2014-2015 CHL/NCAA/Euro Prospects thread 6.0

[NotProkofievian]

Yeah, I don't see it with Collberg. He was great in his draft year, playing against his own age group, but he's not really taken any steps forward. I think he was clearly the one to trade out of the prospect pool at the time.

I like Lehkonen. There are some concerns with him: I don't know if he's getting bigger and stronger in the off seasons, and he has had two concussions already. However, he has that débrouillard nature to his game that gives me some confidence in him. He should easily eclipse anything Collberg ever did in the SHL this year.

 

[Whitesnake]

I feel like of the group I mentioned, Collberg made the most sense to trade. Collberg is toolsy but had problems scoring against men.

Lehkonen was already a prolific scorer on his team against men.
Reway has the highest offensive upside of any of the listed prospects (attitude, defensive and coachability issues, though).
Andrighetto was one of the top point scorers on the Bulldogs (being closest to NHL ready)
Hudon is skilled, smart but has some durability issues.

Considering that during the time Collberg was still having trouble getting ice time and producing in the AHL, he's definitely worth the gamble to give up out of the five of them. We then drafted Audette as another skilled smallish player. I don't think we are out anything and with the way our prospect pool is coming along, I don't see how a lot of these guys will make it long term with the team. If I'm a betting man, I say we see Lehkonen and Andrighetto in a Habs jersey.. potentially Hudon.. but not sure if we ever see all 3 at once.

I'll say that right now, Lehkonen is my biggest question mark. I really have no idea how his game will translate in the NHL. While I'm more pessimistic for Reway (maybe with no reasons), I also see Andrighetto making it. And Hudon, well not convinced, has he has quite a few things working against him, mainly health.

 

[GREMLIN]

I feel like of the group I mentioned, Collberg made the most sense to trade. Collberg is toolsy but had problems scoring against men

I agree with you guys, I dont see Collberg being anything too special, it would still suck if he turned out to be great, I really wasn't trying to question the trade, when the Vanek trade happened I was watching TSN report it live and they were saying a 2nd + Prospect, I was so scared of who the prospect was, I was relieved when they said it was Collberg (I was expecting it would be Tinner for some reason and I would've been pissed).

I think Collberg was the best guy to trade out of top tier prospects at the time (Beaulieu, Tinordi, McCarron, JDLR, Fucale), maybe Fucale as I'm not a huge fan of his but the reward could be huge in his case if he puts it together so I'm okay with holding on to him. Collberg is probably the one with the least chance of making it out of those guys, I doubt Lehkonen, Ghetto and Reway had good enough value for the Isles to take the deal.

 

[Grant McCagg]

It takes two to tango. It's fine to mention these other guys, but I would suspect the Isles preferred Collberg, so it's irrelevant. They weren't going to do that deal with Hudon...a fifth round pick in the same draft that Collberg went 32nd overall. The Isles had passed on Hudon for four rounds..obviously they weren't that high on him...not like he tore up up the season after he was drafted.

It's not just similar sized prospects we should look at either....he was passed on the depth chart by not only similar sized prospects in Lehkonen and Andri..but also McCarron, DLR and others. There are 13-14 forward roster spots on the club regardless of size, and Collberg was far enough down the depth chart that he was expendable.

Collberg more of a build than Andrighetto? If he does..it's minuscule. He certainly doesn't play harder or with more strength..in fact it's the opposite.

 

[Whitesnake]

It takes two to tango. It's fine to mention these other guys, but I would suspect the Isles preferred Collberg, so it's irrelevant. They weren't going to do that deal with Hudon...a fifth round pick in the same draft that Collberg went 32nd overall. The Isles had passed on Hudon for four rounds..obviously they weren't that high on him...not like he tore up up the season after he was drafted.

It's not just similar sized prospects we should look at either....he was passed on the depth chart by not only similar sized prospects in Lehkonen and Andri..but also McCarron, DLR and others. There are 13-14 forward roster spots on the club regardless of size, and Collberg was far enough down the depth chart that he was expendable.

Collberg more of a build than Andrighetto? If he does..it's minuscule. He certainly doesn't play harder or with more strength..in fact it's the opposite.

True. I did mention that I'm glad we did the deal and would have done it again. Just saying that I don't think you can discard a talented player because "we have already a few of them". If you have a few of them already in the NHL....fine. Yet, you never know about prospects and their ability to make it or not. Not the number that counts....it's the quality of those.

As far as being passed on the depth chart.....would like to know how a 2012 draft pick was already seen as behind those guys? As we keep hearing, the more the year progressed, the more at ease he seemed to be. And it's really not as if he had a whole lot of icetime to look great. I'm pretty sure that this guy in the CHL would have easily been a PPG player...though easy to say when it's almost impossible to predict, I know. But while he wasn't THAT visible at the WJC, he still managed to be close to a PPG. And frankly....we all know that we should be really careful in assessing where a player is based on a WJC.

I remember how ecstatic we were when we picked Collberg. Probably the only HF consensus pick that I've seen in quite a while. Everybody was stunned he had fall to us and that we got him. Personnally, as far as prospects go, I'm not going to go from extremely confidence he'd become something, to "he's passed over" in just 2 years. Still have confidence he can do it. But again.....I still would have done the deal.

 

[WeThreeKings]

True. I did mention that I'm glad we did the deal and would have done it again. Just saying that I don't think you can discard a talented player because "we have already a few of them". If you have a few of them already in the NHL....fine. Yet, you never know about prospects and their ability to make it or not. Not the number that counts....it's the quality of those.

As far as being passed on the depth chart.....would like to know how a 2012 draft pick was already seen as behind those guys? As we keep hearing, the more the year progressed, the more at ease he seemed to be. And it's really not as if he had a whole lot of icetime to look great. I'm pretty sure that this guy in the CHL would have easily been a PPG player...though easy to say when it's almost impossible to predict, I know. But while he wasn't THAT visible at the WJC, he still managed to be close to a PPG. And frankly....we all know that we should be really careful in assessing where a player is based on a WJC.

I remember how ecstatic we were when we picked Collberg. Probably the only HF consensus pick that I've seen in quite a while. Everybody was stunned he had fall to us and that we got him. Personnally, as far as prospects go, I'm not going to go from extremely confidence he'd become something, to "he's passed over" in just 2 years. Still have confidence he can do it. But again.....I still would have done the deal.

No one is a bigger fan of Collberg in his draft year than I was. Look where I took him in the mock draft.

That being said, I understand why he was sent off, for the reasons I already listed. At the time, it would have been a bigger impact to our pool to trade Fucale or DLR as they are both types of players we don't have a lot in our system. If you are going to trade a prospect at a deadline deal, it better be one you have some depth at.

 

[Whitesnake]

No one is a bigger fan of Collberg in his draft year than I was. Look where I took him in the mock draft.

That being said, I understand why he was sent off, for the reasons I already listed. At the time, it would have been a bigger impact to our pool to trade Fucale or DLR as they are both types of players we don't have a lot in our system. If you are going to trade a prospect at a deadline deal, it better be one you have some depth at.

In the end, and it comes down to takes 2 to tango theory, possible that out of Lehkhonen, Andri, Reway, Collberg and Co....if the Isles would have asked for any other.....possible that they would have ended up with that player. Isles specifically asked for Seb...they got him. If they would have asked specifically for Lehkonen or Andri or Reway....would you have said the same?

 

[WeThreeKings]

In the end, and it comes down to takes 2 to tango theory, possible that out of Lehkhonen, Andri, Reway, Collberg and Co....if the Isles would have asked for any other.....possible that they would have ended up with that player. Isles specifically asked for Seb...they got him. If they would have asked specifically for Lehkonen or Andri or Reway....would you have said the same?

Of course. If we make a deadline deal this year I fully expect it to include one of those aforementioned players again.

 

[QuebecPride]

It takes two to tango. It's fine to mention these other guys, but I would suspect the Isles preferred Collberg, so it's irrelevant. They weren't going to do that deal with Hudon...a fifth round pick in the same draft that Collberg went 32nd overall. The Isles had passed on Hudon for four rounds..obviously they weren't that high on him...not like he tore up up the season after he was drafted.

It's not just similar sized prospects we should look at either....he was passed on the depth chart by not only similar sized prospects in Lehkonen and Andri..but also McCarron, DLR and others. There are 13-14 forward roster spots on the club regardless of size, and Collberg was far enough down the depth chart that he was expendable.

Collberg more of a build than Andrighetto? If he does..it's minuscule. He certainly doesn't play harder or with more strength..in fact it's the opposite.

I think the Isles were VERY high on Collberg. They were sad when Timmins picked him right before them. They settled with Pokka, but it seems Collberg was the one they really wanted.

 

[Grant McCagg]

I had Collberg ranked 11th overall in his draft year..don't know that any one had him ranked higher..but I'm not going to sit back and deny that I had him ranked too highly..I can see it with my own eyes. He lacks the quickness, grit and competitiveness for his size to be a surefire prospect...I truly think he would have had problems cracking the Habs' lineup as he's not a bottom line player, and he's likely not good enough for his size to ever supplant a top-line winger on the Habs.

Yes it's too early to write him off..and I'm not saying he won't succeed with the Isles..but sometimes you have to make early projections, as the Habs did with this trade, and my early read on Collberg is that he would have been a longshot to become a regular on the Habs. Yes that makes my draft ranking of 11th look bad, but you don't get all of them right. I only get to see players like Collberg on video in international competitions, so it's an inexact science to be sure. For me Collberg's style hasn't translated well to the pro game...he's a great junior..but not all great juniors become great pros. I may have put too much emphasis on performance and not enough on projection in Collberg's case as he really did look good at the U-20's as a 17-year-old. Actually he looked good in all international tournament that year.

 

[Scintillating10]

I had Collberg ranked 11th overall in his draft year..don't know that any one had him ranked higher..but I'm not going to sit back and deny that I had him ranked too highly..I can see it with my own eyes. He lacks the quickness, grit and competitiveness for his size to be a surefire prospect...I truly think he would have had problems cracking the Habs' lineup as he's not a bottom line player, and he's likely not good enough for his size to ever supplant a top-line winger on the Habs.

Yes it's too early to write him off..and I'm not saying he won't succeed with the Isles..but sometimes you have to make early projections, as the Habs did with this trade, and my early read on Collberg is that he would have been a longshot to become a regular on the Habs. Yes that makes my draft ranking of 11th look bad, but you don't get all of them right. I only get to see players like Collberg on video in international competitions, so it's an inexact science to be sure. For me Collberg's style hasn't translated well to the pro game...he's a great junior..but not all great juniors become great pros. I may have put too much emphasis on performance and not enough on projection in Collberg's case as he really did look good at the U-20's as a 17-year-old. Actually he looked good in all international tournament that year.

That's why I don't put too much stock in International tournys. I've seen it costs us too many times. From McDonagh's very ordinary U20 to Kostitsyn's earth shattering U18.

 

[DekeLikeYouMeanIt]

Fucale looks better. Still **** support, but he looked better. On another note, Acadie is still crap.

 

[Mathletic]

Acadie is still crap.

As bad as they are, they're still better than last year

Last year they were terrible in a terrible division. This year I find they're kind of decent (stil below average) in a surprising maritimes division so far.

That said, couldn't help but notice that Ryan is the definition of a 20 year old who simply doesn't care anymore. They'd probably be better off without him at this point and cut him lose.

 

[Sam I Am]

I had Collberg ranked 11th overall in his draft year..don't know that any one had him ranked higher..but I'm not going to sit back and deny that I had him ranked too highly..I can see it with my own eyes. He lacks the quickness, grit and competitiveness for his size to be a surefire prospect...I truly think he would have had problems cracking the Habs' lineup as he's not a bottom line player, and he's likely not good enough for his size to ever supplant a top-line winger on the Habs.

Yes it's too early to write him off..and I'm not saying he won't succeed with the Isles..but sometimes you have to make early projections, as the Habs did with this trade, and my early read on Collberg is that he would have been a longshot to become a regular on the Habs. Yes that makes my draft ranking of 11th look bad, but you don't get all of them right. I only get to see players like Collberg on video in international competitions, so it's an inexact science to be sure. For me Collberg's style hasn't translated well to the pro game...he's a great junior..but not all great juniors become great pros. I may have put too much emphasis on performance and not enough on projection in Collberg's case as he really did look good at the U-20's as a 17-year-old. Actually he looked good in all international tournament that year.

It's an inexact science even when you see the player in person.

Collberg has been underwhelming since his draft year. I'd venture to say he has regressed.

What is really telling in my opinion is how Collberg looked at the last WJC. While his stats seem acceptable, to my eye he was no more than the 8th most impressive forward on the Swedish roster. This despite being allmost 20-years-old and playing on a top line.

He had been surpassed by younger, sometimes less heralded prospects. Forsberg, Wenneberg, Wallmark, Burakowsky, Lindholm, Sorenson and DLR come immediately to mind.

I would be surprised if he puts it together in the pros. Trading him was clearly a gamble worth taking.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

It's an inexact science even when you see the player in person.

Collberg has been underwhelming since his draft year. I'd venture to say he has regressed.

What is really telling in my opinion is how Collberg looked at the last WJC. While his stats seem acceptable, to my eye he was no more than the 8th most impressive forward on the Swedish roster. This despite being allmost 20-years-old and playing on a top line.

He had been surpassed by younger, sometimes less heralded prospects. Forsberg, Wenneberg, Wallmark, Burakowsky, Lindholm, Sorenson and DLR come immediately to mind.

I would be surprised if he puts it together in the pros. Trading him was clearly a gamble worth taking.

The thing with Collberg was that he showed no clear progression from 2011-12 (His draft year) to 2013-14. That's the main thing you want to see in a prospect, a sign that he's figuring stuff out, that he's working on his weaknesses. Now there is some argument to be made about his lack of minutes in Frolunda but at the same time you'd think that he would have climbed the ladder a bit in three seasons with the club. At some point a player has to earn it for himself.

All in all we made a hockey trade from a position of strength with an asset we could spare bacause we had similar guys in the system. Even if Collberg makes it I can't blame the organization on this one.

 

[Whitesnake]

It's an inexact science even when you see the player in person.

Collberg has been underwhelming since his draft year. I'd venture to say he has regressed.

What is really telling in my opinion is how Collberg looked at the last WJC. While his stats seem acceptable, to my eye he was no more than the 8th most impressive forward on the Swedish roster. This despite being allmost 20-years-old and playing on a top line.

He had been surpassed by younger, sometimes less heralded prospects. Forsberg, Wenneberg, Wallmark, Burakowsky, Lindholm, Sorenson and DLR come immediately to mind.

I would be surprised if he puts it together in the pros. Trading him was clearly a gamble worth taking.

McDonagh too wasn't showing that much progression and had an average WJC. I mean, we're not talking about a 2010 pick here. Just a 2012 one and out of that draft, obviously outside of Galchenyuk, he still looks like maybe the 2nd best prospect of that draft, maybe behind Hudon who still though comes with some negative baggage, as in his healthy and injury concerns. And frankly, I don't think that people expects Hudon to be a top 6 while there's still some possibilities that Collberg could eventually become one. Still ways to go, I know. Let's hope before already assessing a player's being bust after 2 years of being drafted.

 

[aresknights]

McC close to returning to Knights lineup.
Hopefully tomorrow if all goes well.

 

[Whitesnake]

McC close to returning to Knights lineup.
Hopefully tomorrow if all goes well.

Thanks! Great news! Let's hope he is able to adapt quickly and do well!

 

[GREMLIN]

Thanks! Great news! Let's hope he is able to adapt quickly and do well!

Yeah I really hope he puts up a couple points in the coming weeks, a confidence boost really wouldn't hurt him.

 

[DekeLikeYouMeanIt]

McC close to returning to Knights lineup.
Hopefully tomorrow if all goes well.

That was quick. Hope it's a full rather than hurried recovery.

 

[Monctonscout]

Any news on Gregoire?

 

[Nicko999]

McC close to returning to Knights lineup.
Hopefully tomorrow if all goes well.

Great! Not having a prospect in the OHL sucked. Nice to see him back.
I do expect a lot from him this year. A PPG pace is the minimum.

 

[David Suzuki]

RDS says big mac is playing tonight.

 

[Xss]

Hopefully he is not rushing back and is 100% ready.

 

[Joannie9]

Grégoire out for 6-8 weeks after wrist surgery. Will probably miss WJC ..