. How many collective cap circumventing moves have GMs undertaken? Too many for you to count.
Schultz was a gift buyout. Somehow George got rid of Nylander, one of his best moves of all time strong arming him to the IHL. Many wanted Laich bought out. And that's just here with George running a pretty tight ship.
We are "star laden" because we got Ovi. Make no mistake. Our core 6 are draft picks. Ovi Kuz Nick Carlson Alzner and Holtby. A cap or no cap, no pun intended, would not change that.
Yes the salary cap has led to teams not able to hold onto all their stars, but in the end when GMs are allowed to dump contracts, Betty has to face criticism for letting the situation get to that point. The spirit of the cap was being broken and he did nothing, well, other than grant gift buyouts as presumed personal favors to the owners with the worst GMs.
Hivemind
We're Touched
The Capitals couldn't afford to hang onto draft pick Scott Stevens. What makes you think they'd be able to hang onto Ovie when Philadelphia or Toronto could offer $20M+ a season?
Calicaps
NFA
Different ownership with a completely different mindset about marketing. Leonsis was 100% not letting Ovie go.
Corby78
65 - 10 - 20
I disagree. Florida/Atlanta/Phoenix all were or are not supported. Las Vegas is a complete joke of a place to have a hockey team (they don't even support the minor league team). Carolina has also struggled to support their team. I understand his drive has been to get teams into bigger markets, but constantly fails to sell the brand. You can't just throw a team in the SE and expect fans to flock.
I understand he makes money and that is why the owners love him. I just don't think he is good for the game, and that is what I care about.
g00n
Retired Global Mod
- Nov 22, 2007
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The NHL lost a season partly because Bettman over-expanded and needed a system in place to protect the smaller market teams, present and future, via the salary cap and profit sharing. GB was willing to torpedo an entire season to get it, and the owners went along with him because they didn't really have any choice.
It had a bad look at the time. Ultimately, it probably had to be done, though.
Whether displaced or not, my main gripe with Bettman is how the league has pushed to be as soccer-mom friendly as possible on his watch, with wacky rule changes and just general taming of the game for casual fans. How much has the game really grown in audience as a result? I'm not talking total revenue, but attendance league-wide as well as TV ratings compared to when he took over? It may not be a fair comparison since the media landscape has changed a lot since then, with the internet and various other sports networks popping up.
Still, Bettman will be the commish as long as the owners assets are increasing in value. It has nothing to do with the integrity of the game or any romantic notion I or others might have.
It had a bad look at the time. Ultimately, it probably had to be done, though.
Whether displaced or not, my main gripe with Bettman is how the league has pushed to be as soccer-mom friendly as possible on his watch, with wacky rule changes and just general taming of the game for casual fans. How much has the game really grown in audience as a result? I'm not talking total revenue, but attendance league-wide as well as TV ratings compared to when he took over? It may not be a fair comparison since the media landscape has changed a lot since then, with the internet and various other sports networks popping up.
Still, Bettman will be the commish as long as the owners assets are increasing in value. It has nothing to do with the integrity of the game or any romantic notion I or others might have.
Hivemind
We're Touched
Bettman became commissioner in February 1993. At that point, San Jose, Ottawa, and Tampa Bay were already functioning franchises. Florida and Anaheim had been awarded expansion franchises in December 1992, also before Bettman took office. In other words, five of the nine expansion teams were already in place before Bettman.
The North Stars moved to Dallas in the fall of 1993, however, they had stripped the "North" from their name back in 1991 and attempted to move the franchise to Anaheim before the Ducks were announced. That team was clearly on the move before Bettman took office.
Prior to getting an expansion team, Nashville tried to lure the Devils out of New Jersey. Bettman actually stepped in to help the Devils stay in New Jersey.
I don't know what anyone expected Bettman to have to done to keep Hartford from moving. Karmanos didn't want to stay in Hartford, and had serious disagreements with the governor of Connecticut. It got to the point where Karmanos announced the team was leaving Connecticut before he even settling on a new home. Unless you expected Gary Bettman to go out and buy a few thousand season tickets himself and force people to attend rallies, I really don't know what you think could have been done to prevent that move.
The North Stars moved to Dallas in the fall of 1993, however, they had stripped the "North" from their name back in 1991 and attempted to move the franchise to Anaheim before the Ducks were announced. That team was clearly on the move before Bettman took office.
Prior to getting an expansion team, Nashville tried to lure the Devils out of New Jersey. Bettman actually stepped in to help the Devils stay in New Jersey.
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/07/14/s...nd-new-jersey-call-truce-and-strike-deal.html
I don't know what anyone expected Bettman to have to done to keep Hartford from moving. Karmanos didn't want to stay in Hartford, and had serious disagreements with the governor of Connecticut. It got to the point where Karmanos announced the team was leaving Connecticut before he even settling on a new home. Unless you expected Gary Bettman to go out and buy a few thousand season tickets himself and force people to attend rallies, I really don't know what you think could have been done to prevent that move.
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