2013 New Jersey Devils (Team/Player Discussion)-Offseason FA and trade talk Part XIV

[Emperoreddy]

Lol, I just hope this gets done sooner then later

When you have the time...

 

[Devils Trap]

Roman Jedlicka ‏@jedli 4h
99 percent Jagr is gonna sign with #NJDevils. Good source.

He is a very good source. He did call the Elias re-sign

 

[Bleedred]

Roman Jedlicka ‏@jedli 4h
99 percent Jagr is gonna sign with #NJDevils. Good source.

He is a very good source. He did call the Elias re-sign

I believe him, but there's been so much with Jagr. Last week he was supposed to be going down to our friends in Raleigh!

 

[tycobb]

I'm done on this topic. You keep turning this to a 1v1 thing. Neither player has anything to do with the other and your points are baseless on top of it.

If a team offer sheets Henrique for more than 4 million then Lou could sign Grabo and let Henrique go for a 1st and a 3rd.

But nobody is going to offer sheet Henrique for more than 4 million. He only has 117 NHL games at .57 PTS per game. Henrique will get a deal ~2.5 million over 2 years.

 

[Devils Trap]

Henrique > Grabo. I would rather have Henrique.

 

[AfroThunder396]

No, there really aren't many fallacies there. The Devils traded Jamie Langenbrunner for a 3rd. Marek Zidlicky got a 2nd and a 3rd. Douglas Murrary got two 2nds. You're going to trade Adam Henrique for a 1st and a 3rd?

Dickinson and Cehlarik really is not "cherry picking specific players." If anything, it's the opposite. A mid-level first rounder and a mid-level third rounder. You aren't going to get a team trading a potential top 10 first round pick.

Additionally, Grabovski is 29 years old. Henrique scored the same amount of points as a rookie as Grabovski did at 28 years old. This shouldn't even be an argument. Let's not get into playoff performance. Go ask Leaf fans what happened to Grabovski in May. The common theme would be that he disappeared.

I'm not talking about Grabovski, I'm talking about Henrique.

Henrique right now is a young, defensively responsible 2nd line center. That's it.

Realistically - what do you think a team would offer for Henrique?

Not what your personal asking price would be, not what he's worth to the Devils. But what do you think his price in a vacuum is?

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

http://hockeyanalysis.com/2012/10/30/identifying-the-top-defensive-centers-in-the-nhl/

Henrique didn't meet the criteria to be included when that article was written.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...1500&teamid=0&type=goals&sort=A20&sortdir=ASC

Since 2011, Henrique's allowed less goals per every 20 minutes of 5v5 ice time than Plekanec, Nielsen, Stastny, and Parise. 56th overall in the league for anyone with over 1500 minutes. Grabovski is 115th.

Going by fenwick or corsi looks pretty impressive too, but there's a whole lot of Devils up in the top of that list.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Context. He had a 50 point rookie season and was a Calder finalist. He received Selke votes this year. He has a history of scoring clutch goals going back to junior. There is no way on earth that 33 year old Michael Ryder or Ryane Clowe command more than Henrique. Clowe and Ryder are likely past their prime. Henrique is 23 years old. Pointing to stats is useless in this situation. That's like saying a team would give J.M. Liles more money than Adam Larsson because he's scored more points and is more proven.

I think it's a good idea to put a poll up and ask who has more value: Henrique, Ryder, or Clowe. It isn't even close. The idea of Ryder or Clowe having more value than Henrique is ludicrous.

This reminds me of a Bill Burr segment on the ridiculous ways people use stats. "But 99% of shark attacks happen in shallow water!! Well yeah, that's where all the people are..." Saying that Henrique only scored 50 points one time and Ryder is an "established 30 goal scorer" is a poor use of stats. No **** Henrique only scored 50 points once, he's only played one full season. That doesn't mean that Ryder has more value.

Tyler Seguin has never scored 30 goals in a season. Logically, nobody would give him more than Michael Ryder.

Potential value =/= earning a contract. If you think one season of 50 points warrants 5 million a year I don't know what to say. Why did couturier only get 1.75? His value is sure higher than Ryder right? Maybe it's bc he's played only a season and a half? If Henrique gets more than 3.5 ill eat my words but I thinks there's a 0 percent chance of that happening.

 

[Vilgraining]

Potential value =/= earning a contract. If you think one season of 50 points warrants 5 million a year I don't know what to say. Why did couturier only get 1.75? His value is sure higher than Ryder right? Maybe it's bc he's played only a season and a half? If Henrique gets more than 3.5 ill eat my words but I thinks there's a 0 percent chance of that happening.

Why would Henrique get more than 3.5?

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Why would Henrique get more than 3.5?

He won't. That's my point.

 

[tycobb]

Henrique didn't meet the criteria to be included when that article was written.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...1500&teamid=0&type=goals&sort=A20&sortdir=ASC

Since 2011, Henrique's allowed less goals per every 20 minutes of 5v5 ice time than Plekanec, Nielsen, Stastny, and Parise. 56th overall in the league for anyone with over 1500 minutes. Grabovski is 115th.

Going by fenwick or corsi looks pretty impressive too, but there's a whole lot of Devils up in the top of that list.

In 2011 the Maple leafs gave up 264 goals and the Devils gave up 209. If they were to switch teams nobody on this board would think Henrique is better than Grabovski. Grabovski is a high quality 2nd line C with great defensive abilities.

I would much rather sign Grabo than Brunner for what I think they will get for contract wise.

Elias - Zajac - Ryder
Clowe - Grabo - Jagr
Zubrus - Henrique - Bernier
Carter - Yayo - Olesz

Would be one of the deepest forwards groups in a long long time.

 

[apice3*]

"Henrique only has 117 games played. He's not getting more than 2.5 million."

"We should sign Brunner for 3 million."

 

[tycobb]

"Henrique only has 117 games played. He's not getting more than 2.5 million."

"We should sign Brunner for 3 million."

Henrique = RFA
Brunner = UFA

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

"Henrique only has 117 games played. He's not getting more than 2.5 million."

"We should sign Brunner for 3 million."

Crazy, huh? (Considering some were calling for even $3.5M for Brunner...)

 

[B A T M A N]

Less pointless arguing, more fapping.

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

This is like an episode of First Take.

 

[Vilgraining]

The only way Henrique gets 3.5 if he signs for like 5 years or more. One good year, one struggling year, a third round pick, and has no leverage outside of an offer sheet.

 

[Vilgraining]

"Henrique only has 117 games played. He's not getting more than 2.5 million."

"We should sign Brunner for 3 million."

That's like saying Clarkson and Taveres get roughly the same money. We all know there is a difference between UFA's and RFA's. Just like we know there is a difference between your contract coming of the ELC and the next one, right before you are going to be a UFA.

 

[apice3*]

RFAs will get RFA prices from their own teams. There's less of a threat to leave.

RFAs will get UFA money from other teams.

 

[Ripshot 43]

This is like an episode of First Take.

Pointless argueing? Or is there a rapper co hosting that I haven't seen yet?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

That's ludicrous. You're telling me someone would give Henrique more than Ryder(an established 30 goal scorer) and the same as clowe. You're nuts. He had one 50 point season playing with elite players. Gms wouldn't risk that. And if a GM is dumb enough to there's a good chance they're a lottery team if they make idiotic moves like that.

youre not serious with this post, are you?

Clowe and Ryder are 30 and 33. Henrique is 23 and has a TON of potential. you can't honestly say that with a straight face.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

youre not serious with this post, are you?

Clowe and Ryder are 30 and 33. Henrique is 23 and has a TON of potential. you can't honestly say that with a straight face.

dead serious. if you think henrique gets as much as clowe as a rfa with 1 and a half seasons under his belt you are insane. im not arguing they have more value, clearly henrique has waaaayyy more value, but you dont get money based on what you may be one day. he hasn't earned a deal worth more than 3.5 mil. i want an apology if he gets less than 3.5.

 

[HenriquesJawLine]

Do people not think Henrique will continue to improve? He's going to be really good. And dat jawline is chiseled

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I think if Henrique signs a longer term deal (4-5 years) people are going to be surprised at the cap hit. he is definitely getting over $3 and probably over $4 even

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

dead serious. if you think henrique gets as much as clowe as a rfa with 1 and a half seasons under his belt you are insane. im not arguing they have more value, clearly henrique has waaaayyy more value, but you dont get money based on what you may be one day. he hasn't earned a deal worth more than 3.5 mil. i want an apology if he gets less than 3.5.

you really must not understand the whole signing RFAs early thing, do you? this happens ALL the time. go look at what Roman Josi just got...you think he is worth that contract right now? no. but in a few years, he probably will be.

I also never said he would get over $3.5 definitively. so do not put words in my mouth.