GDT: #20 – Sabres at Stars – Sat Nov 21, 8:00PM ET – MSG-B, Bell TV

[couture23]

Reinhart is still way too soft. He gets rubbed out along the boards too often, too easily.

He's still a personal favourite of mine from his time in junior, but I would be lying if I said I wasn't underwhelmed so far from a 2nd overall pick.

He's 20.

And if he was ever a personal favourite of yours from his time in junior, you would have realized he will never be a dominant, eye-opening player. He plays a very simple game and that's what you want from a 20 year old. He never tries to do to much and he is extremely poised far beyond his years.

He will never dangle through two guys to score a highlight reel goal so I don't know what you're expecting. His possession stats have been great, he has incredible chemistry with ROR even though Bylsma won't try that again. He has taken ONE PENALTY all year because he is generally in the perfect position every shift.

I don't have a single complaint about Sam so far.

 

[Montag DP]

Larsson, Moulson, Ennis have been straight garbage.

Kane and Gionta have been bad.

Girgensons has been under preforming.

Reinhart and Eichel have been nothing more than solid.

ROR has been great.

This is the problem.

Exactly. We can harp on Bylsma's player usage all day, and I'm not saying it's been great, but it's not the main reason we're losing games. It's because half of our forwards are playing like garbage, and most of the others haven't been good either.

 

[Bearbait]

How can so many players be stuck in scoring slumps all at one time? Who gets the blame for that?

 

[joshjull]

Really hate a lot of these knee jerk reactions because of a loss to the best team in the league - in November of the first year of our revamp.

Knee jerk reactions?

There is a segment of fans on this board that simply do not understand players usage or player roles and how it impacts player performance. Its not simply about line combos.

We do not use our players in the best way possible. Or to put it another way, they're not put into the best position to succeed.

This idea that its "just November" and that is some how a defensive of overplaying Gionta or putting him with Mouslon on a defensive line is beyond daft. Thats just one example

 

[couture23]

How can so many players be stuck in scoring slumps all at one time? Who gets the blame for that?

This is what happens when a young, inexperienced team plays St. Louis and Dallas four times in a week.

 

[Zman5778]

How can so many players be stuck in scoring slumps all at one time? Who gets the blame for that?

The individual players?

Hey, it happens. Especially with a young team that has played together for all of 20 games.

If people around here weren't expecting there to be growing pains this season every so often.....I really don't know what to say. There will be more.

 

[stokes84]

Reinhart is still way too soft. He gets rubbed out along the boards too often, too easily.

He's still a personal favourite of mine from his time in junior, but I would be lying if I said I wasn't underwhelmed so far from a 2nd overall pick.

Refreshing honesty. Reinhart has been OK, but his skating and board play still leaves a lot to be desired. And when he is being outplayed by numerous forwards from the same draft, it's a worthy conversation whether people want to hear it or not. In a redraft, right now he'd probably be the 4th, maybe fifth forward taken. Draisaitl, Bennett, Larkin, and possibly Ehlers. Murray was hired specifically to get that draft right.

 

[ZZamboni]

Omg, dare I suggest .....

Could it possibly be a combo of coaching AND some players underachieving? Or do we live in a world where it must be one or the other?

 

[Moskau]

Reinhart is still way too soft. He gets rubbed out along the boards too often, too easily.

He's still a personal favourite of mine from his time in junior, but I would be lying if I said I wasn't underwhelmed so far from a 2nd overall pick.

Sorry I just don't see it. If Reinhart is soft and loses so many battles then what does that make Eichel? Reinhart keeps the cycle alive more times in one game than Eichel has all season. Granted that's like saying 2 > 1 but everyone's ability around here to key in on things that aren't a problem with Reinhart and then turn a blind eye to Eichel's problems is simply astonishing. They're both rookies and yet Reinhart is getting the scrutiny of a veteran.

 

[Slangston]

How long before we start seeing posts suggesting we missed out on...

McDavid and settling for Eichel...

Babcock and settling for Byslma...

Draisaitl by drafting Reinhart...

Wait, we're already seeing them?

It was a bad performance, yes, but we have to keep our heads level here.

 

[TalkingProuder]

Refreshing honesty. Reinhart has been OK, but his skating and board play still leaves a lot to be desired. And when he is being outplayed by numerous forwards from the same draft, it's a worthy conversation whether people want to hear it or not. In a redraft, right now he'd probably be the 4th, maybe fifth forward taken. Draisaitl, Bennett, and possibly Ehlers. Murray was hired specifically to get that draft right.

If you just looks at points scored then sure. I saw Reinhart save a goal in the first few minutes of the game. But that won't "count" on the HF stat watcher boards.

 

[joshjull]

Exactly. We can harp on Bylsma's player usage all day, and I'm not saying it's been great, but it's not the main reason we're losing games. It's because half of our forwards are playing like garbage, and most of the others haven't been good either.

You do understand that player usage influences player performance. If you think that many players are playing poorly. It just might be a problem bigger than them as individuals.

 

[Zman5778]

Its not simply about line combos.

We do not use our players in the best way possible. Or to put it another way, they're not put into the best position to succeed.

This idea that its "just November" and that is some how a defensive of overplaying Gionta or putting him with Mouslon on a defensive line is beyond daft. Thats just one example

But our struggles aren't just related to player usage.

It's player usage combined with players just not playing well.

The TWO forwards that are playing well (ROR, Reinhart).....it appears as if Bylsma is trying to use them to spur other players' games. If Bylsma is still trying to fit Gionta and Moulson with ROR in February.....and Gio and MM are still underwhelming, then I'm really worried.

But right now, I'm not.

 

[Snippit]

He's 20.

And if he was ever a personal favourite of yours from his time in junior, you would have realized he will never be a dominant, eye-opening player. He plays a very simple game and that's what you want from a 20 year old. He never tries to do to much and he is extremely poised far beyond his years.

He will never dangle through two guys to score a highlight reel goal so I don't know what you're expecting. His possession stats have been great, he has incredible chemistry with ROR even though Bylsma won't try that again. He has taken ONE PENALTY all year because he is generally in the perfect position every shift.

I don't have a single complaint about Sam so far.

I hope you're right, and I do know his game well. The problem is it's just hard to be an elite player in the league without dynamic skating/high-end skill OR very much physical strength.

I know it seems like I'm bashing on Reinhart but I'm not. Just making observations based on what I've seen from his game thus far.

Eichel gets his share of criticism but Sam is seemingly immune to it.

 

[couture23]

I hope you're right, and I do know his game well. The problem is it's just hard to be an elite player in the league without dynamic skating/high-end skill OR very much physical strength.

I know it seems like I'm bashing on Reinhart but I'm not. Just making observations based on what I've seen from his game thus far.

Eichel gets his share of criticism but Sam is seemingly immune to it.

Largely because the expectations for the two are in different universes.

I do agree with you that his board play is pretty weak so far, but I would give his game a solid B+ so far this year.

 

[Zman5778]

Could it possibly be a combo of coaching AND some players underachieving?

I think you might have missed the most obvious thing:

San Jose. Dallas. St. Louis. Dallas.

Going on a 4 game losing streak and not looking stellar shouldn't exactly be a surprise.

 

[Zman5778]

I do agree with you that his board play is pretty weak so far

And even still, it's miles better than last year. And improving.

 

[Snippit]

Sorry I just don't see it. If Reinhart is soft and loses so many battles then what does that make Eichel? Reinhart keeps the cycle alive more times in one game than Eichel has all season. Granted that's like saying 2 > 1 but everyone's ability around here to key in on things that aren't a problem with Reinhart and then turn a blind eye to Eichel's problems is simply astonishing. They're both rookies and yet Reinhart is getting the scrutiny of a veteran.

I guess I have been reading the wrong forum, because I barely see Reinhart getting criticism on the Sabres board. Eichel can lack intensity in his own end but he has at least shown dynamic offensive ability. For example, virtually all of his goals were his own creation. Eichel has definitely been on a tier above Sam.

 

[Sabre Dance]

You do understand that player usage influences player performance. If you think that many players are playing poorly. It just might be a problem bigger than them as individuals.

Is there something more specific then that? What about player usage is hurting which players?

 

[schpaff]

Refreshing honesty. Reinhart has been OK, but his skating and board play still leaves a lot to be desired. And when he is being outplayed by numerous forwards from the same draft, it's a worthy conversation whether people want to hear it or not. In a redraft, right now he'd probably be the 4th, maybe fifth forward taken. Draisaitl, Bennett, Larkin, and possibly Ehlers. Murray was hired specifically to get that draft right.

....great another thing to look forward to and the shameless critiquing with one with no knowledge.

I hope Ennis is traded by Monday morning to boot. Please happen.

 

[ZZamboni]

I think you might have missed the most obvious thing:

San Jose. Dallas. St. Louis. Dallas.

Going on a 4 game losing streak and not looking stellar shouldn't exactly be a surprise.

I'm certainly not surprised they struggled.

 

[Moskau]

I guess I have been reading the wrong forum, because I barely see Reinhart getting criticism on the Sabres board. Eichel can lack intensity in his own end but he has at least shown dynamic offensive ability. For example, virtually all of his goals were his own creation. Eichel has definitely been on a tier above Sam.

You and Stokes must have went to the same School that taught being dynamic means betting more effective. I believe it's the same school where Bryan Little failed and Tyler Ennis was valedictorian.

 

[Snippit]

You and Stokes must have went to the same School that taught being dynamic means betting more effective. I believe it's the same school where Bryan Little failed and Tyler Ennis was valedictorian.

Err...being dynamic is a good quality to have in any player.

 

[joshjull]

But our struggles aren't just related to player usage.

It's player usage combined with players just not playing well.

The TWO forwards that are playing well (ROR, Reinhart).....it appears as if Bylsma is trying to use them to spur other players' games. If Bylsma is still trying to fit Gionta and Moulson with ROR in February.....and Gio and MM are still underwhelming, then I'm really worried.

But right now, I'm not.

When are some of you going to grasp those things go hand in hand.

One example of many ---> Matt Moulson should be on a line getting heavy O-zone starts and not getting much, if any, defensive responsibility. Bylsma uses ROR as his primary defensive center and Girgs as the secondary option. Moulson has played on the wing with one of those two since Game 5 of the season. This is stupid on two fronts 1) Moulson does little to help his center with their defensive responsibilities 2) Since he's not a great possession player, his center has to carry that load as well. So basically ROR and Girgs have had to drag Mouslon around while they handle things defensively and try and create offense. Now if another strong possession or defensive player was on the line it wouldn't be too bad. But there isn't since Gionta has been with Moulson for some time now.

Basically Bylsma's usage of Moulson is not remotely one that sets him up to succeed. Plus it makes his center's job tougher since he's been on the primary and secondary defensive lines for some time now.

 

[Zman5778]

When are some of you going to grasp those things go hand in hand.

Dude.

You quoted me.

I JUST SAID THAT IT'S A COMBINATION. Ya know...going hand in hand?