Salary Cap: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster Building / Proposal Thread Part IX

[jerseyjinx94]

I understand your fears but Taylor Hall is a long term investment. These types of players don't become available all that often. If he is available, you get him and then back-fill. It's much harder to find a 23 year old top line winger then a defenseman who can eat some minutes.

Again I understand the fear but Staal may not be someone the Rangers want to invest in long term either. It may take until the offseason to replace those 22 minutes on defense but it may be another 10 years before a player like Hall is out there

Yeah. You can go and add a LD like Sekera in another trade. It doesn't have to be the same trade. This is also a viable point, about the long term investment, although I don't know if we should be doing this again. We have our long term investments. Are you really willing to move Kreider, Miller, Hayes, or Duclair? Because one will have to be part of the deal. And they are all relatively cost efficient players, who are ready or nearly ready, when we are up against the cap significantly with tons of players to replace/re-sign. I don't think moving NHL ready cheap talent is very smart right now.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I would love to add Taylor Hall. But with the salary cap, it may not be smart to have Hank (8.5) Nash (7.8) and Hall (6) on the same roster. That's 22.3 million in 3 players. Plus I wonder what trading Zucc and/or Hagelin will do to the camaraderie and locker room chemistry. Those two are pretty important beyond just their production on the ice. There's really no room for Hall without moving a winger in the deal, and I can't really find one that I want to give up

Salary cap is a fair point and messing with locker room chemistry is not a good enough reason to not make a trade for a big upgrade.

They traded their captain last season and it worked out just fine. Perhaps maybe that speaks more about the person they moved but these guys are professionals.


To your point above, Hall would get the same return as Seguin did, maybe a bit less. In hindsight that move looks like a total steal for Dallas but they moved a ton of assets to make that deal happen. Despite that, I would say no winger in this organization would be untouchable for a player like Hall.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Salary cap is a fair point and messing with locker room chemistry is not a good enough reason to not make a trade for a big upgrade.

I just think Brass, Zucc, and Hags, are all good friends and may mess with their game, I don't know. They are human these games aren't played in a spreadsheet. Not saying it would hold me back from doing it just saying I don't know if that's the right approach.

They traded their captain last season and it worked out just fine. Perhaps maybe that speaks more about the person they moved but these guys are professionals.

Zucc/Hags seem to be well-liked by everyone in the room. It's a different scenario. Again, not saying it would hold up the deal but it's a consideration. You can't just assemble good numbers and good players without chemistry and system in mind.

Hall would get the same return as Seguin did, maybe a bit less. In hindsight that move looks like a total steal for Dallas but they moved a ton of assets to make that deal happen.

Dallas gave up a ton. Smith and Eriksson alone is nothing to sneeze at. At the time, Eriksson was a stud.

 

[TheTakedown]

as much as I would want to, trading for Hall would absolutely kill us short term... I think in 2 years we'd be able to recoup some of the depth, but trading for Hall would be similar to trading for Nash again... not to mention trying to make the cap work... we'd have to pull up like 3 more rookies next year...

The depth is nice if you consider Hall in a vaccuum, but I'm not sure it's the right move unless you get him for scraps...

i Think the better option is to go after yak... his stock is much lower, he's just as talented, and coming off a $900k ELC, therefore can be put on a slightly larger bridge contract

 

[BroadwayBlues]

If they trade for Hall, they may take a step back. But in a year or two, rebound.

Staal, Kreider, McIlrath, pick, is a steal.

They are deep on the wings, but not enough elite talent. It's a big reason why they have trouble 'finishing'.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Nah he is right. Only Patrick Kane is better.

Seriously, singling him out because of the flawed system and preferring to keep Staal over him is insanity. I think Eberle/Hall are always linked together with playing styles when they're not even comparable.

Hall is top five in PPG production the past three seasons.

Prior to Eakins' atrocity of a system, he was one of the best possession wingers in thr league.

Wherever trades for him is getting a superstar high-end franchise talent.

Franchise talent, yes. Better than Ovechkin. Not even on steroids. Nor Perry, nor Kessel. Look, I don't even get advanced stats or "CF,"butI won't call them worthless. BUT you can't look at a guy,see that situational stats are good, and say he's as good as those stats. This harkens back to Marek Malik's astronomical +/- of '06 (I was a Malik fan btw).

Like someone mentioned, his game is pretty incohesive and he'd be among the worst back-checkers on our team. However, being the offensive monster he unmistakably is, no, Staal, now an average top-4, would NEVER return a franchise star.

 

[Cassano]

What Seguin returned wasn't all that great either though.

Yeah, but Seguin wasn't as good as Hall is right now at the time of the trade.

Also Eriksson/Fraser/Reilly/Morrow is a far better package than Staal/1st IMO.

 

[Cassano]

Franchise talent, yes. Better than Ovechkin. Not even on steroids. Nor Perry, nor Kessel. Look, I don't even get advanced stats or "CF,"butI won't call them worthless. BUT you can't look at a guy,see that situational stats are good, and say he's as good as those stats. This harkens back to Marek Malik's astronomical +/- of '06 (I was a Malik fan btw).

Like someone mentioned, his game is pretty incohesive and he'd be among the worst back-checkers on our team. However, being the offensive monster he unmistakably is, no, Staal, now an average top-4, would NEVER return a franchise star.

I don't think he'd be the worst back checkers on the team. He's been generally a good PKer in Juniors and had at least a couple of breakaways a game shorthanded with Windsor. Just like how Nash has evolved into one of the Rangers better defensive forwards with the right coaching structure.

Ovechkin isn't better than Hall now lol.

Over the past 2 completed season the only players that have outpaced Hall are Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos and Getzlaf.

Notice how the other 4 are the 4 best forwards in the league!?

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Hall would require one of two packages: 1. McDonagh as the centerpiece, 2. Stepan + Staal as the centerpierce.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Ovechkin isn't better than Hall now lol.

Re-think this...

 

[haveandare]

Hall would require one of two packages: 1. McDonagh as the centerpiece, 2. Stepan + Staal as the centerpierce.

Then I persoanlly wouldn't even consider it. The team needs. 1D and 1C way, way more than another big cap hit winger.

I'm not interested in hall much at all for this team really. They aren't built in a way that makes him a need or even a realistic possibility IMO.

 

[haohmaru]

Notice how the other 4 are the 4 best forwards in the league!?

This is just comparing points over those two seasons?

Hall had 130. St. Louis had 129...

And, again, it's being selective. I'd like to see production numbers over the length of Hall's career vs. other elite wingers. I'm sure Perry, Nash, etc... would stack up favorably.

 

[Cassano]

This is just comparing points over those two seasons?

Hall had 130. St. Louis had 129...

And, again, it's being selective. I'd like to see production numbers over the length of Hall's career vs. other elite wingers. I'm sure Perry, Nash, etc... would stack up favorably.

Points per game.

Not sure what you'd get when comparing from Hall's career onwards. He was a rookie, it has no bearing now. Similar to neglecting Seguin's rookie year. I believe his PPG would still be greater than Nash's though.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

What happened to the talk of Antoine Vermette? As the stats stand today, we are the tied for the second worst team in faceoffs in the league, which is a complete joke. Only buffalo is worse at faceoffs than us!

Depth at all positions is what elite, winning teams have, however I think the center ice position is the most important toward that goal.

Kevin Hayes, like all young kids who first comeup in the NHL,simply do not win faceoffs in this league. This has put more stress on Brassard and especially Stepan, who has been awful in the dots this year so far.

Vermette, is perenially a top 10 faceoff league leader and a really versatile reliable player who plays PP, PK, two-way player who can regularly score ~50 pts and 20 goals.

I would love to see him fill that 3rd line center role flanked by Hayes on his natural position, the wing.

Stepan
Brassard
Vermette
Moore

Could you see NYR acquiring him and for what?

 

[haohmaru]

Points per game.

Not sure what you'd get when comparing from Hall's career onwards. He was a rookie, it has no bearing now. Similar to neglecting Seguin's rookie year. I believe his PPG would still be greater than Nash's though.

Throw out his rookie year and he's still got 4+ seasons of stats, not 2.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

This is just comparing points over those two seasons?

Hall had 130. St. Louis had 129...

And, again, it's being selective. I'd like to see production numbers over the length of Hall's career vs. other elite wingers. I'm sure Perry, Nash, etc... would stack up favorably.

Consider who those players played with in comparison to Hall though. Hes never had a line mate like a Stamkos or Getzlaf, or even a JVR or Backstrom.

Not directed at you, but the Staal+Stepan or McDonagh as center piece packages are pure hyperbole. I don't even think Hall is realistically on the move but in a hypothetical scenario, you'd see a deal more along the lines of a Seguin deal with a bunch of bodies on the move.

 

[Cassano]

Throw out his rookie year and he's still got 4+ seasons of stats, not 2.

Still believe it'd be one of the highest. But he isn't the player he was at 19/20.

 

[haohmaru]

Still believe it'd be one of the highest. But he isn't the player he was at 19/20.

Yeah, probably. I don't put him 2nd though and there's more to it than points per game.

I get that Perry's got Getzlaf etc... but Perry brings a lot more to the table than points. So does Nash. I'd pretty much take Nash, 2014-2015 edition, over just about any wing in the league not named Patrick Kane.

 

[Mikos87]

I understand your fears but Taylor Hall is a long term investment. These types of players don't become available all that often. If he is available, you get him and then back-fill. It's much harder to find a 23 year old top line winger then a defenseman who can eat some minutes.

Again I understand the fear but Staal may not be someone the Rangers want to invest in long term either. It may take until the offseason to replace those 22 minutes on defense but it may be another 10 years before a player like Hall is out there

Without a doubt, if the Rangers push out Staal, Kreider and JMoore out of the current line up with futures, and get a Hall and Sekera, I'm game.

The team would be an injury or two away from not contending but thats a scenario that I can live with.

2 things however, I highly doubt they move Hall to begin with and if they do, it will be an off season move... Mac T might not be the GM moving forward so do they want him making a deal of that magnitude.

Either way I see this current Rangers team needing to upgrade 2 slots from being a true contender and that's 3rd line C/RW and a no 6 LHD.

So I'm expecting smaller scale moves to plug in those holes.

 

[Cassano]

Seems EDM fans are OK with a Staal/Kreider/1st/Glass deal, which is a pretty good hockey trade.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Seems EDM fans are OK with a Staal/Kreider/1st/Glass deal, which is a pretty good hockey trade.

It's a good trade for us when you look at the talent given up, but who will be on our 2nd D pairing? Not that Staal is Larry Robinson mind you, but we still have no one to replace him with.

 

[DanielBrassard]

It's a good trade for us when you look at the talent given up, but who will be on our 2nd D pairing? Not that Staal is Larry Robinson mind you, but we still have no one to replace him with.

Trade for Sekera.

 

[RGY]

Id be very disappointed if we traded Kreider. Would be one of the biggest mistakes this organization makes in a long, long time. Similar to trading a young Zubov. It would be astronomically bad.

 

[Cassano]

Not if you get Hall, it wouldn't.

 

[Kovalev27]

Vermette is the guy

I don't even want hall we have 2 star wingers and a bunch of talented young cheap ones

Zero reason for us to look at him. Call me when he learns to play center