Rumor: 2014/2015 Season Trade Rumours and Proposals VII - and a title to be named later

[Samsens]

Simmer on return for Neil: "At the very least, you end up with a 2nd round pick"

 

[Xspyrit]

Hmmm.....does it really make much of a difference? None of those guys will be part of the team a few years from now regardless. Neil & Phillips will be retired, and Wier & Gryba are just placeholders until better players come along.

Exactly

It's kind of concerning that people would rather have 2 mid round picks rather than see career Senators like Phillips and Neil ending their career with the Sens. It's pretty telling of the fanbase IMO. I mean a team (recent franchise only) that has 0 zero history. But let's trade the chance to add a little bit of history for a david Dziursysnrktyed and a Zack Smith! (if all pans out)

Murray admitted that he turned down better offers in the Fisher deal so he could trade him to Nashville, not sure I'd use that as a good example. I really can't think of one visible benefit that has come from Murray's player loyalty so far. We got extra multiple years out of Chris Phillips and Chris Neil.. yay? Both of those guys should of been traded 4 years ago when we could actually get good value for them while we were rebuilding (I'd include Spezza in that list too). Not related, but more example of wasted assets were all those UFA's we never traded and had allowed to walk away for nothing, so much wasted assets. That's basically how I could summarize the Sens for the past 7 years.

Results should be what earns loyalty, and when the results clearly stop, the loyalty goes with it. That's the way championship teams do things.

It's a great accomplishment that Phillips is about to break the franchise GP record, but he really shouldn't have come close to it if we're being real here.

NHL teams don't operate like this, they don't see their players only as products. If other teams could use them, so should they...

And about wasted assets... Please make a list of all the UFAs the Sens let walk away for nothing, and then do the same work for every other team. Maybe then you'd realize you are being foolish and only talking out of your hat, which is a big trend on this board. But yeah, let's keep this up and not use our brains. It's all about sensationalism and propaganda anyway

Outside of Alfie, who was 40 freaking years old, there wasn't a lot of significant UFAs who walked away for nothing (at least under Murray), unless Gonchar at 39 y/o and Volchenkov are the players you are talking about that, which is ridiculous because everyone and their dog understood right away that it would have been a mistake to re-sign them. Think Michalek x 2 worse

Simmer on return for Neil: "At the very least, you end up with a 2nd round pick"

But Neil is crap and has no value, that's what I read a thousand times here. His contract is unmovable lol

 

[Icelevel]

Reality

phillips right now is our 6/7th dman. next yr? should be our 7/8th.

neil is a 12th forward. next yr? should be 12/13th.

Why on earth would you stick around and end your career like that when there is an opportunity to win the stanley cup being offered to you? The stanley cup is the whole reason you play hockey. if it is not, then just retire.

The career with the senators has to end at some point. Is a few months in a senators jersey worth throwing away a chance to win it all?

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Good post earlier. Add to this that both have young families & if traded would be away from their wife & kids & for a number of months. You have to ask how the wife feels having to do everything around the house for the rest of winter while her husband is in another city playing hockey unable to help with anything. While we think it's not that big a deal to move to another team it disrupts a great deal with hockey families to be traded to another city. I guess Lazar would assume all of Phillip's responsibility at home since he would still be living in Phillip's basement or does it mean if Phillips gets traded Lazar gets kicked out?

I'd be surprised if either one of Neil or Phillips get traded this yr although if Neil goes anywhere I could see him going to Nashville to play with his buddy Fisher. My guess is that one of Neil or Legwand will get traded to Nashville at the deadline & the other is traded to Nashville this summer or at next yr's deadline while Phillips retires a Sen after next season.

I wouldn't be surprised though to see BM go after one of Hall or Kane between now & next season maybe at the draft. If Ottawa is not going to be drafting in the top 10 then why not add their 1st in a deal that will bring back a very good young top 6 forward who can play right now. I'd rather have one of Kane or Hall then whoever they get with the 11th or 12th pick since they can help right now & not three yrs from now.

Lazar is the man of the house now

 

[Sens Rule]

So much bitterness here. Often I am disgusted by some of the attitudes shown here by some fans, and this is yet another example, especially given that it is all based on speculation and rumour.

Neither Neiler nor Phillips control if Murray trades them or not, they do have every right to answer honestly though when asked if they would like to be moved. Wanting to stay with the only team you have played for until the end, is a much stronger and more courageous stance to take, then to jump ship to the best team possible in hopes of winning a championship with a team you have nothing to do with. The fact that some of you can see that is beyond sad, for you. Winning is not actually the first and only priority for people, and nor should it be.

They have played here long enough to be afforded that respect, by our GM, who seems to value the interpersonal relationships that are formed between people.

The excitement shown here by people drooling over trading legacy players for 3rd round picks is astonishing, though it seems to fit with the increased role that video games play in people's lives, and with current entitled generation. Big on opinions, small on wisdom.

So many so quick to put their own entertainment in front of the lives and livelihoods of others, willing to toss away good people when they feel they are no longer good enough to satisfy whatever standards they have set.

The "hockey is a business" crowd that is so ready to adopt this mantra, the same ideals that lead banks and financial institutions to screw millions of people without and sense of moral obligation. Hockey is a big family, and a community, and yet some posters here demand that it become something colder, less loyal, less respectful. When did these become admirable traits?

Personally I despise people who force others to operate under those conditions, and I feel sorry for those who celebrate them as though they are something to aspire to.

There's my rant of the day, flame away...

Totally agreed. Between the two of them they have well over 2000 games for us (yes I said us). Comes naturally to say US. Such is the ownership the team and the players get in a city from the fanbase that has been through two decades with THEM. The team.

How many stitches have they had sewn up for this team? Neil probably has had 200 fights for OUR team.

It does mean something to give them thd respect to let them decide if they get traded. Murray gets it. Neil and Phillips get it. Lazar is living with freaking Phillips.

Neil was "washed up" on these boards when he laid like 60+ hits and was pivotal in the last series we won vs the Habs. Phillips might struggle sometimes but he was pretty freaking good playing 25+ minutes at the start of the season with Karlsson when Methot could not play. He definitely helped win some games this year.

They are signed to contracts for another year. They are lucky to make millions of dollars and play hockey for a living.... And they know that and have been giving back to the community for a decade and a half.

Complaining about them or attacking their character is ridiculous. I wonder if many who do have ever held a job or had a family. I live in Ottawa. I would not leave for more $$$. All my friends are here. My family is here. My extended family is here. Two guys want to stay in a city they have raised their kids in. Got married in... Helped build a hockey franchise in... Wow how human of them.

The best is calling Murray "soft" for keeping Neil. Lol.

People still go to games to watch Neil fight. Neil faught vs Phoenix... Got an ovation. Neil and Phillips are worth more here as 6/7 D or depth winger then a couple of picks... If they want to stay. Not hurting the team. Not even taking anyone's job. We are running 8 D. We have no other fighter. They aren't hurting our Cap or the payroll of the team.

Anyway go back to disrespecting our legacy players.......

 

[Benjamin]

They are allowed to move back to Ottawa whenever they want.

 

[God Says No]

Exactly

It's kind of concerning that people would rather have 2 mid round picks rather than see career Senators like Phillips and Neil ending their career with the Sens. It's pretty telling of the fanbase IMO. I mean a team (recent franchise only) that has 0 zero history. But let's trade the chance to add a little bit of history for a david Dziursysnrktyed and a Zack Smith! (if all pans out)

2 mid round picks + 2 players who will most likely play better >> 2 aging veterans who are more suited to be the 7th D and 13th forward

 

[Proust*]

The chance to turn a 4th liner into a 2nd round pick doesn't come along very often. It would be tragic to squander this opportunity.

Let's hope Murray does what is good for the team.

 

[Senscore]

If we can get a 2nd in this draft for Neil holy **** do it now now now now now now no take backs.

 

[Benjamin]

It's kind of concerning that people would rather have 2 mid round picks rather than see career Senators like Phillips and Neil ending their career with the Sens. It's pretty telling of the fanbase IMO. I mean a team (recent franchise only) that has 0 zero history. But let's trade the chance to add a little bit of history for a david Dziursysnrktyed and a Zack Smith! (if all pans out)l

because mid round picks can only be AHLers and 4th liners.

This is the same garbage you usually cry about.

 

[Xspyrit]

What I forgot to add earlier is that you move Neil and/or Phillips if they want to take their chance with a contender. You don't move them just to get a 3rd and a 5th. We already have plenty of prospect depth and not a lot of roster spots available in the next few years (Let's start finding spots for Paul, Prince and Puempel for example). At defense it's the same, Wikstrand, Harpur, Claesson, Englund and Wideman are all knocking at the door, or will be in the near future.

Wrt Fisher, a better deal could have been a pick one or two spots higher, or it could have been a 5th rounder tossed in. I imagine had the difference been substantial, Murray would have taken the offer or used it as leverage to get some more out of Nashville. Who knows.

I also think it's unfair to use hindsight to prove that we should have moved players earlier. Phillip's play declined, and not trading him back when we moved Fisher is clearly an error now, but at the time, he still provided lots of value to the team. Had he kept his play up, or at least declined more gracefully, nobody would be complaining. Re-signing him last year instead of moving him at the deadline is probably the bigger mistake (not taking hindsight into account).

No, clearly Murray turned down the opportunity to get Diego Armando Maradona

Also, am I the only one who think re-signing or not re-signing Chris Phillips wouldn't have changed a damn thing? Ok maybe 1 more win in the season? Team would still be very young and inexperienced (even more) and at the same spot in the standings.

About Fisher, nobody knows what the difference was, just Murray's own words that better offers were turned down. If it was an extra 5th or a spot or two higher then I agree with trading him to Nashville, otherwise it's not a wise move.

I can also get behind your take on the Phillips situation, at the very least I don't understand how a two year extension was given instead of a one year deal. Even at the time that contract was a little too long.

Thing is it was a wise move, or else you are calling professionals (not just Murray, he works with plenty of people and many have their say on moves like this) with a lot of experience idiots. It was a calculated move, they spent hours talking about the situation, which probably cost a lot more than what the average poster earns in 1 month, and evaluated the pros and cons, and finally opted for the most sensible decision... That's how t works in the real world, they didn't get the idea from a PlayStation game.

And anyway, Sens got a 1st and 3rd round pick out of Fisher. Majority here considered Fisher overpaid, so if there was any logic here, the Sens would have sent a better pick than what they got? In HF Sens opinion, this deal should be viewed as a killer deal, but only if people were a bit consequent but I'm scared that is a notion that many are not even aware of.

2 mid round picks + 2 players who will most likely play better >> 2 aging veterans who are more suited to be the 7th D and 13th forward

In the long-term, yes. For THIS season where we are going to get a great draft pick despite not even being that bad (20-20-9, 137 GF, 137 GA, losing a lot of 1 goal games), no. Might as well have some vets who have been here all their career to take some pressure of the younger ones and show them the work ethic, teaching them how to be pros, leadership etc. Their salary doesn't put the team tight to the cap (actually they barely reach the cap floor) and they are here until younger prospects in the younger in the organization prove they can steal their spots, and this year Ceci, Lazar, Stone, Hoffman and Pageau have graduated... I mean, it's not enough? We should have 10 rookies every year? lolz

Neil is already the 13th forward, Phillips would be a lot lower on the depth chart had Methot been healthy all season. We should know that like 2 + 2 = 4

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I would love to see Phillips and Neil end they're career as senators. Unless there are legitimate offers on the table for them that can help us in the future. Not 4th 5th 6th round picks. Legitimate offers.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

because mid round picks can only be AHLers and 4th liners.

This is the same garbage you usually cry about.

The probability of them becoming AHLers or 4th liners or even worse is pretty high though.

Unless it's a killer deal it would be cooler for me to watch Neil retire as a Senator if he really doesn't want to leave.

I still think he could be dealt at the deadline though.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

because mid round picks can only be AHLers and 4th liners.

This is the same garbage you usually cry about.

An average of 4 guys drafted in the fourth round end up having careers that last longer than 100 games.

The vast majority of fourth round picks play less then 10.

Its a borderline crapshoot.

 

[Benjamin]

I get that but no one can deny there is a chance to get a quality player from anywhere in the draft.

 

[Bileur]

An average of 4 guys drafted in the fourth round end up having careers that last longer than 100 games.

The vast majority of fourth round picks play less then 10.

Its a borderline crapshoot.

Fair, but at the same time Chara, Weber, Keith and Subban, winners and contenders for the Norris for the past 6 years were second round picks (Chara may have been a 3rd). Karlsson is the first line outlier winner.

Second round picks have value.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Fair, but at the same time Chara, Weber, Keith and Subban, winners and contenders for the Norris for the past 6 years were second round picks (Chara may have been a 3rd).

Second round picks have value.

Oh I agree, even fourth round picks have value. Its not just not all that much

 

[StefanW]

Fair, but at the same time Chara, Weber, Keith and Subban, winners and contenders for the Norris for the past 6 years were second round picks (Chara may have been a 3rd). Karlsson is the first line outlier winner.

Second round picks have value.

I don't completely disagree, but I would rephrase that. Second round picks do not have a lot of value, but there is value to having a lot of second round picks. If you have a lot of picks you are more likely to find something good in the pile.

 

[God Says No]

In the long-term, yes. For THIS season where we are going to get a great draft pick despite not even being that bad (20-20-9, 137 GF, 137 GA, losing a lot of 1 goal games), no. Might as well have some vets who have been here all their career to take some pressure of the younger ones and show them the work ethic, teaching them how to be pros, leadership etc. Their salary doesn't put the team tight to the cap (actually they barely reach the cap floor) and they are here until younger prospects in the younger in the organization prove they can steal their spots, and this year Ceci, Lazar, Stone, Hoffman and Pageau have graduated... I mean, it's not enough? We should have 10 rookies every year? lolz

Neil is already the 13th forward, Phillips would be a lot lower on the depth chart had Methot been healthy all season. We should know that like 2 + 2 = 4

Whether it be the future OR this season, I'd argue this is the correct move. We already have enough vets to show the ropes. Ryan, Mac, Karlsson, Methot, Andy, etc... Having 2 extra vets is not going to make a world of difference this year in that regard in my opinion.

I'm not asking for 10 rookies in the lineup. I'm asking for players who should be playing based on their skill in the lineup. If that happens to be 10 rookies, then be it. If that happens to be ten forty year old veterans, then so be it as well.

Waiting for Edmonton to be your counter argument in 3, 2, 1...

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

You deal Neil for a 2nd round pick every time of the week, especially in a draft like this one.

Could be a star player who fell to 2nd round. Like Weber and Josi's of 2003 and 2008.

 

[Bileur]

I don't completely disagree, but I would rephrase that. Second round picks do not have a lot of value, but there is value to having a lot of second round picks. If you have a lot of picks you are more likely to find something good in the pile.

Sure, agreed.

 

[h2]

Thing is it was a wise move, or else you are calling professionals (not just Murray, he works with plenty of people and many have their say on moves like this) with a lot of experience idiots. It was a calculated move, they spent hours talking about the situation, which probably cost a lot more than what the average poster earns in 1 month, and evaluated the pros and cons, and finally opted for the most sensible decision... That's how t works in the real world, they didn't get the idea from a PlayStation game.

This makes no sense. I suppose I shouldn't say Milbury is dumb because he was wise because he was a professional and has experience. I don't understand why we as fans are so sensitive to critiquing our own management. We've been bad for 7 years now, there isn't a whole lot of wise moves going on with this franchise during that time. Murray has done some good, but he's done some equally bad as well, our current place in the standings reflect this. There's nothing wrong in admitting this fact.

 

[saskriders]

Is it just me or is wanting to stick with the team despite the struggles something positive in a player? If the young guys are around to see that won't it teach them to not give up on the team?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

If people are going to bring up "well of you say this than you are calling the professionals who made the decision dumb" then what is he point of even discussing anything concerning our team?
Some here absolutely love playing that card once you disagree with an idea of theirs that they share with management.

 

[StefanW]

Is it just me or is wanting to stick with the team despite the struggles something positive in a player? If the young guys are around to see that won't it teach them to not give up on the team?

I see it as a huge positive. The flip side is that when a player's skill regress to the point where the player is not in the lineup much then it makes sense to move the player.

I really like Phillips and Neil and I think both are often treated somewhat unfairly by fans at times. In the end I am 100% fine with letting the decide whether they want to be moved. They've earned that much from the team.