GDT: #20 – Sabres at Stars – Sat Nov 21, 8:00PM ET – MSG-B, Bell TV

[Zip15]

This thread makes me want to kick small animals.

A referendum on everything- draft picks, coach, and GM - because we got whipped on the road by a team that's 17-4? Mmmmkay. Have a good Saturday night, everyone.

 

[Sabre Dance]

When are some of you going to grasp those things go hand in hand.

One example of many ---> Matt Moulson should be on a line getting heavy O-zone starts and not getting much, if any, defensive responsibility. Bylsma uses ROR as his primary defensive center and Girgs as the secondary option. Moulson has played on the wing with one of those two since Game 5 of the season. This is stupid on two fronts 1) Moulson does little to help his center with their defensive responsibilities 2) Since he's not a great possession player, his center has to carry that load as well. So basically ROR and Girgs have had to drag Mouslon around while they handle things defensively and try and create offense. Now if another strong possession or defensive player was on the line it wouldn't be too bad. But there isn't since Gionta has been with Moulson for some time now.

Basically Bylsma's usage of Moulson is not remotely one that sets him up to succeed. Pus it makes his center's job tougher since he's been defensive lines for some time now.

Who would be your wings with ROR and Girgs at center?

Im guessing Moulson - Eichel - Ennis is a line, getting mostly O zone starts.

 

[joshjull]

Dude.

You quoted me.

I JUST SAID THAT IT'S A COMBINATION. Ya know...going hand in hand?

No you said it as if they were separate things .... dude.

As in both player usage has been bad and players have played poorly. I'm telling you the players are struggling BECAUSE of player usage. You weren't saying that. Its telling you said nothing about my example.

 

[Montag DP]

You do understand that player usage influences player performance. If you think that many players are playing poorly. It just might be a problem bigger than them as individuals.

It's both, and I said as much.

 

[Zman5778]

I'm telling you the players are struggling BECAUSE of player usage.

And you can tell me your opinion all you want and I won't share it.

It's a combo platter -- DB isn't using the players well......AND the players are struggling.

That's my opinion.

 

[Punished ROR]

Basically Bylsma's usage of Moulson is not remotely one that sets him up to succeed. Plus it makes his center's job tougher since he's been on the primary and secondary defensive lines for some time now.

+1 for everything you said on Moulson's usage. And having Gionta on the other wing is a double-whammy of suck. Gio's first few strides are decent, but then he hits a wall and falls off; Moulson has no speed. Neither can win a foot race nor a board battle. Both tend to either be lagging behind a play or just misread it and not be in position receive a pass. Etc., etc., etc.

Why put your best possession player and playmaker between two black holes? If the idea is to motivate the young guys to step their game up and steal the spot away, well, it doesn't seem to be working ...

 

[joshjull]

This thread makes me want to kick small animals.

A referendum on everything- draft picks, coach, and GM - because we got whipped on the road by a team that's 17-4? Mmmmkay. Have a good Saturday night, everyone.

Please.

There is some ridiculous over the top stuff about draft picks. But some of us have had legit issues with Bylsma's player usage for some time. But as I expected there has been little to no hockey counterpoint to that. Just silly comments like its November, its a development year, the Stars are good. I guess we were supposed to lose. Why did we even play the game?

 

[Moskau]

And you can tell me your opinion all you want and I won't share it.

It's a combo platter -- DB isn't using the players well......AND the players are struggling.

That's my opinion.

And JJ is saying it's hard to fault a guy like Matt Moulson for struggling when he has been on the line used as a defensive shut down line against the top players in the league all season. If it wasn't facing Tampa Bay's line 4 times playing with Girgensons and Gionta in a shut down role it was then getting swapped over to RoR's line and playing the exact same role against Dallas x2 and St. Louis.

Moulson should be far away from that line. Hell at this point I would stick Foligno and Des back on RoR's line and allow Moulson to be further down the lineup facing much more favorable match ups.

 

[Zman5778]

And JJ is saying it's hard to fault a guy like Matt Moulson for struggling when he has been on the line used as a defensive shut down line against the top players in the league all season.

I don't disagree.

But, a fresh early-game on-form Moulson doesn't miss that first chance. Or his second.

There's plenty of room for both things to be true at once. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

 

[EichHart]

The leagues best team at home and well rested...Yeah I kind of expected a game like this.

 

[haseoke39]

Wow guess I'm glad I skipped this one. Get a good night's rest and feel better, everybody!

 

[Montag DP]

Ennis not playing so terribly would make it a lot easier to have a decent top line. He was the guy we all expected to be the top line RW, but he can hardly do anything right this year. I do echo the sentiment that Reinhart should be there for an extended look instead of Gionta.

 

[TalkingProuder]

Moulson and Gionta need to be used correctly. Asking them to perform in the situations they are put in is crap. Bylsma needs to stop the nonsense.

Kane-ROR-Reinhart
Moulson-Eichel-Girgensons

Then whatever

 

[Moskau]

I don't disagree.

But, a fresh early-game on-form Moulson doesn't miss that first chance. Or his second.

There's plenty of room for both things to be true at once. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

Sure but he and most of the players on the team haven't really been put in positions to feel good about themselves. There is no opportunity to gain confidence with the way the team is being deployed right now.

We are approaching historically low 5 on 5 scoring once again. This team is not that bad offensively. You can see it when they are on the PP that there is some skill here. We should not be this bad 5 on 5.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Sure but he and most of the players on the team haven't really been put in positions to feel good about themselves. There is no opportunity to gain confidence with the way the team is being deployed right now.

We are approaching historically low 5 on 5 scoring once again. This team is not that bad offensively. You can see it when they are on the PP that there is some skill here. We should not be this bad 5 on 5.

But they get scoring chances, so the usage argument doesnt make sense.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Moulson and Gionta need to be used correctly. Asking them to perform in the situations they are put in is crap. Bylsma needs to stop the nonsense.

Kane-ROR-Reinhart
Moulson-Eichel-Girgensons

Then whatever

Still not a goal scorer among them. Moulson at 32 is looking finished.

The problem is obvious. Sabres fans think Kane is a 1st line wing.

 

[ZZamboni]

And you can tell me your opinion all you want and I won't share it.

It's a combo platter -- DB isn't using the players well......AND the players are struggling.

That's my opinion.

Mine as well. But JJ knows better. We are dummies yo.

 

[Zman5778]

But they get scoring chances, so the usage argument doesnt make sense.

There's certainly some validity to the usage argument. They're not going to have confidence. They're going to be more tired at the end of games and shifts.

But Moulson and Gio, in particular, being so severely snakebitten at ES through the first 20 games isn't purely due to usage.

Those two, in particular, are not playing well. Some of it is due to overuse and improper use. Some of it is due to just not playing well in general.


Maybe advanced stats won't agree with my statement here -- but it doesn't seem like Moulson is playing particularly poorly defensively by his standards (ie, he's not good defensively, but I don't think he's playing worse than his "normal"). And I'm sure some of his lack of production is due to an increase in tough minutes. But I don't think it's wrong usage period, end of story. I think there's more to ie (like just having a slow start).

 

[Chad Thundercock]

I'm done with Gionta.

He needs to be 4th line/healthy scratch/trade fodder at this point.

 

[joshjull]

Mine as well. But JJ knows better. We are dummies yo.

Another insightful hockey argument.

 

[TossinSauce]

Not a great one though it is the last of this nasty stretch. Frustrated by Gionta, Eichel, and Ennis. At least we're not Colorado or Anaheim right now.

 

[joshjull]

There's certainly some validity to the usage argument. They're not going to have confidence. They're going to be more tired at the end of games and shifts.

But Moulson and Gio, in particular, being so severely snakebitten at ES through the first 20 games isn't purely due to usage.

Those two, in particular, are not playing well. Some of it is due to overuse and improper use. Some of it is due to just not playing well in general.


Maybe advanced stats won't agree with my statement here -- but it doesn't seem like Moulson is playing particularly poorly defensively by his standards (ie, he's not good defensively, but I don't think he's playing worse than his "normal"). And I'm sure some of his lack of production is due to an increase in tough minutes. But I don't think it's wrong usage period, end of story. I think there's more to ie (like just having a slow start).

Thank you for fleshing out your stance a bit more. But in no way should Moulson AND Gionta be on a #1 line thats being used as the primary defensive line. One of them might be ok, depending on the other player. But neither of them is a good possession player, never has been. You're basically asking ROR to carry them at both ends of the ice. He's be able to for the most part but we can do much better with our top line and the way its used.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Thank you for fleshing out your stance a bit more. But in no way should Moulson AND Gionta be on a #1 line being used as the primary defensive line. One of them might be ok, depending on the other player. But neither of them is a good possession player, never has been. You're basically asking ROR to carry them at both ends of the ice. He's be able to for the most part but we can do much better with our top line and the way its used.

I dont think anyone drew up Moulson - ROR - Gionta as a line. But its hard making lines right now. I doubt we ever see it again./

 

[joshjull]

I dont think anyone drew up Moulson - ROR - Gionta as a line. But its hard making lines right now. I doubt we ever see it again./

Huh?

Dan Bylsma did and they've been together for several games.

 

[OkimLom]

Err...being dynamic is a good quality to have in any player.

And so is being a poised quiet player that makes the right play more often than not.