Post-Game Talk: 2003 Wild 3, Canucks 2 (Letowski, Naslund)

[vadim sharifijanov]

Never thought I'd say this but I hope Oilers get them in the 1st round and McDavid eats them alive.

or vice versa, irdgaf which one eats which alive as long as one of them is dead

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Demko is bad against those types of goals as well. Always loses his stick when there's a crease scramble, and goes frantic.

 

[Bleach Clean]

LA literally didn't have any of those scramble-type chances until they scored (or after their two goals), and the first one was basically a PP with a delayed penalty where we scored an own goal.

Some games both teams can put through 10 screened shots from the point and one team has 3 of them find a way in and the other doesn't get any.

In a vacuum, yes, that's correct. Specifically, LA's style is to create those shot scrambles and VAN's style is the point shot deflection. It's about what LA does when they threaten. Even if the Canucks had won, the same tendency for each team would persist.

Did you hear Tocchet's comment after the game?

 

[MS]

In a vacuum, yes, that's correct. Specifically, LA's style is to create those shot scrambles and VAN's style is the point shot deflection. It's about what LA does when they threaten. Even if the Canucks had won, the same tendency for each team would persist.

Did you hear Tocchet's comment after the game?

I heard Tocchet's comments and I didn't read them the same way you did.

The bottom line is that LA had very few of this sort of chance tonight and two of them rather flukily went in. If they were getting all kinds of goalmouth scrambles and scored because of volume of chances ... sure. I'd agree. But that's not what happened. They generated hardly anything all night and got some bounces.

Like someone above said, if you simulate this game seven times, the Canucks win that playoff series.

 

[God]

In a vacuum, yes, that's correct. Specifically, LA's style is to create those shot scrambles and VAN's style is the point shot deflection. It's about what LA does when they threaten. Even if the Canucks had won, the same tendency for each team would persist.

Did you hear Tocchet's comment after the game?

Just looking at the heatmap here, it looks like we're significantly outchancing them in the paint.

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/game.php?season=20232024&game=21135

I didn't hear his comments but if he said we were even with LA, he's wrong.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I heard Tocchet's comments and I didn't read them the same way you did.

The bottom line is that LA had very few of this sort of chance tonight and two of them rather flukily went in. If they were getting all kinds of goalmouth scrambles and scored because of volume of chances ... sure. I'd agree. But that's not what happened. They generated hardly anything all night and got some bounces.

Like someone above said, if you simulate this game seven times, the Canucks win that playoff series.

What did you read into his comments? To paraphrase 'play in the paint being the difference'.

I don't think LA is focused on volume. They're opportunists. When they get inside the defensive box, they're better at keeping the confusion going rather than being one and done. By contrast, the Canucks are usually one and done.

Just looking at the heatmap here, it looks like we're significantly outchancing them in the paint.

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/game.php?season=20232024&game=21135

I didn't hear his comments but if he said we were even with LA, he's wrong.

He's wrong about the chances, but I'm referring to the scrambles in the paint being the difference comment. (I've seen the heat map)

 

[God]

What did you read into his comments? To paraphrase 'scrambles in the paint being the difference'.

I don't think LA is focused on volume. They're opportunists. When they get inside the defensive box, they're better at keeping the confusion going rather than being one and done. By contrast, the Canucks are usually one and done.





He's wrong about the chances, but I'm referring to the scrambles in the paint being the difference comment. (I've seen the heat map)

Without seeing any empirical evidence, I don't really buy it. They seem to just play the same as any other team that tells their players to get traffic in front of shots, and in no way were the goals tonight based off of sustained "confusion" like you're claiming.

 

[B-rock]

DeSmith hit the wall tonight. He fumbled the catch on the 2nd goal which led to the scramble and into the net. Was sliding out of position quite a lot, getting turned completely around in his crease. He's held the fort well though to this point.

Soucy isn't steady enough right now. Puts himself out of position too often. Hopefully he's still rounding into form after being injured for such a long time.
Liked the Hronek Zadorov pairing, but agree with other poster that Myers shouldn't be with Hughes. I prefer Juulsen. Myers is always an adventure.

Aman is big, fast but needs Pods to teach him how to use his weight effectively. His hits do nothing.

Pettersson is still not doing it for me. Mistiming his stick handling and passes way too much. Strange to see him this off but still put up close to 100 points.

I agree with orca on Boeser, he looked slow out of the gate and just doesn't make a lot happen. I really don't know how he got the rep of a good board player. He just doesn't come out of many battles with the puck. Got the goal, but was pretty fluky - missed the net twice in the sequence leading up to it.

Hate the trap, but it is a legal strategy. Up to the opposing team to figure out how to beat it.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Without seeing any empirical evidence, I don't really buy it. They seem to just play the same as any other team that tells their players to get traffic in front of shots, and in no way were the goals tonight based off of sustained "confusion" like you're claiming.

I don't think I said 'sustained' (again, not volume), but definitely scramble plays. Here's the interview:




40 sec mark: "couple of goals around the paint".

128 sec mark: "blue paint stuff, you gotta really own the blue paint".

This is more my read on it, rather than it being backed by statistics. Normally, in a large enough sample, shot differential should win out. In the playoffs where the variance is high in short samples, who knows? Just my read on it. We saw this game differently, and I could be wrong (just like the coach, I guess).

until late in the 2nd when two scrambly goals go in and then it’s basically playing the Lemaire Devils past that point.

Scrambly, yes.

 

[David71]

that was very very jaques lamaire type hockey boring as f***. tuned into wwe instead lots of excitment heading to wm40. i wouldnt want to watch the kings as the first round opponent for vancouver at all. just no room to create anything. play chip in hockey and pray to god u get possession back

 

[orcatown]

Well that sucked.

Good:
Naslund - Guy is on fire right now and amongst the best wingers in the league.

Salo - Just a rock defensively. Makes you wish he could hit the net more with his powerful shots.

Bad:
Bertuzzi - Mucking around out there trying to do much all game capped off by a stupid penalty late in the game which killed our chances of a comeback. Such a good power forward but a real hot head.

Sedins - Meh, these two are soft as brie cheese. Not really sure if they will ever develop into legit top 6 players.

Ugly:
Jovo - Overrated shit.

Dan Cloutier - Looked like it was going well until the back to back softies. The Park goal was bad but the soft wrister by Walz should never get past him.

Next game is against the Atlanta Thrashers. They better at least win that.

Pretty much agree up and down the line. Yah concur Clouts was a little weak on the one from the blue line.

Not seeing much out of Burrows - can't see where he fits in.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Podz what a shift on the Laff goal. That’s exactly what I mean when I say he’s a coaches wet dream because he didn’t get the goal, but he keeps possession alive continually using his strength and determination. That was a playoff shift.

For all the despair, I feel like while LA isn’t an ideal matchup I’m reasonably comfortable we can take ‘em. Not to discredit Casey but Demmer I think would have gotten one of the 2nd and 3rd goals. Pretty much a toss up but the Canucks may be playing their best shutdown hockey of the year the past 4-5 games.

 

[VanJack]

Can't win 'em all....Edmonton outshot and out-chanced the Sens 45-15 and dominated possession on Sunday, but still came out on the short end. Sometimes it just isn't your night.

Quinn Hughes skating miles again. Glad he got at least a point on the Boeser goal. He could single-handedly be the difference in any series against a team like the Kings. He just owned the offensive zone...it's just too bad he can't seem to find a way to get his shot through the maze of bodies in front.

 

[kanucks25]

Only caught the 2nd but seems like Canucks played hard and relatively well overall but just couldn't get inside enough and the few times that LA did, they made it count.

5-on-5 chance generation (or at least goal generation) is looking quite tough, and it probably isn't going to get better in the playoffs.

Best case scenario is probably the Joshua - Blueger - Garland line reigniting their magic (as they give a ton of "bang for your buck" when it comes to depth player contribution) and Lindholm finding a home in the top-6 as a sort of Suter+.

 

[kanucks25]

Also there seemed to be some confusion in the GDT regarding the 1st goal against:

Myers made the pass up/across ice to Boeser and then went for a change. Hughes came on for Myers but for some reason went back to the bench instead of getting into the play. Not sure if he thought he was the 6th guy but I'm not sure why that'd be the case.

However regarding Boeser on that play, I will just quote myself from the Buffalo PGT lol:

Yes, his skating is definitely a problem when it comes to his ability to be a high-end defensive player, but a lot of time it has a lot more to do with effort and/or awareness than speed.

You'll often see him gliding back in the neutral zone, and then an opposing skater passes him, and then he realizes he better catch up but he can't can't skate fast enough to do so. Some players simply have the defensive awareness and IQ to skate around naturally yet always be in the right spot. Others, like Boeser, ought to realize they need to bust their ass to get into a "failsafe" position on the ice so they can't get beat, because if they do get beat, it's too late.

 

[geebster]

I haven't gotten so bored watching a game..really ever. I legitimately just went to bed instead of watching the third and it was an early game.

Also after praising him the game before for forechecking hard etc... Boeser returned to his complete lack of compete without the puck that he's been famous for during his career when he isn't scoring. We are lucky in that we have a team where effort isn't a problem. Petey might be off but he tries. Myers is bad because he tries in stupid ways. But Boeser is the exception and it actively pisses me off to see him point at guys to tell them to take assignments while he's floating in the middle covering no one.

Another note...goddamn do the Kings run a lot of interference. Like I don't even know how they don't get called over and over. I pulled up the rulebook to make sure I wasn't the crazy one and yeah....LAs entire system in the neutral zone is against the rules.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Think this is one that I'll just delete from the PVR.

Definitely need to lock in first place for the division and let Edmonton deal with the boring snore fest. That, or watch the Kings' 1-3-1 get utterly ripped apart by the Oilers offense. Win/Win either way.

 

[ScottishCanuck]

I genuinely hate watching us against the Kings. I don’t think we match up well against them at all and I’d sooner play Vegas, as difficult as that would also be.

 

[SopelFanThe3rd]

I was at the final reg season game of 2002/2003 where the Canucks blew it all and got shut out by Jamie Storr and Naslund embarrassingly got on the mic saying they choked. Then I was at game 1 where they got stomped by the Blues 6-0. I did get to go to Game 7 which was amazing but man that team was pathetic in a lot of ways. The choke job in round 2 as well. Ugh.

 

[tantalum]

Canucks had a 70% share of scoring chances and high danger changes (all situations). They generated 28 scoring chances (well scoring chance "points" given the way they are calculated). This isn't a game to be concerned about.

 

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

This game ended with my biggest NHL pet peeve. A penalty with under 2 minutes left where it didn't actually get fully served. Why is Doughty only in the box for 20 seconds? But if the game was tied he would have to stay in there for at least 1:40 of overtime. There should be running time added to the period until the full 2 minutes are killed off or goal is scored.

 

[I am toxic]

Kings the Crash Landing on You

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I genuinely hate watching us against the Kings. I don’t think we match up well against them at all and I’d sooner play Vegas, as difficult as that would also be.

We dont match up well against the Kings..I'm sure they would be happy to play against us in the playoffs..Having said that, teams adjust in a playoff series, and the Canucks aren't a one dimensional team like the Kings.

I hope that the Kings draw the Oilers in the first round..The Oilers have had their number for a few years now.

 

[MS]

What did you read into his comments? To paraphrase 'play in the paint being the difference'.

I don't think LA is focused on volume. They're opportunists. When they get inside the defensive box, they're better at keeping the confusion going rather than being one and done. By contrast, the Canucks are usually one and done.





He's wrong about the chances, but I'm referring to the scrambles in the paint being the difference comment. (I've seen the heat map)

I took his comment more as 'they got some bounces around the net and took their chances and we didn't.'

And again, LA didn't somehow generate a whole bunch of scrambles or chances around the net. There were hardly any plays like that during the game and in most games when you generated as little as LA did last night you're finishing with 0-2 goals.

The first two goals were both very strange situations and essentially PP goals for LA. First one we only had 4 players on the ice and 1 D and predictably had a major breakdown, second goal was an extended 6-on-5 where we eventually booted the puck into our own net.

In terms of 5-on-5 play that was a 1-1 game where we had a substantial shot/chance advantage.

 

[ProviesGhost]

DeSmith seems to swing too hard side to side, he can be way out of position. Shame to lose to a team like that.