2014-2015 Champions Hockey League

[vorky]

Lets compare Turkish Airlines Euroleague and CHL. Quoting from by laws of Euroleague and CHL rules.

ECA will grant up to 24 licences to operate teams in the Euroleague.

CHL grants up to 48 licences

A Licences will have a long-term duration and B and C Licences will have a one-year duration pursuant to the terms and conditions established in these Licensing Rules.

There will not be more than four A+B Licences granted to the clubs from the same country or League under any circumstance.

CHL says hello

A Licence

According to the successive resolutions adopted by the General Assembly since 7 July 2009, ECA will grant up to 14 A Licences to the clubs based on the following criteria:

CHL has 26 A licences.

Use of an arena with a minimum capacity for 10,000 seated spectators

CHL says hello again. To be fair, Europe does not have many 10 000 hockey arenas so 5000 capacity in OK for me. BUT, this rule must be change to 10 000 in future if CHL wants to be sucessfull.

When three or more Clubs from the same country or League have an A Licence, no additional A Licences will be granted to clubs from that country or League.

No comment here.

ECA has the right to cancel A licence, or temporarily suspend it at its own discretion, for one of the following reasons:

If, in the season that has just finished, the Club has ranked
among the clubs placed in the bottom half of the Domestic Championship final standings. For the purposes of this article, if the Domestic Championship has an odd number of teams, the bottom half includes half plus 0.5.

Liberec says hello

ECA has the right to cancel A licence, or temporarily suspend it at its own discretion, for one of the following reasons:

In the case that, during two consecutive seasons, a Club does not manage to average at least 8,000 paid tickets throughout the Euroleague season as established in the Bylaws. For the purposes of this article, it will be taken into account that the sale is effective, full-price, and according to a reasonable pricing policy. It will be evaluated if there is any evidence that the average of paid tickets has increased during this two-season period.

 

[EbencoyE]

The CHL has played 1 season so far.

How many years has the basketball Euroleague been around?

At least, unlike the KHL, the CHL can only get better. Meanwhile, your precious league is losing teams left and right. Not only has KHL conquering Europe become a laughable idea, the very idea of the KHL as an existing league is becoming more and more questionable.

 

[vorky]

B Licence

Each year ECA will grant B Licences to the clubs whose teams have won their Domestic Championship in the previous season according to the place that their country occupies in the Euroleague Country Ranking elaborated by ECA (Appendix I). Additionally, ECA may grant licences to the clubs ranked in the second or third place of their Domestic Championship according to the place that their country occupies in the Euroleague Country Ranking.

The same, no problem here.

ECA will grant a minimum of seven B Licences with the right to have direct access to the competition and one B Licence through Qualifying Rounds, to the clubs that comply with the following criteria:

The B Licences will be allocated to the highest placed clubs in the Euroleague Country Ranking who have not previously been granted an A Licence. (...) A maximum of eight places for the Qualifying Rounds will be allocated following the same Euroleague Country Ranking and criteria, although ECA reserves the right to grant wild cards

Use of an arena with a minimum capacity for 5,000 seated
spectators

C Licence

ECA will grant the Euroleague champion a one-year licence for participating in the Euroleague the following season, provided that the Euroleague champion does not hold an A or B Licence.

ECA will grant the Eurocup champion a one-year licence for
participating in the Euroleague the following season, provided
that the Euroleague champion from the previous season already
holds an A or B Licence.

In both cases, the allocation of the licence will be conditionalupon the fulfilment of all terms and conditions established in these Licensing Rules for the Clubs with B Licences.

 

[Jussi]

The CHL has played 1 season so far.

How many years has the basketball Euroleague been around?

At least, unlike the KHL, the CHL can only get better. Meanwhile, your precious league is losing teams left and right. Not only has KHL conquering Europe become a laughable idea, the very idea of the KHL as an existing league is becoming more and more questionable.

One should also take into account that the sports are slightly at the other end of the spectrum when it comes to popularity in Europe. The Euroleague was preceded by the European Cup which ran for decades so the tv audience and sponsors were basically there already. CHL has had to start almost from scratch (bringing the NT or ET into this argument is basically moving the goal posts). While I agree that there's too much teams, one can see the logic in that when you see British teams having a 500K turnover from their home games and other teams from smaller hockey countries having doing similar. That attention can bring in more sponsors, thus increasing the prize money handed out.

 

[vorky]

The CHL has played 1 season so far.

How many years has the basketball Euroleague been around?

At least, unlike the KHL, the CHL can only get better. Meanwhile, your precious league is losing teams left and right. Not only has KHL conquering Europe become a laughable idea, the very idea of the KHL as an existing league is becoming more and more questionable.

It is not important when the league was established. Important are rules in innaugural season and following seasons. Euroleague 1st season was played in 2000–01. This Euroleague season did not feature all the best European teams, as some of them opted to compete in the FIBA SuproLeague competition instead. That is the same as CHL (no KHL teams).

The inaugural Euroleague season - 24 clubs.
The inaugural CHL season - 44 clubs.

Can you see the different? Basketball is more popular in Europe than hockey. More quality basketball leagues than hockey´s.

Euroleague expanded to 32 in second season. TOP clubs playing FIBA SuproLeague joined. CHL expanded as well, to 48 clubs, but newcomers are not from best euro leagues (see Slovakia, Denmark, France, GB). See the different?

Third Euroleague season - 24 clubs again.
Third CHL season - 49 clubs at least (plus Poland)

As we can see, Euroleague had a reason to expand (because some top teams did not join in 1st season). CHL wanted to expand to have KHL clubs which did not happen. So why to expand if you can not have top KHL clubs?

Licences

The inaugural Euroleague season - 10 A licences for 3 seasons.
The inaugural CHL season - 26 A licences for 3 seasons.

Why so many A licences?

Euroleague “A†Licence minimum criteria:
- Elite Sports Results
- 10,000 Seater Arena etc

Euroleague possible reasons for loss of “A†Licence
- Finishing as the last “A†Licence team over three seasons
- Finishing in the bottom half of the Domestic Championship
- Failing to sell at least 8,000 tickets per Euroleague game (not important for CHL now IMO)

Euroleague had from innaugural season a rule that the club might loss A licence (bottom half of domestic championship).

Euroleague organised qualifying rounds in 2nd season, CHL wont do that.

 

[JJTT]

^ What are you trying to prove here? Everybody knows CHL is a bad format and can't be taken seriously.

When a team like TPS is in this year, it's a joke.

 

[vorky]

^ What are you trying to prove here? Everybody knows CHL is a bad format and can't be taken seriously.

When a team like TPS is in this year, it's a joke.

I want to prove nothing. As you said "Everybody knows CHL is a bad format and can't be taken seriously."

I know that CHL was inspired by baskatball Euroleague. It is mystery for me why CHL did not take other important rules (see my posts above) of Euroleague to hockey.

 

[ForumNamePending]

Things aren't ideal with this tournament but I actually think the tweaking with the format makes this year's format better than last year's as at least it has some symmetry now... A format where 11 groups winners and the 5 best 2nd place teams advance was awkward.

I agree that the thing is bloated and there are some 'A license' teams that, going by on ice results, don't deserve to be there, but if that's your biggest complaint just think of the opening round or two as qualifying rounds... By the time you get to the final 16 all the poor teams will have been bounced and the quality of the teams remaining should be quite high.

Not sure the point of going through the licensing differences between the Basketball's Euroleague and the CHL... Is there some reason why the CHL needs to be identical to another competition?

 

[PuckOut]

The "A-licenses" will be changed after season 3, it's common knowledge. The reasons for the A-licenses are crystal clear, it's the basis that has put the competition into reality and the guarantee it's around for the first 3 seasons.

I don't really understand why some people harp on about it week after week as if they have no clue...

I wish they hadn't changed up the group stage like they did though, 3 team groups are somewhat pointless. But hopefully they'll realise that and sort it out.

 

[vorky]

They (CHL leadership) are interesting people. They come here, negotiate intelligently and at the same time say: Allow CSKA, SKA, Ak Bars to play our league. I ask them: Why? They respond: they will be satisfied to play our league (CHL). Then I ask again, to explain me, how it would be advantageous for us (KHL)? If CHL is able to explain us how the joint cooperation would be advantageous for us, then we are ready to discuss some exibition games but not allowing our elite clubs to join CHL. To be honest, level of CHL clubs is below level of KHL top clubs. What would be a reason to play againt weaker opponents when you (KHL club) can play superior hockey in KHL?

I would recommend CHL clubs to join KHL if the clubs fulfil our regulations. We has already negotiated with european and asian clubs. Foreign clubs will join our family in near future and will increase the level of our league.

Dmitry Chernyshenko, KHL President.

 

[vorky]

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Dmitry Chernyshenko, KHL President.

Where did you get this translation? The original seemed to me a little bit different, but the message is right.

 

[vorky]

Where did you get this translation? The original seemed to me a little bit different, but the message is right.

My translation, not the best but the point is here. There is original for guys who would like to read or translate it.

http://rsport.ru/hockey/20150520/833331313.html

Btw. AP translation of TASS article about expanding to China is a little bit different than TASS english article. So, two people, two different translations.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/khl-looks-expand-china-103811295--nhl.html
http://tass.ru/en/sports/795913

 

[Jussi]

Considering the financial state of the KHL, one would think extra income would be welcome. That's one of the main reasons why European clubs play it. They operate on budgets that requires actual revenue, the KHL model isn't sustainable for European clubs.

 

[vorky]

Would be great if you supported your claims by credible source.

 

[Jussi]

Source??? It's ****ing common sense. When even Jokerit posted 8-10 million euro losses for their first KHL season (some of it covered by Rotenberg), playing in the CHL where no clubs posted losses in it's first season and clubs that advanced longer made profit (British club had a turnover of 500K euros in their home group games), it's a no-brainer.

 

[vorky]

As I said, credible source... I dont believe the fairy tales.

 

[Jussi]

Credible source to what?

 

[vorky]

After Belarus, of course the next thing everybody's going to ask about is Russia. What do you think about that possibility?

I'm positive.I am sure that Russian hockey teams will compete in Europe, just like Russian teams in all other sports compete in various Champions Leagues and European Cups. The competition would be better with Russian teams and at the same time Russian clubs cannot afford to isolate themselves. Isolation always leads to loss in quality.

We’ve met the KHL leadership, we tried to convince them that competing would be good for all. We are not there yet but maybe in a couple of months or years we'll know more. For the growth of club hockey in Europe, it’s important that all the major hockey powers contribute.

Are there any other places in Europe that you think could be part of the CHL?

It's step-by-step, I think. Poland is one that we believe has the potential. There are other teams from other countries that we are monitoring but it's too early to decide.

We went to Krakow for the IIHF Division 1-A Championship and there we met with the Polish Ice Hockey Association and we granted them a conditional Wild-Card for the 2016–17 Champions Hockey League season, and that’s pending visible progress in Polish club hockey. As our tagline says “Where Europe Comes to Play”, so we would really like to be able to invite more teams from different countries.

what about next countries?

http://www.championshockeyleague.ne...t-experience-says-chl-ceo-martin-baumann/996/

 

[Yakushev72]

Source??? It's ****ing common sense. When even Jokerit posted 8-10 million euro losses for their first KHL season (some of it covered by Rotenberg), playing in the CHL where no clubs posted losses in it's first season and clubs that advanced longer made profit (British club had a turnover of 500K euros in their home group games), it's a no-brainer.

The important point is the one made by Chernyshenko: how does it help the KHL by playing in a league that isn't as good as the KHL? On the one hand, you say that the KHL can't survive on scraps from the NHL, then you recommend vastly expanding the amount of scraps needed to feed both the KHL and CHL. You didn't specify the kinds of profits you're talking about, so I don't know what you mean, but my question is: what kind of salaries are CHL teams paying? The KHL is paying salaries that clearly overwhelm those paid by the AHL, by far the 2nd best NA league. How many NHL players are choosing to leave to play on CHL teams?

 

[Jussi]

The important point is the one made by Chernyshenko: how does it help the KHL by playing in a league that isn't as good as the KHL? On the one hand, you say that the KHL can't survive on scraps from the NHL, then you recommend vastly expanding the amount of scraps needed to feed both the KHL and CHL. You didn't specify the kinds of profits you're talking about, so I don't know what you mean, but my question is: what kind of salaries are CHL teams paying? The KHL is paying salaries that clearly overwhelm those paid by the AHL, by far the 2nd best NA league. How many NHL players are choosing to leave to play on CHL teams?

For crying out loud, CHL isn't a league but a competition. Why is it so hard for you to grasp? Specify profits? THose were the exact words from Timo Everi a few months ago in a Finnish sports publication Urheilusanoamt. He said no club that took part in the CHL made a loss and those that made it further, made profit. JYP CEO Kari Tyni on the other hand was said to be very envious of one British club that had a turnover of 500K euro in their homegames which is far from what JYP were getting (even in Liiga).

 

[Yakushev72]

For crying out loud, CHL isn't a league but a competition. Why is it so hard for you to grasp? Specify profits? THose were the exact words from Timo Everi a few months ago in a Finnish sports publication Urheilusanoamt. He said no club that took part in the CHL made a loss and those that made it further, made profit. JYP CEO Kari Tyni on the other hand was said to be very envious of one British club that had a turnover of 500K euro in their homegames which is far from what JYP were getting (even in Liiga).

I'll admit to not having invested much time in studying the CHL, but bottom line, why should the KHL participate in the competition until they are convinced that it is in their interest? Maybe if a Championship series between the CHL winner and the KHL champ could be arranged in a way that would generate very large television money, that would be attractive, but that seems much too far-fetched.

 

[Atas2000]

Considering the financial state of the KHL, one would think extra income would be welcome. That's one of the main reasons why European clubs play it. They operate on budgets that requires actual revenue, the KHL model isn't sustainable for European clubs.

Again, again and again... What financial state of the KHL?

 

[Jussi]

Again, again and again... What financial state of the KHL?

The one where clubs can't make a profit but have to depend on "owner/KHL assistance" to be able to play in the league and where before the season's even begun, you can pretty much predict which clubs won't be able to pay salaries on time.

 

[Jussi]

I'll admit to not having invested much time in studying the CHL, but bottom line, why should the KHL participate in the competition until they are convinced that it is in their interest? Maybe if a Championship series between the CHL winner and the KHL champ could be arranged in a way that would generate very large television money, that would be attractive, but that seems much too far-fetched.

Let me put it this way, if there's a chance that Jokerit might get to play against HIFK, that would mean an automatic sold out arena. It would be beneficial for the clubs. Some times the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many.