Hmmm.....does it really make much of a difference? None of those guys will be part of the team a few years from now regardless. Neil & Phillips will be retired, and Wier & Gryba are just placeholders until better players come along.
Murray admitted that he turned down better offers in the Fisher deal so he could trade him to Nashville, not sure I'd use that as a good example. I really can't think of one visible benefit that has come from Murray's player loyalty so far. We got extra multiple years out of Chris Phillips and Chris Neil.. yay? Both of those guys should of been traded 4 years ago when we could actually get good value for them while we were rebuilding (I'd include Spezza in that list too). Not related, but more example of wasted assets were all those UFA's we never traded and had allowed to walk away for nothing, so much wasted assets. That's basically how I could summarize the Sens for the past 7 years.
Results should be what earns loyalty, and when the results clearly stop, the loyalty goes with it. That's the way championship teams do things.
It's a great accomplishment that Phillips is about to break the franchise GP record, but he really shouldn't have come close to it if we're being real here.
Simmer on return for Neil: "At the very least, you end up with a 2nd round pick"
Good post earlier. Add to this that both have young families & if traded would be away from their wife & kids & for a number of months. You have to ask how the wife feels having to do everything around the house for the rest of winter while her husband is in another city playing hockey unable to help with anything. While we think it's not that big a deal to move to another team it disrupts a great deal with hockey families to be traded to another city. I guess Lazar would assume all of Phillip's responsibility at home since he would still be living in Phillip's basement or does it mean if Phillips gets traded Lazar gets kicked out?
I'd be surprised if either one of Neil or Phillips get traded this yr although if Neil goes anywhere I could see him going to Nashville to play with his buddy Fisher. My guess is that one of Neil or Legwand will get traded to Nashville at the deadline & the other is traded to Nashville this summer or at next yr's deadline while Phillips retires a Sen after next season.
I wouldn't be surprised though to see BM go after one of Hall or Kane between now & next season maybe at the draft. If Ottawa is not going to be drafting in the top 10 then why not add their 1st in a deal that will bring back a very good young top 6 forward who can play right now. I'd rather have one of Kane or Hall then whoever they get with the 11th or 12th pick since they can help right now & not three yrs from now.
So much bitterness here. Often I am disgusted by some of the attitudes shown here by some fans, and this is yet another example, especially given that it is all based on speculation and rumour.
Neither Neiler nor Phillips control if Murray trades them or not, they do have every right to answer honestly though when asked if they would like to be moved. Wanting to stay with the only team you have played for until the end, is a much stronger and more courageous stance to take, then to jump ship to the best team possible in hopes of winning a championship with a team you have nothing to do with. The fact that some of you can see that is beyond sad, for you. Winning is not actually the first and only priority for people, and nor should it be.
They have played here long enough to be afforded that respect, by our GM, who seems to value the interpersonal relationships that are formed between people.
The excitement shown here by people drooling over trading legacy players for 3rd round picks is astonishing, though it seems to fit with the increased role that video games play in people's lives, and with current entitled generation. Big on opinions, small on wisdom.
So many so quick to put their own entertainment in front of the lives and livelihoods of others, willing to toss away good people when they feel they are no longer good enough to satisfy whatever standards they have set.
The "hockey is a business" crowd that is so ready to adopt this mantra, the same ideals that lead banks and financial institutions to screw millions of people without and sense of moral obligation. Hockey is a big family, and a community, and yet some posters here demand that it become something colder, less loyal, less respectful. When did these become admirable traits?
Personally I despise people who force others to operate under those conditions, and I feel sorry for those who celebrate them as though they are something to aspire to.
There's my rant of the day, flame away...
Exactly
It's kind of concerning that people would rather have 2 mid round picks rather than see career Senators like Phillips and Neil ending their career with the Sens. It's pretty telling of the fanbase IMO. I mean a team (recent franchise only) that has 0 zero history. But let's trade the chance to add a little bit of history for a david Dziursysnrktyed and a Zack Smith! (if all pans out)
It's kind of concerning that people would rather have 2 mid round picks rather than see career Senators like Phillips and Neil ending their career with the Sens. It's pretty telling of the fanbase IMO. I mean a team (recent franchise only) that has 0 zero history. But let's trade the chance to add a little bit of history for a david Dziursysnrktyed and a Zack Smith! (if all pans out)l
Wrt Fisher, a better deal could have been a pick one or two spots higher, or it could have been a 5th rounder tossed in. I imagine had the difference been substantial, Murray would have taken the offer or used it as leverage to get some more out of Nashville. Who knows.
I also think it's unfair to use hindsight to prove that we should have moved players earlier. Phillip's play declined, and not trading him back when we moved Fisher is clearly an error now, but at the time, he still provided lots of value to the team. Had he kept his play up, or at least declined more gracefully, nobody would be complaining. Re-signing him last year instead of moving him at the deadline is probably the bigger mistake (not taking hindsight into account).
About Fisher, nobody knows what the difference was, just Murray's own words that better offers were turned down. If it was an extra 5th or a spot or two higher then I agree with trading him to Nashville, otherwise it's not a wise move.
I can also get behind your take on the Phillips situation, at the very least I don't understand how a two year extension was given instead of a one year deal. Even at the time that contract was a little too long.
2 mid round picks + 2 players who will most likely play better >> 2 aging veterans who are more suited to be the 7th D and 13th forward
because mid round picks can only be AHLers and 4th liners.
This is the same garbage you usually cry about.
because mid round picks can only be AHLers and 4th liners.
This is the same garbage you usually cry about.
An average of 4 guys drafted in the fourth round end up having careers that last longer than 100 games.
The vast majority of fourth round picks play less then 10.
Its a borderline crapshoot.
Fair, but at the same time Chara, Weber, Keith and Subban, winners and contenders for the Norris for the past 6 years were second round picks (Chara may have been a 3rd).
Second round picks have value.
Fair, but at the same time Chara, Weber, Keith and Subban, winners and contenders for the Norris for the past 6 years were second round picks (Chara may have been a 3rd). Karlsson is the first line outlier winner.
Second round picks have value.
In the long-term, yes. For THIS season where we are going to get a great draft pick despite not even being that bad (20-20-9, 137 GF, 137 GA, losing a lot of 1 goal games), no. Might as well have some vets who have been here all their career to take some pressure of the younger ones and show them the work ethic, teaching them how to be pros, leadership etc. Their salary doesn't put the team tight to the cap (actually they barely reach the cap floor) and they are here until younger prospects in the younger in the organization prove they can steal their spots, and this year Ceci, Lazar, Stone, Hoffman and Pageau have graduated... I mean, it's not enough? We should have 10 rookies every year? lolz
Neil is already the 13th forward, Phillips would be a lot lower on the depth chart had Methot been healthy all season. We should know that like 2 + 2 = 4
I don't completely disagree, but I would rephrase that. Second round picks do not have a lot of value, but there is value to having a lot of second round picks. If you have a lot of picks you are more likely to find something good in the pile.
Thing is it was a wise move, or else you are calling professionals (not just Murray, he works with plenty of people and many have their say on moves like this) with a lot of experience idiots. It was a calculated move, they spent hours talking about the situation, which probably cost a lot more than what the average poster earns in 1 month, and evaluated the pros and cons, and finally opted for the most sensible decision... That's how t works in the real world, they didn't get the idea from a PlayStation game.
Is it just me or is wanting to stick with the team despite the struggles something positive in a player? If the young guys are around to see that won't it teach them to not give up on the team?